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Thread: How do you choose?
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2008-04-25, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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How do you choose?
Okay, I admit it, I've never played a wizard. I'm still largely a newb at this, and I was waiting to learn more before I started a caster. I've played a warlock before, though that's not the same experience. Now, the big thing that always confused me is that you have four spells of each level, each day, at the higher levels. You pick them at the start of the day, when you still have no idea what you're going to do that day. How do you pick what spells to prepare from your infinite library of potential?
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2008-04-25, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- Koth
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Re: How do you choose?
Very few people actually have no idea what they're going to be doing during the day.
So, uh, I guess your premise is wrong, and it is indeed possible to plan ahead. In fact, the ability to plan ahead with the help of divinations is part of the whole "wizards are incredibly powerful and adaptable" thing.
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2008-04-25, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- N. California
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Re: How do you choose?
Divinations. Ask questions, get answers, plan accordingly.
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Ok... dispel magic... disrupt undead... maybe a locate object for those pesky phylacteries...Last edited by Townopolis; 2008-04-25 at 04:02 PM.
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2008-04-25, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: How do you choose?
OK, here's the deal.
Get one good Will Save controlling spell.
Get one good Fort Save controlling spell.
Get one good Reflex Save controlling spell.
Get one good no Save controlling spell for emergencies.
Get one Orb spell for damage dealing.
Get flight, invisibility and wind wall.
???
Profit.
Celerity, Foresight and Shapechange are also recommended.I use black for sarcasm.
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2008-04-25, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
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- On my back, in my heart
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Re: How do you choose?
Looking through the entire divination school, I don't see anything that allows you see the future short of foresight. Lots of things to see the present, which isn't often very useful in six hours. And you can't scry every inch of the road ahead, you don't have that many spell slots. Granted, you can check out he BBEG's layer ahead of time, but that's no good if he's sending agents out to catch you on the road.
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Current Projects:
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Spoiler
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2008-04-25, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- Tallahassee, Florida
Re: How do you choose?
One thing you can take advantage of is being able to prepare spell slots without actually memorizing a spell within them. (Pg 178, bottom left paragraph under Spell Selection and Preparation)
In this fashion, you can leave one or more spell slots 'open' and memorize an important spell when you need it. This leaves you to memorize combat spells in the other slots.The easy I do before breakfast,
The difficult I do all day long,
The impossible achieved during the workweek,
Miracles performed when possible.
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2008-04-25, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
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Re: How do you choose?
Well, there are usually some hints of the sort of thing you'll be encountering that day. If you're poking around the south pole, unless you have a really weird DM you're not going to meet any fire elementals.
There are usually a few spells that you can prepare that are multi-purpose - good in many different situations. If you really have no idea what you'll be facing, prepare these. Things like Magic Missile and Mage Armor work practically all the time against practically any foe. Feather Fall is another good one to have prepared - you never know when you're going to get thrown out a window. Fly and Invisibility when you're high enough level to get them, for similar reasons.
General rules: spells with no saving throws are awesome. Save-or-suck (like Sleep) are great. Spells that deal damage to the foe directly usually aren't that great. While blowing stuff up with fireballs can be satisfying, that's not where the Wizard's real strength lies. Wizard is a tactician. He manipulates the battlefield to his advantage. Spells that hinder movement, cause status ailments, dispel others' magic, and prevent others from attacking you are the sorts of spells the savvy wizard prepares often.
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2008-04-25, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Knoxville, TN
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Re: How do you choose?
Scrolls, wands, rods, staves, potions, and other (semi)disposable items are also very helpful. Particularly scrolls, cuz you can pretend you scribed them yourself, and thus don't have to pay as much.
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2008-04-25, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: How do you choose?
Take a peek at the DM's notes while he's not looking.
Seriously though, as it has been stated before, there are a few spells that work well in almost any situation. I rarely play mages (just not my cup of tea) but when I do, I usually pick a few spells to use consistently then a few other spells that I think might come in handy in that day. Usually I guess wrong... but that's what I do.
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2008-04-25, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: How do you choose?
Looking through the entire divination school, I don't see anything that allows you see the future short of foresight. Lots of things to see the present, which isn't often very useful in six hours. And you can't scry every inch of the road ahead, you don't have that many spell slots.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
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Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2008-04-25, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Iowa, United States
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Re: How do you choose?
Pick spells that can be used in a variety of situations. Grease, Spider Climb, Fly, etc.
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2008-04-25, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: How do you choose?
Edited slightly.
Scrolls and wands are an indispensable part of a wizard's arsenal. And you get Scribe Scroll for free. Wands are better, as they can be used more than once, but they require a feat to craft yourself.
Staves aren't that useful since they come prepackaged so you might be paying extra for a spell you'll never use, and rods don't usually emulate spells. Potions are good, but unless you're a Master Alchemist or some other obscure prestige class, the spell levels are too low to be useful in the long run (except for fly and invisibility, and possibly alter shape if you're an outsider).I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2008-04-25, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: How do you choose?
Also important: You have way more then 4 spells per level every day.
You better have at least +1 from Int on all your levels. Specialization is pretty common. You should really be getting 2-4 slots extra from Int.
So you are actually looking at about 8-9 low level slots, and 5-7 of your higher level slots.
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2008-04-25, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Belgrade, Serbia
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Re: How do you choose?
Well, actually it's not WAY more than 4 spell slots per level of the spell, since you can never have 4 spell slots of your highest spell level. Example, my 9th lvl wizard (with 24 int) has:
0 - 4
1st - 6
2nd - 6
3rd - 5
4th - 3
5th - 2
Which is 4.4 per spell level... Not much different than what he said...
