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    Default 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Original Article on Epic Destinies


    Original Article on Giants

    For those who can't login, spoiler versions:

    Epic Destinies
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    Excerpts: Epic Destinies
    4th Edition Player's Handbook

    We’ve shown you paragon paths in an earlier 4th Edition preview. This time we look all the way to your epic destiny, a concept introduced by R&D’s Bruce Cordell:

    When your character reaches 21st level, you can choose your epic destiny.

    What does that mean?

    Your epic destiny is a few things, actually. While it’s true that your epic destiny allows you to bend, break, or ignore some of the laws of the universe, an epic destiny isn’t merely about acquiring even more power. After all, you continue to gain more and more powerful class powers as you rise toward 30th level, some of which are nearly as fantastic as those your epic destiny provides.

    You see, what your epic destiny is really about is defining your place in the universe. Your epic destiny is the mythic archetype your character aspires to achieve. Once you reach 21st level, the greatness you always knew you were destined for is no longer theoretical; it is actual.

    As you continue to gain levels, working toward 30th, the challenges you take on become larger and more significant, potentially affecting nations, worlds, or even the universe itself. Thus, your epic destiny shapes your lasting impact on the campaign and helps determine how people forever afterward remember and talk about you.

    Did you defeat Atropus, the roving World Born Dead? Did you defeat the Hulks of Zoretha when they rose unlooked for in the ancient wastes? Did you stem the catastrophic tide of Pandorym when it revived enough to begin eating even the gods?

    Yes, perhaps you did.

    And once you’ve achieved so much, your epic destiny allows you a way to gracefully step aside, to make room for new generations of heroes to take up the fight. After all, your immortality is assured, whether in myth or in actuality (depending on the destiny you chose). Upon completing your epic quest, where you faced the greatest challenges of your career, your destiny describes why, after so many adventures, you finally take your leave of the mortal realm… and where you go next.
    --Bruce Cordell





    Your epic destiny describes the mythic archetype you aspire to achieve. Some characters have a clear epic destiny in mind from the moment they began adventuring, while others discover their epic destiny somewhere along the way.

    Most people don’t ever come close to achieving an epic destiny. Whether they simply failed in their journey, or whether the universe never intended them to gain such lofty heights, is unknown and unknowable.

    Your epic destiny sets you apart from such individuals—you know you’re destined for greatness and you have every opportunity to achieve it.
    Extraordinary Power

    Compared to a class or paragon path, an epic destiny grants few benefits, but those it bestows are exceptional. Certain laws of the universe work differently for you—and some don’t apply at all.

    Your race, class, path, and other character elements might define what you can do, but your epic destiny defines your place in the universe.
    Immortality

    Each epic destiny defines your lasting impact on the world or even the universe: how people forever afterward remember and talk about you.

    Some people achieve lasting fame or notoriety without achieving an epic destiny, but that’s a fleeting thing. Inevitably, those people are forgotten, lost in the murky depths of history. Your epic destiny ensures that your name and exploits live on forever.
    The End

    Perhaps most important, your epic destiny describes your character’s exit from the world at large (and more specifically, from the game) once you’ve completed your final adventure. It lays out why, after so many adventures, you finally take your leave of the mortal realm—and where you go next.
    Gaining an Epic Destiny

    Epic destiny abilities accrue from 21st to 30th level. As shown on the Character Advancement table in Chapter 2, your epic abilities pick up where paragon path benefits leave off.

    After gaining all other benefits of reaching 21st level (including class features, ability score increases, and the like), you can choose an epic destiny.

    Epic destinies are broader in scope than a class or paragon path. Though most have certain requirements to enter, even these typically apply to a wide range of characters with various backgrounds, talents, and powers.

