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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default So, just WTH can we discuss?

    So we can't have miko threads with flaming and such.

    We can't have v's gender threads without people getting whiney.

    Ditto for MitD threads.

    And for OotS 4e threads.

    Can't do organ harvesting anymore with threats, warnings, bans, etc.

    So, just out of curiosity, WTH can we discuss without getting flames, warned or banned? Between users willing to haul out the flamethrowers every time someone tries a new discussion of an old topic and trigger happy mods that seem to be looking for excuses to warn/ban people I wonder at times what is safe to discuss anymore...

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Starting a plainly inflamatory thread isn't a sure fire way to get mods back on your side, either.

    Look, I don't think anyone would mind if the 4E threads were limited to, oh, once per 2 weeks or more? At least let the old 4E thread die to the 2nd or 3rd page - but people weren't even doing that. They started a new 4E thread although there was one all of 4 spots down - with the same exact topic and questions. People were not even attempting to respect the other members of the forum by *Looking* before posting.

    Secondly - really, with the 20+ 4E threads started in the past month and a half - how many more ways to say the same things are you expecting? "Will OOTS be going 4E" (Almost Unanimously NO). Infact, if you bother to try reading some of the previous threads - the responses are pretty cut&paste.

    Then there are the topics people insist on discussing although Rich Burlew, creator of the comic, settled the question long ago. No, we will never find out V's gender - and yes, Rich throws in gender specific pronouns to tease you, and No, you aren't the first one to spot/think it. MiTD threads are much the same.

    Organ harvesting doesn't even belong in the OOTS forums - as this forum is dedicated to discussing the COMIC - no more, no less. I think the Forum Staff pointed in the direction of Silly Forum Games or some such.

    Miko is, and always will be a flashpoint. The lines are drawn, and sides are taken. Once again - same discussions, same arguements, and it always degenerates to a flamewar - so the mods decided to kaibosh it before it got too intense.

    Basically - Respect the forum by browsing topics back at least 3 pages to see what's been discussed recently - I don't think anyone will object to posting in a week old thread to revive it; Threadomancy is more in the category of Months-dead. It's the complete lack of respect and thinking you shouldn't have to do this and just flood the forum with more of the same garbage as we've seen for the past several weeks/months.

    As to what can you discuss? Seems to me with every comic comes about 3-5 original threads of discussion that have little to no relation to any of the aforementioned topics.

    Hope this was of some help.
    A hypothetical question: If wasn't Asian nor a Samurai, would there be as many Miko-fans?

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    These forums have always had a rather rigid and un-fun modding atmosphere to them, same as GU Comics. Its almost inevitable that tight modding to avoid the depths of internet clamour and noise also usually destroys the heights of fun too, and the Giant does VERY much like a quiet life, so the baby goes out with the bathwater. There may be an element of corporate suits giving him the "you're represent us so keep it "professional"" pressure going on too, although if so I'd say they've sorta failed to properly grasp the nature of their customer base (Not an uncommon failing among PR flaks). In any event, its his house and not every house is a party house. C'est la vie. But its a good strip, so worst comes to the worst, just read and enjoy the strip and do most of your socialising and discussion elsewhere, like I do, and just use these forums for technical questions etc.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaVespasa View Post
    These forums have always had a rather rigid and un-fun modding atmosphere to them, same as GU Comics.
    I always thought that there was an awful lot of flaming and flame baiting going on in these forums, to be honest.. At least, ever since 07 or so. People who registered from then on seem to be much more petty and childish, although I have absolutely no clue why that is. Yet at the same time, the rules are incredibly strict. I got a serious infraction for suggesting that someone, who was going through threads and correcting everyone's spelling in multiple off-topic posts (while using terrible grammar no less) was trolling. Is the moderating here just used as a weapon by people who don't like soandso's post, or do the mods generally try to be equal?
    Last edited by Rethorn; 2008-05-05 at 10:30 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Mods on many other boards besides this one are hard on people using the "t-word." I've fallen afoul of that rule myself, but it makes sense when you think about it. If someone's trolling, report it, calling a poster out on it is just inflammatory. "Mini-modding" is frowned on just about everywhere.