My opinion is, even if you don't know what you're facing (even though you should), prepare some defensive buffs, some party buffs, one or two getaway spells, no save spells, etc etc...Last edited by Gorbash; 2008-04-25 at 06:34 PM.
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2008-04-25, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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2008-04-25, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Belgrade, Serbia
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Re: How do you choose?
Well, yeah, but on average it's less than that. Both mine and your characters are overpowered, but that's another story Did you craft that HoI +6?
But... Just how can you have 28 int by lvl 10? Even with the assumption that you have base 18, which means by 8th lvl it's gonna be 20, and +6 Headband of Intellect it's 26...? Some non-core race with +2 on int?Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2008-04-25, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- DC area
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Re: How do you choose?
Core grey elf, perhaps? Besides that, I'm not sure.
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2008-04-25, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: How do you choose?
you should have an idea of what you will be required to do that day. for example, if you are in a dungeon, you would want spells that can help you kill things. pick your favorite ones that will help you achieve this goal. you want to have different sets of spells for different areas.
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2008-04-25, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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- KEEE nosh AAAh, Wisconsin
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Re: How do you choose?
18 int + 2 Grey Elf + 6 HoI + 1 lvl 4 ability boost + 1 lvl 8 Ability boost = 28 Int, and that's without aging the character.
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2008-04-25, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: How do you choose?
No, neither or our characters are overpowered. They are both very very far from overpowered.
No I didn't craft the Headband of Intellect, because a +4 is less then half the wealth of a 9th level character. And a +6 is under half the WBL of a 10th level character.
An 18 (possible racial +2) 4th and 8th into Int, and the appropriate Headband is a basic Duh! every time. That's the assumed level, not overpowered in the least. You should have 5-7 of your lower level slots as soon as they reach the maximum four per level. You should never have less then 2 of your highest,but usually around 3-5. This is th most basic and simple of builds.
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2008-04-26, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: How do you choose?
I am a bad DM. I looked at that sentence and immediately came up with a plot idea. A tribe of fire elementals could rule the South Pole. Think about it. They'd be permanent heat sources, valuable beyond measure. Also, you could melt ice with them. Handy for sculpting.
As far as high primary spellcasting stats, I can get 24 at first level without magic items or much difficulty. I think there's one int +4 race with +0 LA, but I might be hallucinating. I'm sure there's a +2, anyway. With +2, it's only 22.
So 18, +2 racial, Spellcasting Prodigy lets you treat it as +2, 22 at first level. 4th and 8th level and a HoI+6 makes 30 int at level 10. Hey presto.Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-04-26 at 12:14 AM.
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2008-04-26, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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- NYC
Re: How do you choose?
Last edited by JaxGaret; 2008-04-26 at 12:20 AM.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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2008-04-26, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Belgrade, Serbia
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Re: How do you choose?
Well, they're not overpowered in a sense they're not Incantatrix/MotAO/IotSV/Random-overpowered-class/ but we all know that wizards by themselves are overpowered, so that's what I meant when I said we're overpowered. I'm actually making an effort not to be overpowered, it's too easy.
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2008-04-26, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How do you choose?
Just to try to forestall the argument, CoV doesn't acknowledge wizards as being overpowered. He's well aware that they're the most powerful base class, no question, but playing and optimizing a wizard is, in his view, exactly as powerful as a PC should be (Similarly, optimizing a Druid or Cleric is what you're /supposed/ to do.) At least, that's the read I've gotten off him.
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2008-04-26, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Belgrade, Serbia
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Re: How do you choose?
Well... Non optimized wizard is more powerful than optimized fighter, not to mention an optimized wizard. That's all I'm saying, and that's what everyone and their mother knows by now, what argument are you talking about?
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2008-04-26, 05:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: How do you choose?
For spells per day, let's go with the most flexible of specialists. The Focused Specialist (Transmutation). Ban Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy. And yes, Transmutation really IS that flexible.
Assume Starting int 18, +2 from levels, +4 from item, total: 24 int.
Base slots for a level 9 wizard:
4/4/4/3/2/1
Add in Specialist:
4+1/4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1
Add in Focused Spec:
3+3/3+3/3+3/2+3/1+3/0+3
Add in Int Bonus:
3+3/5+3/5+3/4+3/2+3/1+3
Now, the final list looks like this:
Level 0: 6 spells
Level 1: 8 spells
Level 2: 8 spells
Level 3: 7 spells
Level 4: 5 spells
Level 5: 4 spells
Spells Memorized (all pulled from SRD):
Level 5: Baleful Polymorph, Telekinesis, Overland Flight, Cloudkill
Level 4: Polymorph x2, Stone Shape, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog
Level 3: Blink, Fly, Haste, Slow, Dispel Magic x2, Displacement
Level 2: Fox's Cunning x2, Alter Self, Blur, Knock, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Glitterdust
Level 1: Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Jump, Mage Armor x2, Alarm, Shield x2
Level 0: Flavor to taste.
Now, what's that mean? From levels 1-6, an average of 6.4 spells. Without focused specialist, you'll get an average of 5.4 spells per level. In that case, you want to get back either necromancy or enchantment (I prefer necromancy).
You'll also find, as core spells go, that's a very flexible list. Good for boosting allies. Good for taking out troublesome opponents. Lacks a reflex save, but the Tentacles more than make up for that.
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2008-04-26, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: How do you choose?
Hint: if you see lots of melting ice and pools of water at the South Pole, something very hot is afoot...Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2008-04-26, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: How do you choose?
The argument that she is attempting to forestall is that of relative power levels.
A Wizard 20 is pretty much my basis for comparison and balance. This means, Druid 20, Cleric X/PrCs Y, and highly optimized other classes are the classes I expect, and a simple Wizard is by no means overpowered. Incatatrix? Maybe. Planar Shepard? Probably. Wizard? No.