dwarf vs half orc

[Jayngfet]

Why are the races in the phb so imbalanced, for example...


Dwarves are: resistant to poison and magic, can notice carefully hidden doors, his harder against orcs and goblinoids, dodge giants despite being so slow, and can do anything with a rock, and can see in the dark.

A half orc: counts as an orc and can see in the dark.

To add insult to injury, that dwarf gets a bonus when fighting the half orc, this isn't even taking into account those pluses and minuses to mental stats.

Why the hell did wotc make half orcs so damned bad, at least the other underpowered races aren't expected to be played regularly.

[de-trick]

because every adventuring group needs a dwarf

[Smiley_]

I haven't played in an adventuring party with a dwarf for a long time.

but maybe WotC really likes short, hairy men...

I would either up thier CHA score so it breaks even, or maybe leave the mental stats and give them an extra feat. That might help.

[tyckspoon]

Because the original developers thought a bonus to Strength was just about the most powerful thing they could possibly give a race. Seriously. If you happen to have a 3.0 DMG around, look for the bit about making up new races; there should be a bit about the Half-Orc in there as an example of a physically powerful race.

[Jayngfet]

Because the original developers thought a bonus to Strength was just about the most powerful thing they could possibly give a race. Seriously. If you happen to have a 3.0 DMG around, look for the bit about making up new races; there should be a bit about the Half-Orc in there as an example of a physically powerful race.

dide, I could name five things in the core books that are stronger than half orcs, and they look like stick men.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

WotC is run by idiots. The Dwarf is far better than the Half-Orc for playing any class. At all. WotC horrendously misjudged how effective Str (to-hit, damage) was v. Con (HP, fort). That left the Half-Orc unplayable, and the Dwarf one of the best choices for any class that doesn't use Cha.

[monty]

Use a homebrew version. That's what I do. For instance, I'm currently playing a goblin using stats from the site in my sig.

[Townopolis]

Agreed with the homebrew, I made:

Orc (I usually nix halfbreeds and replace 1/2-orcs with full blooded ones)
+2 Str, -2 Int
Medium
+2 to Intimidate checks
+2 versus disease
Darkvision 60'
Immune to fear effects
Base Speed 40'

The fear immunity reflects my own preference for badass orcs over fodder orcs. The bonus to move speed I like because it lends a bit of extra scary to orcish raiders. Orc barbarians in medium armor will run your peasants down.

[Jayngfet]

WotC is run by idiots. The Dwarf is far better than the Half-Orc for playing any class. At all. WotC horrendously misjudged how effective Str (to-hit, damage) was v. Con (HP, fort). That left the Half-Orc unplayable, and the Dwarf one of the best choices for any class that doesn't use Cha.

wasn't that sort of thing supposed to be taken care of in the transition from 3.0-3.5?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

wasn't that sort of thing supposed to be taken care of in the transition from 3.0-3.5?

And people wonder why I'm not going to buy 4.0.

[Nohwl]

whats the best race in the core books?

[tyckspoon]

dide, I could name five things in the core books that are stronger than half orcs, and they look like stick men.

Well, yeah. I didn't say they were right. These are the same people who wrote 3.0's Haste and presumably thought it was balanced, after all.

whats the best race in the core books?

Human or Dwarf if you don't have any special use for the extra feat (and don't need Cha.) Gnome is excellent for certain things where it benefits you to be Small and if you're going to be casting a lot of illusions.

[Dhavaer]

whats the best race in the core books?

Depends on what class you want it for. Human, halfling, gnome or dwarf are the usual suspects, though.

[Crow T. Robot]

I love playing half-orcs, but D&D made that a problematic position.

I have to say that the GURPS half orc was far more fair then the D&D one. Hell, one could argue that the GURPS orc is better to play and they are a disadvantage.

Which in the hands of a semi intelligent player can be spun into wonderfully dangerous things.

And Burning Wheel makes orcs so kick ass that you may need to import new asses to be kicked. Ok, they are prone to berzerker rage and 90% of them are abject cowards.

[Crow T. Robot]

Double Post. Mea Culpa.

[JaxGaret]

Replace Half-Orc with Orc stats.

It's an easy fix. Still not as strong as the other PHB races, but at least they get that +4 Str bonus.

[Jayngfet]

Replace Half-Orc with Orc stats.

It's an easy fix. Still not as strong as the other PHB races, but at least they get that +4 Str bonus.

then what do you do with orcs?

[monty]

then what do you do with orcs?

Give them dwarf stats?

[Collin152]

then what do you do with orcs?

There are no orcs.
The myth that Half-Orcs hve orcish heritage? Utter posh.

[monty]

There are no orcs.
The myth that Half-Orcs hve orcish heritage? Utter posh.

So orcs are like lings then?

[JaxGaret]

then what do you do with orcs?

You have several options:

You can give them +8 Str, Powerful Build, and +1 LA.

You can leave them as is, and say that Orcish traits completely overpower Human traits when crossbred.

You can make every Orc have three levels in the Orc Paragon class, whereas Half-Orcs can take class levels at level 1. That differentiates them nicely, it's sort of like giving Orcs three RHD.

[Roderick_BR]

The orcs are the 3rd edition version of AD&D halflings.
I mean, you have a -1 to Str (and in AD&D, not being able to get 18/something means you sucked as a fighter). Being a cleric gave you more or less what a human got, but you couldn't get high strength anyway. Only thing you could be was a thief, with his dozens of rogue skill bonuses.
They got fairly enjoyable at 3rd edition.

The orc fix I did for my friend was to keep the +2 to str, and -2 to char. Yeah, they are like tall dwarves Didn't knew what else to give it. Bonus to fear and diseases is a good idea.