    If you don’t choose an epic destiny at 21st level, you can choose one at any level thereafter. You retroactively gain all benefits of the epic destiny appropriate to your current level.
    Fulfilling Your Epic Destiny

    The “Immortality” feature of your destiny is not gained at 30th level. Instead, it is gained when you and your allies complete their Destiny Quest. This is described more thoroughly in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, but essentially, your Destiny Quest is the final grand adventure of the campaign, during which you face the greatest challenges of your characters’ careers.

    This quest might actually begin before 30th level (in fact, most do), but the climax of the quest can only occur after all participants have reached 30th level. Upon completing your Destiny Quest, your adventuring career—and your life as a normal mortal being—effectively ends. Your DM might give your character a little time to put affairs in order before moving on, or it can occur spontaneously upon completion of the quest. Work with your DM to determine the appropriate timing based on your character, your destiny, and the quest.

    Once you’ve completed your Destiny Quest and initiated your ascension to immortality, your character’s story has ended. He lives on in legend, but he no longer takes part in mortal events. Instead, it’s time to create a new group of adventurers and begin a new story.
    Archmage

    As the Archmage, you lay claim to being the world’s preeminent wizard.

    Prerequisite: 21st-level wizard

    Your lifelong perusal of grimoires, librams, tomes, and spellbooks has finally revealed the foundation of reality to you: Spells are each tiny portions of a larger arcane truth. Every spell is part of some far superior working, evoking just a minuscule fraction of that ultimate formula. As you continue your studies, you advance your mastery of spells so much that they begin to infuse your flesh, granting you a facility in their use undreamed of by lesser practitioners.

    You are often called to use your knowledge to defend the world from supernormal threats. Seeking ever greater enlightenment and the magical power that accompanies it, you are at times tempted by questionable relics, morally suspect spells, and ancient artifacts. Your destiny remains yours to choose—will you be archmage or archfiend?

    Immortality, of a Sort
    Archmages are an idiosyncratic lot. There’s no telling what choices the preeminent wizard of the age will make when he has completed his destiny. The following section details a path several Archmages have walked, but your path might vary.

    Arcane Seclusion: When you complete your final quest, you retreat from the world to give your full time and attention to the study of the ultimate arcane formula, the Demispell, whose hyperplanar existence encompasses all the lesser spells there ever were or ever will be.

    To aid your study, you build a sanctum sanctorum. At your option, your retreat provides you complete seclusion, and thus could take the form of a tower lost somewhere in the Elemental Chaos. However, you might desire to retain a tie to the world, and thus build a sanctum with a connection to the world. In such a case, you might found a new order of mages for which you serve as the rarely seen High Wizard. Alternatively, you might found a school of magic, for which you serve as the rarely seen headmaster.

    Regardless of your retreat’s physical form or temporal connection, your contemplation of the arcanosphere persists. As the years flow onward, your study of the fundamental, deep structure of the cosmos removes you from the normal flow of time. Eventually your material shell fades as you merge into the Demispell itself.

    Thereafter, your name becomes tied to powerful spells and rituals used by lesser wizards.

    Archmage Features
    All Archmages have the following features.

    Spell Recall (21st level): At the beginning of each day, choose one daily spell that you know (and have prepared today, if you prepare spells). You can use that spell two times that day, rather than only once.

    Arcane Spirit (24th level): Once per day, when you die, you can detach your spirit from your body. In arcane spirit form, you heal to maximum hit points and gain the insubstantial and phasing qualities. You can cast encounter spells and at-will spells while in arcane spirit form, but you can’t cast daily spells, activate magic items, or perform rituals. If you die in arcane spirit form, you’re dead.

    At the end of the encounter, after a short rest, your arcane spirit rejoins your body, if your body is still present. Your current hit point total is unchanged, but you no longer experience the other benefits and drawbacks of being in arcane spirit form.

    If your body is missing, you will need other magic to return to life, but can continue adventuring in arcane spirit form if you like.

    Archspell (30th level): Your comprehension of the ultimate arcane formula and of the spells that constitute it reaches a new threshold. Choose one daily spell that you know. You can now cast that spell as an encounter spell (rather than as a daily spell).