    And no offense, guys, but organ harvesting deserved to get the axe. It lost whatever humor value it might have had after like, the second post.
    If loving makes me Lawful Evil, then I don't wanna be Neutral Good!

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Roland St. Jude's Avatar

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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    ...I wonder at times what is safe to discuss anymore...
    I'm a bit baffled by this post. What is it that you want to discuss and what do you mean "safe"?

    If you mean safe from warnings/infractions, you can discuss any topic except those explicitly prohibited in the rules (real world religion/politics, comic posting timing, criminal activities, etc.) as long as you do so in a manner that doesn't violate our rules on flaming. Threads on MitD, V's gender, etc., are all permitted, though there should only be one at a time. Multiple threads on the exact same topic should be reported and will be merged or redirected.

    If you mean safe from flaming, that should be every thread. We don't allow flaming here, and what we consider flaming is well-explained in the Forum Rules. Every thread should be relatively safe from that. If you see any flaming, please report it. Usually, we can make the appropriate warnings and scrubbings and keep the thread on track. Occasionally, infractions are required and even more rarely threads need to be locked.

    If you mean safe from whining, we don't really regulate that. One person's whining is another person's genuine complaint.

    The "no organ harvesting" announcement is nothing more than a reminder about a specific application of pre-existing rules. It's meant to increase what can be discussed not reduce it. While the joke seemed funny and harmless to those doing it, it comes off as very violent and harsh to new posters. Like many memes this one got out of control. New additions to our ranks don't know that MitD's true nature or V's gender are common topics. While they should look at the last couple pages and see what's been said recently, some don't know how to (or that they ought to) do that. So, as a community, should we virtually vivisect them or simply redirect them? One makes them stop posting and possibly stop visiting, the other lets them join the conversation already in progress.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2008-05-06 at 12:05 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Extinguisher's Avatar

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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    I personally think that it stems mostly for forums and such that work at such a high pace that things keep coming and going, and you need to re-create topics to keep the discussion. So either they come from a place where it's almost impossible to go back, because new threads keep coming in, or the back pages are covered in old discussions. Either way, it causes this multiple thread topic thing.

    I also think it's because the rules are a little confusing on the topic. No thread necromancy, but you should use an existing thread. And then we get into, what is thread necromancy? Is it just posting in a really old topic, or if you post something relavent to the discussion, if it more like Raise Dead?

    Miko threads, that's a different thing entirely. Abandon all hope, ye who enter there.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Sheriff in the Playground Administrator
     
    Roland St. Jude's Avatar

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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Thread Necromancy is exactly what the Forum Rules says:

    Thread Necromancy
    Bringing a thread back from ďthe dead.Ē If a thread has fallen to page three and hasnít been posted in for a month and a half, donít post to it. Start a new topic if you want to discuss the subject.
    If something is on page 3 or farther back and is more than a month and half old, please make a new thread rather than posting in the old one. You can, of course, link to the old thread. But don't post in any old thread that meets those two criteria.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2008-05-06 at 12:33 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hop Goblin View Post
    Organ harvesting doesn't even belong in the OOTS forums - as this forum is dedicated to discussing the COMIC - no more, no less. I think the Forum Staff pointed in the direction of Silly Forum Games or some such.
    This little sentence struck an old nerve with me, and reminded me of the place where I started internetting. You may have heard of it; it was kind of a big deal when it closed a little while back. It was called the Nintendo NSider forums. Spare me the laughter, this is relevant.

    The mods there were ridiculously strict, or tried to be anyway. According to them, NSider was a place for nintendo-related discussion, and nothing else. Seeing as how that forum was a part of NOA's website, that was a reasonable thing to ask of the users. But reasonable isn't always what's fair, or what's good, or what makes sense.

    That community had well over 100k members. One hundred thousand people. That is a very large forum. And with that many people, discussions tend to get off-topic. There's no use trying to stop it, it just happens. But for some reason, off-topic discussions were considered bad... why though? Why does an online public forum have to be limited to one topic? Organization is one thing, but I see no reason to require a public community to follow one overall topic.

