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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Like many gaming groups, mine is planning to gear up into 4E with a 1st-level party. Of course, one of our number insists on playing a Bard, despite the fact that no such character exists in the up-and-coming PHB. The DM is going along with it, and I'm sort of curious how it's going to go mechanically.

    Have any of you had thoughts on how you would set up a non-represented class from 3.5 (Bard, Druid, etc.)? Are you considering home-brewing it just for kicks, or is it better to you to stick to the available classes?

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Personally, I will stick to the default. There's too little time to learn the system to start homebrewing. That bard will probably be grossly over or underpowered, for example. Much better to fluff up a Warlord. Maybe, after a splatbook or two comes out and we have an idea, I'll try brewing.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    I think my entire extended group of D&D players will be happy with the 8 already included, and the multiclass combinations therein. I don't think any of them would play a Bard if they had any other choice, really.

    However, given why this person of yours want to play a Bard, there are probably some multiclass things you could do to make a makeshift one.

    If they want to be the quick-footed thief-ish person who also casts spells, then Rogue/Wizard or Rogue/Fey-Pact Warlock.

    If they want to be the guy who stands in the back, singing, buffing, and throwing spells, then Tactical Warlord/Wizard would work (buy a lute or whatever). If the Commander's Strike power previewed the other day is any indication, then a Tactical Warlord might have many options that don't require them to be in the front lines, while still being a Leader.

    It's too early to tell for sure, but those would be my guesses that don't involve homebrewing.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    purepolarpanzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    None. The classes they have come out with look pretty good, and I won't know enough to homebrew for a while. Really, if i feel the barbarian, druid, or bard need I'll just change fluff and roleplay a fighter, caster, or combination well.
    The Bear is Back.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Yeah, I agree with Xefas. We had a person who wanted to play a druid, but we're going to go with either sorcerer or fey-pact warlock - same backstory, different crunch.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Moff Chumley's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    I think that fluff-changing and multiclassing in 3.5 core can encompass amy character concept with a little bit of effort and maybe a minor rule tweak, and I don't see how 4e can possibly be different.
    Avatar by Kris on a Stick

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
    Yeah, I agree with Xefas. We had a person who wanted to play a druid, but we're going to go with either sorcerer or fey-pact warlock - same backstory, different crunch.
    Honestly, I foresee the Homebrew forums churning out most of the classes we would need within a very short amount of time.

    If there isn't a functioning Druid out from Fax_Celestis by July 6th, I'll eat my hat.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Everyman's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Tell the "bard" he/she should play a Warlord, and multiclass some rogue in for flavor (sneakiness, performing arts). This should provide a character that is somewhat similiar to the 3.5 bard, based on what I've read. Either that, or Warlord/Wizard (with illusion powers).

    I would seriously caution your DM about allowing any homebrew into a game that you are playing for the first time. Yes, you've played D&D before. However, this isn't 3.5. You've got action points, healing surges and different powers and abilities to consider. Whatever your player comes up with isn't likely to mesh well the new mechanics. Perhaps a month or two after its release someone will make a decent bard class, but I wouldn't recommend building new material until someone understands the principles behind the new rules.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamTheCleric's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Inspirational Warlord with multiclass feats into Wizard maybe?
    Last edited by SamTheCleric; 2008-05-10 at 12:58 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    If it's a big thing for this player, you could try something like having them ditch one or two trained skills in exchange for the ability to choose a power from a magical class every so often. That'd probably end up feeling reasonably like a 3e bard. Keeping in mind that the only things I know about the system are based on the online previews, I think that this wouldn't upset balance.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Bards are easy, just take a Warlord, use a Charisma oriented build, emphasize nondirect powers (like the one that gives another attack), and multiclass to either Wizard for cantrips, Cleric for heals, or Rogue for skill monkery.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Retired Mod in the Playground Retired Moderator
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Honestly, I foresee the Homebrew forums churning out most of the classes we would need within a very short amount of time.

    If there isn't a functioning Druid out from Fax_Celestis by July 6th, I'll eat my hat.
    I just might have to hold you to that.

    Seriously, though, I think on your very first campaign, it's probably best to use existing classes and features to create an approximation of a Bard.

    If your player is dead set on playing something with "Bard" on the class entry of the character sheet, I'd say it depends on how much prep time you have. If you have a few days between getting your core rulebooks and your first session, you might be able to develop at least the Heroic tier progression so your player has something to work with, but he should be warned that such a class would be a tentative work in progress.

    I was actually wondering what to do with a 4e Bard the other day. An Leader with an Arcane power source would probably be the best translation of 3e's Bard, but I was toying with the idea of making Music or Art its own power source. I think it's got some interesting possibilities....

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    It is very probable that Bards will be Arcane Leaders, and Druids will be Divine Controllers, assuming they don't get power from Nature.

    I suspect that all Divine and/or Leader classes will get abilities that let them heal others, with Clerics being best as they are both.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    skywalker's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    If there isn't a functioning Druid out from Fax_Celestis by July 6th, I'll eat my hat.
    Where the hell is Fax Celestis?

    Did I miss a memo?
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Heck, once I get comfortable with the rules I'll be churning out home brews as fast as I can, and I'm sure most of the other homebrewers will as well.

    Looking at what we know so far, feats and abilities, will of course be fairly easy to make, as should paragon paths and epic destinies (they have a predefined spread of abilities). On the other hand, new core classes will probably be exceedingly difficult to create, especially on your own, due largely to the fact that every new base class will need a complete set of abilities from 1 to 30, not to mention class features, feats, paragon paths, ect, ect.

    At least until we all start understanding the ins and outs (and balance) of 4e quite well, I imagine very few good base classes will be made.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    KIDS's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    I've been thinking of a Bard as well and came to the conclusion that Warlord with Arcane Training should work just as fine, giving me all the actual abilities of a bard and more. With skill system revamped, I can train a skill that I feel that fits and there is the bard. I think it's just an issue of reflavoring and letting go of the fixed idea that you must have it written under your class name.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Take a warlord, multiclass into cleric.
    Switch the power source to arcane (just a name change).

    Find all the warlord and cleric powers that are based off mental stats. Group them by stat. Pick the group that resembles the bard the most.

    If this group is not charisma, the bard switches charisma and that stat for the purposes of powers.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuincherguixe's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Quote Originally Posted by skywalker View Post
    Where the hell is Fax Celestis?

    Did I miss a memo?
    Maybe making a Druid Class?

    ... Uh, a really good Druid Class maybe?
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    If they have their hearts set on homebrewing the class, perhaps start with a reflavored Warlord and slowly tweak it as everyone gets more familiar with the game. Don't do anything extreme, just slowly switch out single powers and class features one by one.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Banned
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jothki View Post
    Don't do anything extreme, just slowly switch out single powers and class features one by one.
    Start by trading out "badass war-leader" for "prancing nancy who plays the lute at monsters in a dungeon."
    Last edited by Reel On, Love; 2008-05-12 at 01:39 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Tengu's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E: Non-PHB classes in your first campaign?

    Warlords can use axes, yes? Add cool background music to all your actions and you've got yourself a combat bard.

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