    Archmage Power
    Shape Magic
    Archmage Utility 26
    You reach into the ebb and flow of arcane energy and pluck a spell you have already used out of the invisible tide, instantly recalling it to memory.
    Daily
    Standard Action Personal
    Effect: You regain one arcane power you have already used.

    Be sure to return Wednesday for a look at the economy!


    Giants:
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    Giants
    4th Edition Monster Manual

    In today’s preview, we look at 4th Edition’s giants, with R&D’s Jennifer Clarke Wilkes offering the following introduction to their backstory:

    As a staple of fantasy, giants are instantly recognizable to any player: big, often brutish creatures that look like people, wielding enormous clubs or axes. They make great opponents at any tier of play, and we naturally wanted to keep them in 4th Edition.

    However, giants as a group had some problems. Many giants of previous editions suffered from being too similar to each other. Hill giants and stone giants, for example, behaved almost identically in combat and differed only in Armor Class and Intelligence (stone giant elders were a rare exception.) Yet at the same time, giants as a whole had little in common other than being good at throwing and catching rocks, and carrying around sacks filled with random junk. That’s just not enough to hang an entire creature type on.

    Later Monster Manuals introduced more interesting kinds of giants, such as the death giant, wrapped in captive souls, and the eldritch giant, a highly intelligent being that could use magic items and spells to devastating effect. The fantastic qualities of such giants made them more distinctive and challenging opponents. As part of the overall 4th Edition design philosophy, we took the best of those ideas to give giants more variety. At the same time, we decided to emphasize the more supernatural aspects of giants as a unifying factor.

    The new cosmology, rooted in a great war between the primordial first creators and the gods, offered a way to incorporate giants into the setting. Many existing giants already embodied elemental forces, such as stone, fire, and wind. The natural next step was to make them into elemental beings, the first creatures shaped by the primordials to assist them in their work. This approach actually returned giants to their Classical roots as creatures embodying natural forces. In keeping with that ancestry, titans also became an elemental race, precursors to and creators of the lesser giants. Now a titan isn’t just a big dude with a ton of spell-like powers, but a powerful leader whose nature is closely tied to an element or kind of energy.

    Having been forged in the Elemental Chaos, giants moved into other worlds. The fall of the primordials drove their creations into the planes, where they adapted to local conditions and became less closely tied to their origins. Some giants built mighty empires in the world, enslaving the dwarves in so doing. By adding this backstory to dwarves in the implied setting of the game, we were able to provide some roleplaying hooks for that race, as well as better define the roles of elemental dwarflike creatures in the setting, most notably galeb duhr and azers.

    A few, such as the death giants, embody their adopted planes more than the elements—but that heritage lives on, along with their memories of ancient power and empire. When the primordials stir, giants are naturally drawn to their side in order to fight once more for control of creation.

    Giants are hulking humanoid creatures with fundamental ties to the world, be that bedrock, uncontrollable fires, raging storms, or inevitable death. The first giants were massive titans of fire and frost, storm and stone. These giants labored under primordial lords to shape the newly forming world.

    In the eons since the first days, giants have multiplied and moved on, finding places to call their own in planes beyond the Elemental Chaos, including the Shadowfell and the Feywild, and even in the realm of their masters’ deific foes, the Astral Sea. However, giants prefer the world their labor helped create, and giants of every variety can be found upon it. Indeed, when the primordials retreated from the world, one of the first empires of that dawn era was one created by giants, and their slaves were the children of Moradin. But those heady days are long vanished.

    Giants and titans tend to lair in extreme environments, including scrublands, mountain peaks, volcanic calderas, and searing deserts. These brutal landscapes remind giants of the Elemental Chaos where their ancestors first drew breath.

    Giants as a whole answer to no particular overlord or higher power, nor are they known to cooperate among themselves. Indeed, giant clans often make war each other, though no one except giants know why they fight. However, should ever an imprisoned or lost primordial return to the world, giants of the lineage once loyal to it would obey that ancient one’s command.

