Melee Shifter fun

[Llewelyn]

I'm working on a backup character idea for an upcoming campaign. Most base splatbooks are allowed, not sure on the setting-specific books since it's a custom setting. Tome of Magic and ToB are outright Nos, and so is Incarnum. Flaws are right out, but obviously UA class variants/alt features are in. One idea I've been toying with is a purely melee shifter, using Wildshape Ranger and MoMF as a base. I'm also trying to avoid XP penalties, and I don't know how long the campaign would run so I'm looking at up through 20 to be safe.

So far my thoughts are:
Ninja 3/Wildshape Ranger 5/Daggerspell Shaper 2/MoMF 10
Wis to AC, dagger enchantments to claws. Can take Able Learner to be a secondary skill monkey. Limited in changing in battle though.

Catfolk Scout 3/Wildshape Ranger 5/Daggerspell Shaper 2/MoMF 9
Same as above, except I'd be trading out Able Learner for Catfolk Pounce, taking Swift Hunter, and charge-skirmish-pouncing across the battlefield.

Wildshape Ranger 5/Warshaper 5/MoMF 10
fairly basic, can change forms at will during the duration to match enemy weaknesses, but only has one use of Wildshape until level 10, so I'm not sure how effective it'd be at lower levels

Ninja 1-3/Wildshape Ranger 5(or 6)/Warshaper 5/MoMF 7(or 9)
The number ranges represent various amounts of Ninja, Ranger, or MoMF to balance things out. Gives the Wis to AC and skillmonkey roles,and I can take Dragon Wildshape to make up for the lost MoMF level, but I'm not sure how useful the Elemental forms would be since Warshaper grants some of the immunities itself.

Any thoughts on which would be more effective, both early and later(since we are starting at low levels)? Any suggestions for feats beyond the required ones(and Dragon Wildshape)?

[arkol]

Why would you get catfolk pounce if you can wildshape into something that has it? Or is it one of those things you don't get when you wildshape?

[Llewelyn]

In that build, it'd be so I can apply pounce on forms that don't normally get it. Also I can use it before I get Wildshape for skirmish charges at lower levels. All the other versions would probably be human wiht ABle Learner, except perhaps the basic Ranger/Warshaper one.

[SadisticFishing]

Shifter Barbarian 4/Fighter 4/Weretouched Master 5 (Tiger)/Fist of the Forest 3/Warshaper 4.

Not in that order. I don't remember the feats, except the one that makes you two sizes bigger for damage when raging and shifting.

In the end, you are Wolverine. Your Str/Dex/Con are RIDICULOUS, with Steadfast Determination your saves are ridiculous, your AC is ridiculous - and you attack a LOT every round.

[Llewelyn]

Looks interesting, but I can't use Shifter. I'm trying to stay away from setting-specific stuff, and this DM has a dislike of the Eberron-specific stuff especially. That kills the Weretouched master right there.

Ideally I want to do something with Wildshape Ranger and MoMF, it's just the details that are in question, and how the need to try and stay viable throughout the entire progression affects that.

[SadisticFishing]

Why not just go pure druid? It's ridiculously good. :D

[dukeh016]

I would recommend comparing MoMF with Shifter (MotW). I personally don't like MoMF because of the small number of shifting choices. Extraordinary abilities, on the other hand, are great. But Shifter gets you undead and outsider, to name a couple. Plus the final form gives you free shift every turn as a move action with no AoO. Obviously one over the other is personal preference, so this is nothing more than my two cents.

Regards,
Duke

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Warshaper. Any meleer who can should get at least 4 levels of that. It's Complete Warrior, and either the first or second level gives you +4 Str, +4 Con while not in your native form.

Oh, and it's full BAB.

[RTGoodman]

Warshaper. Any meleer who can should get at least 4 levels of that. It's Complete Warrior, and either the first or second level gives you +4 Str, +4 Con while not in your native form.

Oh, and it's full BAB.

Also, if I remember correctly, it gives you an extra natural weapon (or maybe more) and reach as long as you aren't in your original form.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Also, if I remember correctly, it gives you an extra natural weapon (or maybe more) and reach as long as you aren't in your original form.

Or a size increase to a natural weapon that stacks with INA. The class is good in so many ways.

[Llewelyn]

To address everything so far:

SadisticFishing: It may be good, but the character concept is a spell-less shapeshifter, so unfortunately no druid.

dukeh016: No can do. MoMF is explicitly stated to be the 3.5 replacement for the old MotW Shifter, and this is a 3.5 game.

The rest: Yeah, Warshaper also has that level at the end that allows a wildshaper to change forms every round they want to, so you can change to a type your current opponent is weak against.

ooh, another build thought:

Ninja 1/Wildshape Ranger 5/Daggerspell Shaper 2/Warshaper 5/MoMF 7

I'd lose out on the elemental forms and I wouldn't get to the meat of the shifter until level 13, but I'd get both the dagger bonuses and the fluid shifting in the end. I'd prefer at least 2 Ninja levels for ghost step, but I can't squeeze it in without losing the multishift, the Ex abilities, or the dagger abilities.

[Keld Denar]

Try this...
WS Ranger5/MoMF2/Natur's Warrior1 (constrict)/Warshaper2/MoMF3/Wareshaper2/MoMF5

Solid WSing, nice Warshaper abilities, the NASTY constrict ability from NW for the times you want to be in a grappling form that doesn't already have constrict. Alternately, swap the 10th level of MoMF with the 5th level of Warshaper to suit.

Take a jaunt over to the CharOp forums. Someone put together a comprehensive list of EVERYTHING you can WS into with MoMF broken down by HD and minimum MoMF levels required. Excellent guide.

[Pyroconstruct]

Primeval is really, really good. Try something like:

Wildshape Ranger 5/Nature's Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/Primeval 1/Fist of the Forest 1/Warshaper +1/Primeval +8/Warshaper +1.

Primeval isn't as flexible as MoMF, but it has a huge amount of raw power. Check out the Primeval Handbook on CharOp for some ideas, but really, unless you pick a stupid primeval form it's hard to suck with it.

[Llewelyn]

Primeval does indeed look delicious, but it's the wrong sort of spice for this character.

That one level of Nature's Warrior does look interesting, and also brings a question to mind after looking at a couple of the CharOpt threads. Does MoMF add to max HD size or not, currently? One of the more recent MoMF threads(as in mid-07) mentioned a Druid 5/NW 5/MoMF 2(or 3, I forget) taking on a troll form that was 12 or 13 HD, and the only way that'd work is if MoMF added in too.

I take it though the Ninja/Daggerspell Shaper dip isn't as worthwhile as it seems? Since Wisdom is untouched by shifting, that'd give a nice AC bonus to my thinking, and the sudden strike counts as SA for qualifying for the Shaper, which adds dagger enchantments on top of the Warshaper stuff to the claws. It does drain feats a bit though, between TWF and the WF(Dagger), though TWF can be useful pre-shifting. (I'm not too worried about the 15 dex, since we're using rolled stats and the method tends to give high results. If the dex ends up not reachable though, then I'd definitely go with Nature's Warrior for sure.)