Bracers of Entangling Blast

[Talya]

Cost 2000 gp.
Effect: 3x daily, on any damaging spell you cast, you can choose to reduce the damage by 50%, and in turn entangle everyone who takes damage for 1d3 rounds, and do an additional 1 point of damage per spell level every round they are entangled.

Is it just me, or are these way too good for their cost? I mean, with a magic missile and these bracers, you can entangle 5 opponents for 1d3 rounds, no save or strength check or escape artist check, so long as you don't fail to peirce SR, it works. (And if SR's an issue, an orb will let you do the same thing to a single target.)

[Nota Biene]

Well, they seem pretty powerful to me, yeah. But I'm no expert on balance.

Where are they from?

[holywhippet]

Does it specifically say they are entangled without any ability to escape and without a reflex save? I'd have thought it would offer the same chances as a regular entangle spell.

[AmberVael]

Does it specifically say they are entangled without any ability to escape and without a reflex save? I'd have thought it would offer the same chances as a regular entangle spell.

It doesn't mention the entangle spell at all, just the status Entangled, so I don't know where you would get that from.
Anyone damaged by the spell gets auto entangled, it seems.

[Cuddly]

Wow, that's pretty brutal. Imagine slapping those babies on and opening up with an acid fog.

[Dode]

Yeah they're great, but I prefer Bracers of Arcane Freedom (Still Spell 2x a day). That way I'm never under serious threat by a grapple.

[Kizara]

Yeah they're great, but I prefer Bracers of Arcane Freedom (Still Spell 2x a day). That way I'm never under serious threat by a grapple.

I take it that said item and the OP's item are in the MIC?

[Dode]

That is correct.

[Chronos]

For comparison, the first-level psionic power Entangling Ectoplasm will also entangle a target on a touch attack, without save or SR, but for five rounds. And a Tanglefoot Bag will also entangle on a ranged touch attack roll, for 2d4 rounds, and will even work in an antimagic field.

Entangling is just plain an easy condition to inflict.

[Nebo_]

Just remember that being entangled doesn't prevent you from moving unless it's anchored to something, which this item doesn't do.

[Cuddly]

Is there a way to get damage on a ray of clumsiness?

[Stycotl]

just houserule a reflex save and you're golden.

[AmberVael]

Is there a way to get damage on a ray of clumsiness?

Yes.
Get the Snowcasting feat from Frostburn. (Add cold descriptor)
Get Ray Coning/Ray Burst. (Changes ray to an area)
Get Flash Frost. (Adds damage to area effect with the gold descriptor)
Probably get Arcane Thesis too, just so you can afford all that on one spell.

[The_Snark]

Alternatively, have sneak attack. The sneak attack dice will end up as negative energy damage, rather than more of an ability penalty.

These seem to have been based off the Entangling Exhalation feat, which allows you to do the same thing with a breath weapon.

[AmberVael]

I'm not sure that would technically work, Snark. The wording indicates that the spell itself has to do damage, so I don't think sneak attack would really apply...

[Nebo_]

just houserule a reflex save and you're golden.

Have you heard of the Oberoni Fallacy? Just because you can add a house rule, it doesn't mean the rule as written isn't overpowered.

[Cuddly]

Have you heard of the Oberoni Fallacy? Just because you can add a house rule, it doesn't mean the rule as written isn't overpowered.

....
Have you ever heard of a DM?

Honestly, these "fallacies" are getting really trite, especially for a game of make believe.

[AmberVael]

Have you heard of the Oberoni Fallacy? Just because you can add a house rule, it doesn't mean the rule as written isn't overpowered.

He never claimed they weren't overpowered, just said the method to fix them.

[GoC]

just houserule a reflex save and you're golden.

And do that for all entangling spells, abilities and items while your at it.

Cuddly:Agreed.

[The_Snark]

I'm not sure that would technically work, Snark. The wording indicates that the spell itself has to do damage, so I don't think sneak attack would really apply...

I thought I remembered reading an example somewhere that discussed what happened when using spells that deal ability damage with sneak attack, or something. Rather than dealing multiple d6s of ability damage/penalty or negative levels, you deal negative energy damage instead...

I could, however, be completely wrong on the specifics; thinking it over, it seems to me that there's no reason sneak attack would apply to spells that inflict negative levels and ability penalties. I can't seem to recall where I read the ruling in the first place, or whether it was in an actual book or a semiofficial source like the FAQ, so you're probably right.

[Douglas]

Sneak attack and weaponlike spells is addressed in detail in Complete Arcane. Spells with attack rolls that deal ability damage or energy drain get sneak attack added as negative energy damage. Spells like Ray of Enfeeblement that inflict an ability penalty do not get sneak attack at all - a penalty is not the same as damage and can neither crit, get sneak attack, nor stack with itself.

[Starbuck_II]

just houserule a reflex save and you're golden.

It isn't more powerful than a tanglefoot bag. It deals little damage. You can still cast while entangled.
You can still move.