    Giants have marshaled just so in past primordial awakenings. Giants have long memories and longer oral histories, and most clans await the day they can renew their claim on the world in service to an unstoppable primordial entity.
    --Jennifer Clarke Wilkes





    Earth Giant

    Creatures of stone and rock, earth giants are mean, uncouth, territorial monsters that often enslave smaller, weaker creatures.

    Earth giants live in mountainside caves, as well as valleys, rocky barrens, canyons, and foothills.
    Hill Giant
    Level 13 Brute
    Large natural humanoid (giant)
    XP 800
    Initiative +5 Senses Perception +7
    HP 159; Bloodied 79
    AC 25; Fortitude 27, Reflex 21, Will 23
    Speed 8
    MeleeGreatclub (standard; at-will) Weapon
    Reach 2; +15 vs. AC; 1d10 + 5 damage.
    MeleeSweeping Club (standard; encounter) Weapon
    The hill giant makes a greatclub attack against two Medium or smaller targets; on a hit, the target is pushed 2 squares and knocked prone.
    RangedHurl Rock (standard; at-will)
    Ranged 8/16; +15 vs. AC; 2d6 + 5 damage.
    Alignment Chaotic evil
    Languages Giant
    Skills Athletics +16
    Str 21 (+11)
    Dex 8 (+5)
    Wis 12 (+7)
    Con 19 (+10)
    Int 7 (+4)
    Cha 9 (+5)
    Equipment hide armor, greatclub
    Hill Giant Tactics

    A hill giant hurls rocks at opponents until they close to melee range, at which point it switches to using its greatclub. As soon as two smaller targets come within reach, the giant uses sweeping club to knock them prone. A hill giant is wise enough to flee if hopelessly outmatched.
    Earth Titan
    Level 16 Elite Brute
    Huge elemental humanoid (earth, giant)
    XP 2,800
    Initiative +7Senses Perception +9
    HP 384; Bloodied 192
    AC 31; Fortitude 33, Reflex 27, Will 28
    Immune petrification
    Saving Throws +2
    Speed 6
    Action Points 1
    MeleeSlam (standard; at-will)
    Reach 3; +20 vs. AC; 2d10 + 6 damage.
    MeleeDouble Attack (standard; at-will)
    The earth titan makes two slam attacks.
    RangedHurl Rock (standard; at-will)
    Ranged 20; +18 vs. Reflex; 2d8 + 6 damage, and the target is dazed (save ends).
    Alignment Chaotic evil
    Languages Giant, Primordial
    Skills Athletics +19
    Str 23 (+14)
    Dex 8 (+7)
    Wis 12 (+9)
    Con 22 (+14)
    Int 11 (+8)
    Cha 13 (+9)
    Earth Titan Tactics

    An earth titan hurls rocks at foes until they close to melee, at which point it pounds them with its stony fists, spending its action point to use earth shock. Unlike their hill giants cousins, earth titans stand their ground even when faced with a losing battle.
    Earth Giant Lore

    A character knows the following information with a successful Arcana check.

    DC 20: Earth giants are the most brutish of giantkind. They inhabit badlands, deserts, and canyons, though lesser earth giants (such as hill giants) often gather in high mountain valleys and along mountain passes.

    DC 25: Many of the dwarves who were enslaved by the earth giants were transformed as galeb duhrs. Some of them continue to serve earth giants, while others escaped and view giants (and earth giants in particular) as bitter enemies.

    Encounter Groups

    Earth giants associate with other giants, as well as with galeb duhrs and other monstrous and savage humanoids.

    Level 13 Encounter (XP 4,000)

    * 3 hill giants (level 13 brute)
    * 1 displacer beast packlord (level 13 elite skirmisher)

    Level 17 Encounter (XP 7,800)

    * 1 earth titan (level 16 elite brute)
    * 2 hill giants (level 13 brute)
    * 2 war trolls (level 14 soldier)
    * 4 ogre bludgeoneers (level 16 minion)


    Edit: My opinion to get the discussion rolling:
    The epic destiny article, taken by itself is somewhat disappointing as it only previews a single destiny, though with the 3.5 article they posted a while ago, it helps flesh out the idea of epic destinies.

    The giants article hints at a classical (as in Ancient Greeks) origin story (or if you're a fan of the argument, they did something similar with the Warcraft creation story 4e=MOREPIG, lol) for the generic campaign scenario. Something before the gods (elementals in this case) create world, gods come into being, kick the crap out of elementals and shape the world to be hospitable for life because Yes-men make poor worshipers are aren't nearly as interesting as mortals.
    Last edited by ShadowSiege; 2008-05-12 at 01:41 AM. Reason: Updated to include Giants preview
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    The epic destiny for Archmage didn't seem all that epic.

    Is it just me missing it, or does the Earth Titan not actually have any power called Earth Shock (which it's detailed using)?

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicled View Post
    The epic destiny for Archmage didn't seem all that epic.

    Is it just me missing it, or does the Earth Titan not actually have any power called Earth Shock (which it's detailed using)?
    The archmage's epic destiny is a bit boring if you don't go the "found a university" route. "He just disappeared one day" is kinda boring. Getting spells named after you though is quite epic.

    And you are correct that earth shock isn't listed.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Now, we all know that I am not the kind of person who thinks 4E is turning into WoW (I do think however, that D&D could learn a few things from video games and MMORPGs... but that's beside the point.) But the Archmage's ability to raise up and cast spells after dying made me think of this Priest talent in WoW which lets you do the same thing.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    It's more like he becomes a ghost until he can rejoin his body. Spirit of Redemption (the talent you're talking about) is a 10 second period where you're still able to cast spells as a semi-angelic being while everyone mocks you for sucking and wiping the raid. Not really in the same class. One makes your character into a ghost version of himself that can make his body rise from "only mostly dead" status after the battle, the other makes your character a corpse with a giant "I screwed up" sign over it.
    Last edited by ShadowSiege; 2008-05-12 at 02:00 AM.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    No, they don't mock you. They curse you because you're /still/ tossing heals out in the Arena :P

    Also, people die in Raids.

    Anyway, I like the "When you Die" power for Archmages.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Okay, let's look at these two things...

    Archspell (30th level): Your comprehension of the ultimate arcane formula and of the spells that constitute it reaches a new threshold. Choose one daily spell that you know. You can now cast that spell as an encounter spell (rather than as a daily spell).

    Archmage Power
    Shape Magic
    Archmage Utility 26
    You reach into the ebb and flow of arcane energy and pluck a spell you have already used out of the invisible tide, instantly recalling it to memory.
    Daily
    Standard Action Personal
    Effect: You regain one arcane power you have already used.


    So.... you can make Shape Magic your daily-encounter ability, and now you can cast ANY OTHER DAILY as a per-encounter ability. That seems pretty fun... Though you do waste actions.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyserpent View Post

    So.... you can make Shape Magic your daily-encounter ability, and now you can cast ANY OTHER DAILY as a per-encounter ability. That seems pretty fun... Though you do waste actions.
    As nice a trick as that woul dbe, Shape Magic isn't a spell, so you can't do that.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowSiege View Post
    Spirit of Redemption (the talent you're talking about) is a 10 second period where you're still able to cast spells as a semi-angelic being while everyone mocks you for sucking and wiping the raid. Not really in the same class. One makes your character into a ghost version of himself that can make his body rise from "only mostly dead" status after the battle, the other makes your character a corpse with a giant "I screwed up" sign over it.
    I know what Spirit of Redemption is, I didn't say it because I wasn't sure exactly how much of my WoW-Player I wanted to show, I don't think I have room for a big banner for that. And it said the wizard could cast encounter and at will powers while in ... Archmage of Redemption or whatever, didn't it? