Need The Real Deal with Truenaming!

[Gaijin Guy Jim]

Ok, bought the TOM, loved the concepts of each one (especially trunamers-love languages, and power word spells), But Im not very good at technical stuff -not DM material by FAR!, and now I find out that pretty much evey experianced player hates Truenamers-and for good reason! Unbalanced for their disavantage! So...my point...how do I fix it? Is it just best to have a DM who understands the problem with the class allow custom rules on deciding their DC for their truename checks? Any help would be appreciated. Love the concept-already spent the money, and it would be great to have it work at higher levels...

[Solo]

Grab items to boost your skill check, grab the truespeech thing that gives you a bonus on truenaming checks, and take a 1 level dip in Exemplar from CAdv.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

IIRC, the DC is 2xHD+15, and the skill is based off of Int. At level one then, you need to make a DC 17 check. 4 (ranks)+3 (Int)+3 (Feat) still is a 35% chance of failure. At higher levels, as monster HD advance faster than their CR, the checks get harder, not easier, plus the doubling screws any legitimate progression of the skill. You have to find a way of artificially boosting it to obscene amounts just to stay even. Get an item of +5 ASAP, and continue to upgrade it. Boost Int at every opportunity. Take the boosting feats, and have the Bard or Cleric cast something to give you a bonus to skill checks. If legal, get someone else to drop a rank in it and Aid Another you out of combat.

Or just get a houserule.

[EvilElitest]

I wish it could be balanced somehow.
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[Starbuck_II]

Ok, bought the TOM, loved the concepts of each one (especially trunamers-love languages, and power word spells), But Im not very good at technical stuff -not DM material by FAR!, and now I find out that pretty much evey experianced player hates Truenamers-and for good reason! Unbalanced for their disavantage! So...my point...how do I fix it? Is it just best to have a DM who understands the problem with the class allow custom rules on deciding their DC for their truename checks? Any help would be appreciated. Love the concept-already spent the money, and it would be great to have it work at higher levels...

1. Take out the personal true name to affect self raises DC. That is stupid that you have a harder time affecting yourself. Now you have Flat +4 to affect self.
Now you give Truenamer +1 enhancement bonus to Truename every Truenamer level (now he doesn't need amulet as a crutch).

2. Now suggest every truenamer get Quicken Truename.
3. Suggest every Truenamer gets Universal Aptitude.

Now a breakdown of rounds:
Round 1: Quicken on self Universal Aptitude. This should work reasonably well if good Int +max rank Truename.
Now you can actually use your powers to affect others.

Round 2: Do whatever you like.

By level 20, you should have 30 Int if trying to raise Int (5 inherent, +6 enhancment to Int item, 5 Level with starting 14 Int). Since 14 isn't that high (16 would be high and focused), anyone should be able to do it.

So 10 bonus from Int +20 Class + 23 Ranks=53 ability to Truename. +4 to affect self so 57.
DC to affect self: 55. So easily make it.

[Solo]

Giving a truenamer half it's class level as a bonus to truenaming wouldn't be too bad.

[Vortling]

Talk your DM into letting you have one of these. Take a good look at the "invest skill ranks" part. It let's you have a bonus equal to your skill ranks in a skill. With 4 skill points from your class + extra skill points from your high Int you should be able to afford it. Cheesy as all heck but you're somewhat effective.

[CthulhuM]

The problem with truenaming isn't really the DCs. I mean, yes, those are annoying, but you can get around the problem easily enough once you can afford an amulet with a decent bonus on it.

The problem with truenaming is that once you've done all that and worked your skill up to the point where you rarely if ever fail a check... you still suck. You can't do damage worth anything, you can't heal worth anything, and your buffs, debuffs, battlefield control and utility powers are still significantly worse than a spellcaster's. Your single advantage is the fact that your utterances can be used many times per day, and that's mitigated by the fact that, once you've used one once or twice, you'll start accumulating a decent chance of failing your check to use it again (also, the party will probably have to stop and rest when the casters are out of spells anyway, so the fact that you're still good to go will generally be irrelevant).

If you want to make use of the flavor of truenaming, without the disappointment of actually being a truenamer, I suggest looking into the fiendbinder class (from the truenaming section in ToM). It has interesting flavor, and its abilities are actually quite useful - plus, you get to be an actual spellcaster on the side.

[Gaijin Guy Jim]

Thanks for all the replies, reading through them all now...

I would like to prevent multiclassing, but with the unbalances on its own I can see the neccessity of it...