    Over time the mods became increasingly annoyed about all the off-topic discussions popping up. It wasn't Nintendo-related anymore, and they decided this was a bad thing. So basically they just started amputating parts of the community. Roleplaying board? Gone. Official chat threads? Gone. And as they cut these pieces off, major community members left, and took large groups with them. 'twasn't pretty, and by the time it was finished the forum was basically a pile of !mapS and n00bs. In essence, the forum died because the moderators refused- REFUSED! -to let the community be about anything but Nintendo.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hop Goblin View Post
    Organ harvesting doesn't even belong in the OOTS forums - as this forum is dedicated to discussing the COMIC - no more, no less. I think the Forum Staff pointed in the direction of Silly Forum Games or some such.
    This sentence makes me worry. Are you/we/they refusing to let this place be about anything but OotS? At first thought it seems reasonable for the GitP forums to be about GitP, but when you go back and examine that thought, I have to ask... why? What's wrong with letting a community just be whatever community is ends up being?

    Look at the forums for huge well-known webcomics, like Penny Arcade, Sluggy Freelance, or Bob and George. They, for the most part, aren't that much about their actual comics anymore, and who's complaining? They're all excellent communities, and big ones at that.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make here (and I know it's not quite related to the thread topic) is... why do we HAVE to be all about OotS? This can be an amazing community even if it's a little off topic, or a lot off topic.

    I ask you, what is the most active forum on the intertubes? I don't know for sure which one takes the #1 spot, but I know Gaia is one of them. Do you know what Gaia is about? Basically nothing. You can discuss pretty much anything there, ANYTHING. Is it a coincidence that the discuss-anything-forum has about 12 million registered users, while the comic-only forum has 27 thousand? Granted, we don't want to be exactly like Gaia, because Gaia is a n00b-hole. But to say that it's not a great community is foolishness.

    And Rich? A bigger, activer, freer forum will result in more readers, which means more $$$ and fame for you. Think about that one.


    Long story short:

    A free public forum where you can discuss anything will almost always be better than a free public forum where you're supposed to mainly discuss one thing. Teh edn.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rapp View Post

    Long story short:

    A free public forum where you can discuss anything will almost always be better than a free public forum where you're supposed to mainly discuss one thing. Teh edn.
    I think the previous poster was referring to the OOTS subsection specifically, not the whole forum. There are plenty of discussions going on in giantitp that have nought to do with OOTS, but they are in their own subsections.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rapp View Post
    A free public forum where you can discuss anything will almost always be better than a free public forum where you're supposed to mainly discuss one thing. Teh edn.
    ...headdesk...

    what exactly do you think, the Media Discussions, Erfworld, Town, SMBG, Homebrew Gaming, etc. etc. etc. forums are for?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Haruspex and Silkenfist apparently explained more eloquently than I - Yes, the OOTS subsection of the forum (or also just -forum-) is to be just about OOTS, the comic and things directly related.

    It's like being a bloke and walking into the women's bathroom. Should you just let a bloke be a bloke and do his thing? Or are there rules in place for a reason.

    But for some reason, off-topic discussions were considered bad... why though? Why does an online public forum have to be limited to one topic? Organization is one thing, but I see no reason to require a public community to follow one overall topic.
    Primarily this is due to thread hi-jacking. Say you and I have a row in a Miko thread. Either the moderator shuts it down or the topic sways away from the exact branch we diverged down. So here comes a MiTD thread - and you and I post in it, but segeway back into the Miko row. It is also highly disrespectful to the OP who asked a question or some such and that we pretty much said "you know? I'm not even going to dignify you with attention - so in the meantime, heres something Completely different". And that's where the Organ farming stuff started - because the community of posters got tired of the blatant disrespect of the OP by ignoring the preceeding threads (Seriously, man, like 4 threads down on the page), and started their own - exact same thread. It was a bit of vigilantism, but eh, fun while it lasted. At least noone cried "NOOB!"