Sure, it can affect you as easily as a tanglefoot bag, but you'd expect magic to be at least as good as mundane alchemy.

[Triaxx]

Icewind Dale 2 had arrows with a -1 damage and to hit, that entangled on a successful attack, and did so for four rounds. I think these bracers are less powerful in direct comparison, but for the stated use...

[Keld Denar]

Ummm, apply these bracers to the Numbing Sphere spell, and precede it with a Quickend Ray of Clumsiness. Drop their reflex save so they can't save vs NS, then impose entangled (-4 dex) and then the dex damage that Numbing Sphere imposes to pretty much KO anyone with an average dex score. Brutal.


Ohhhh, pop this baby on a Freezing Fog. 1/2 movement and the dex penalty from the entangled condition would make it EXTREMELY difficult to get out of the spell. The 1/2 damage isn't a huge killer, since you are only 1/2ing a single d6 (AVG 2 dmg vs AVG 3.5 dmg per round). Too bad the entangled only lasts a very short period of time. It should say 1d3 rounds OR the duration of the spell. That would cover instantaneous spells (like fireball) as well as lingering spells like Acid Arrow or the above mentioned Freezing Fog.

How does 1/2ing someone's movement work when they are only allowed 5' of movement at a time? Does that mean 5' for the price of 2 move actions? Or can your movement never be reduced to less than 5' unless you have a condition that specifically immobilizes you? What about multiple 1/2ings? What if you were in a Blinded in a Fog Cloud stacked on top of an Evards in an area of Spiked Stones? Tack on a Web? Slow? Exhaustion (via Ray or Waves)?

[Chronos]

Yes.
Get the Snowcasting feat from Frostburn. (Add cold descriptor)
Get Ray Coning/Ray Burst. (Changes ray to an area)
Get Flash Frost. (Adds damage to area effect with the gold descriptor)
Probably get Arcane Thesis too, just so you can afford all that on one spell.

Even simpler, doesn't Black Lore of Moil add a little bit of damage to any necromancy spell? Yes, it actually does something, besides providing another -1 for Arcane Thesis.

Hm, looking it up, though, it adds a material component of non-neglible cost, too. Still, it works, and is a lot simpler than Snowcasting shenanigans.

[AmberVael]

Even simpler, doesn't Black Lore of Moil add a little bit of damage to any necromancy spell? Yes, it actually does something, besides providing another -1 for Arcane Thesis.

Hm, looking it up, though, it adds a material component of non-neglible cost, too. Still, it works, and is a lot simpler than Snowcasting shenanigans.

On the other hand, you do need to have enough time (one hour) to prepare the finger bone required for each spell. It could be rather time consuming.

[Aquillion]

For reference, entangling does this:

The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

The five-way entangling magic missile is fairly nasty (nastier than a typical first level spell, though you're using a use/day item on it), but hardly overpowering.

[Talya]

I'm not complaining. I looted a pair off an enemy sorceress (whom I captured, rather than killed...and am converting into a devout follower), along with a runestaff of enchantment. It was a profitable night for me in our regular saturday campaign. I think I'll use them exclusively with magic missile. They seem useful, even at 15th level.

[FlyMolo]

Ummm, apply these bracers to the Numbing Sphere spell, and precede it with a Quickend Ray of Clumsiness. Drop their reflex save so they can't save vs NS, then impose entangled (-4 dex) and then the dex damage that Numbing Sphere imposes to pretty much KO anyone with an average dex score. Brutal.


Ohhhh, pop this baby on a Freezing Fog. 1/2 movement and the dex penalty from the entangled condition would make it EXTREMELY difficult to get out of the spell. The 1/2 damage isn't a huge killer, since you are only 1/2ing a single d6 (AVG 2 dmg vs AVG 3.5 dmg per round). Too bad the entangled only lasts a very short period of time. It should say 1d3 rounds OR the duration of the spell. That would cover instantaneous spells (like fireball) as well as lingering spells like Acid Arrow or the above mentioned Freezing Fog.

How does 1/2ing someone's movement work when they are only allowed 5' of movement at a time? Does that mean 5' for the price of 2 move actions? Or can your movement never be reduced to less than 5' unless you have a condition that specifically immobilizes you? What about multiple 1/2ings? What if you were in a Blinded in a Fog Cloud stacked on top of an Evards in an area of Spiked Stones? Tack on a Web? Slow? Exhaustion (via Ray or Waves)?

You can always take a fullround action to move 5 feet, no matter how many halvings of your speed there are. Multiple halvings halve each time, unlike the usual rule for multiples. So 15 feet, then 5, then zero. You can still stagger 5' as a fullround though. But I dunno about 5' steps.

[Cuddly]

I'm not complaining. I looted a pair off an enemy sorceress (whom I captured, rather than killed...and am converting into a devout follower), along with a runestaff of enchantment. It was a profitable night for me in our regular saturday campaign. I think I'll use them exclusively with magic missile. They seem useful, even at 15th level.

Does your character have vow of nudity? Was it a SEXAY conversion?