1. Take out the personal true name to affect self raises DC. That is stupid that you have a harder time affecting yourself. Now you have Flat +4 to affect self.
Now you give Truenamer +1 enhancement bonus to Truename every Truenamer level (now he doesn't need amulet as a crutch).

2. Now suggest every truenamer get Quicken Truename.
3. Suggest every Truenamer gets Universal Aptitude.

Now a breakdown of rounds:
Round 1: Quicken on self Universal Aptitude. This should work reasonably well if good Int +max rank Truename.
Now you can actually use your powers to affect others.

Round 2: Do whatever you like.

By level 20, you should have 30 Int if trying to raise Int (5 inherent, +6 enhancment to Int item, 5 Level with starting 14 Int). Since 14 isn't that high (16 would be high and focused), anyone should be able to do it.

So 10 bonus from Int +20 Class + 23 Ranks=53 ability to Truename. +4 to affect self so 57.
DC to affect self: 55. So easily make it.

This sounds good as well, so your saying that the suggestions are houserules that I should ask the DM for? Would make things easier this way...

The problem with truenaming isn't really the DCs. I mean, yes, those are annoying, but you can get around the problem easily enough once you can afford an amulet with a decent bonus on it...................................If you want to make use of the flavor of truenaming, without the disappointment of actually being a truenamer, I suggest looking into the fiendbinder class (from the truenaming section in ToM). It has interesting flavor, and its abilities are actually quite useful - plus, you get to be an actual spellcaster on the side.

Always an option, but what do you think of the other prestige classes that are more good-aligned? Like the Brimestone Speakers?

[Swooper]

If you want to make use of the flavor of truenaming, without the disappointment of actually being a truenamer, I suggest looking into the fiendbinder class (from the truenaming section in ToM). It has interesting flavor, and its abilities are actually quite useful - plus, you get to be an actual spellcaster on the side.

Or you could just, you know, refluff a wizard. Just call your spellbook a truenaming dictionary (or whatever) and emphasise the vocal components. There. You're a truenamer that works.

[lord_khaine]

Or you could just, you know, refluff a wizard. Just call your spellbook a truenaming dictionary (or whatever) and emphasise the vocal components. There. You're a truenamer that works.

actualy you are a truenamer that works a little to well, they were suposed to be sligtly toned down compared to full casters.

[Kasanip]

I was always curious to try the truenaming path with an Archivest character.

Does anyone know a list of spells that would mimic the idea of "Truenaming" besides the Power Word set?

[Gaijin Guy Jim]

Or you could just, you know, refluff a wizard. Just call your spellbook a truenaming dictionary (or whatever) and emphasise the vocal components. There. You're a truenamer that works.

Thats always an option, but your sort of missing the point of the thread, trying to make the most of TOM which I have already bought. Besides the fact that I would still need to change a lot to make a wizard a truenamer, I would also just be wasting money on the book, so ideas that still make use of the book is what Im really hoping for.

[CthulhuM]

Always an option, but what do you think of the other prestige classes that are more good-aligned? Like the Brimestone Speakers?

Brimstone speaker isn't great, but it's not terrible. I mean, you're still a spellcaster, at least, and the heavenly entreaty abilities are pretty decent (or at least the greater one is), and the tongue of fire, while underwhelming, has the advantage of being supernatural - so you can use it without worrying about AoOs or SR.

Maybe ask your DM if you can get 7/10s casting (like the fiendbinder, which has much more powerful class features anyway) instead of 6/10s.

[Gaijin Guy Jim]

Brimstone speaker isn't great, but it's not terrible. I mean, you're still a spellcaster, at least, and the heavenly entreaty abilities are pretty decent (or at least the greater one is), and the tongue of fire, while underwhelming, has the advantage of being supernatural - so you can use it without worrying about AoOs or SR.

Maybe ask your DM if you can get 7/10s casting (like the fiendbinder, which has much more powerful class features anyway) instead of 6/10s.

Good advice, So its an ok PrC, but without a little tweak, Fiendbinder is just inherently stronger-eh? Ok! It would be nice if they had just made a complete opposite of the Fiendbinder class-like a Celetial Truefriend or some such thing (heh I actually like the sound of that name...)

Oh, and guys, I appreciate all the replies-they really are helping!

[EvilElitest]

Good advice, So its an ok PrC, but without a little tweak, Fiendbinder is just inherently stronger-eh? Ok! It would be nice if they had just made a complete opposite of the Fiendbinder class-like a Celetial Truefriend or some such thing (heh I actually like the sound of that name...)

Oh, and guys, I appreciate all the replies-they really are helping!

No problem, good luck. I've always rather like these guys
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EE