    There are rules for polite society, even internet society. Though in the age of lolcats and rickrolling, that those rules might be a little forgotten. You go into someone's house, you obey the rules. We are, effectively, in Rich's (And the mods) house. There are rules. I'll try my best (though, admittedly, skate the edge at times) to not but my feet on their coffee table just because I have some Anarchist ideals.

    Oh, and as a side note - Yeah, Nintendo has always been nazi-ish when it comes to discussing anything non-Nintendo. I was a subscriber to Nintendo Power for like 10 years (actually, I was one of the few that had a subscription to the Nintendo Fun Club mag before it turned into NP). If you read the articles there, for about 10 years or so - nary a mention of Sega, Sony, MS, etc. It was only towards the end of My run with NP that they did bring up comparisons between Nintendo's products and the competitors - but only in a petty, childish, "My dad's better than your dad" sort of way.
    A hypothetical question: If wasn't Asian nor a Samurai, would there be as many Miko-fans?

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    So we can't have miko threads with flaming and such.
    Flaming on Miko threads are caused by fanboys idiocy or trolls willing to prove, where it's unfeasible, that Miko was create with the sole role of heating Roy's bed. Not a forum admins responsability.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    We can't have v's gender threads without people getting whiney.
    There is a thread, actually live and kicking, on the topic. On the other hand, opening thread with childlikeness like "V kicked a ball so he must be male OMFG I so rule!" are, comprehensibly, frowned over.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    Ditto for MitD threads.
    You means the over two dozen stating that MitD is a Snare piece, even where it's showed differently in SotD?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    And for OotS 4e threads.
    As 4e is NOT going to play any role in OotS, probably that part of the forum is not the right place to discuss. And netherless, I followed enough discussion on hypotheticals rule changes in OotS universe, even in polite terms.
    There are other discussion board, in this same forum, where 4e is discussed with much more detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    Can't do organ harvesting anymore with threats, warnings, bans, etc.
    Sorry that someone spoiled your fun about insulting and threatening people, as opposite to educate them. I'd like to explain how a polite forum is several times better that a trolled and flamed one, but instead I'll get you in the sleep and cut your throat, after having you witness me firing your dog and kicking the living crap out of your beloved one on a videotape. Much better, don't you agree? (I'm got to get a ban for this, but was worthy)

    Quote Originally Posted by ABB View Post
    So, just out of curiosity, WTH can we discuss without getting flames, warned or banned?
    Wouldn't a better question be "HOW can we discuss without getting flames, warned or banned?"
    Because you know, the answer is...
    ... read the forum, avoid bringing to life dead threads, and being overally polite and correct.

    Laurentio

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Well...you can try discussing things like... characters development, literary techniques (and the Giant does use them. Chekhov's Gun), tropes and subversions, ect. ect. ect. ect.

    Really? This board's pretty lax. I've said some stuff on here that would push a few mods' buttons in other forums, I'm sure.

    Just...yeah. There are other things to discuss about the comic. >_<
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaVespasa View Post
    There may be an element of corporate suits giving him the "you're represent us so keep it "professional"" pressure going on too, although if so I'd say they've sorta failed to properly grasp the nature of their customer base (Not an uncommon failing among PR flaks).


    Do tell -- what "corporate suits" might care?
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: So, just WTH can we discuss?

    Gorbash Kazdar: Just adding in some specifics before locking, as the question has been answered. The Forum Staff post in question is a specific clarification that the organ harvesting meme is in violation of existing rules as both thread derailment, spam, and borderline flaming/trolling. It's as rude and unwelcoming to new members as shouting "Noob!" would be, and everyone should remember that we were all new members at some point. Certainly point them towards the pertinent active thread - politely - or the forum rules, but hijacking a thread with the organ harvesting or a similar meme is not something that's going to be condoned.

    Outside of the specifically disallowed topics, the GitP boards provide places for a variety of topics. We just ask that you keep each individual thread on track for its stated topic, and that you start new threads in the appropriate section.

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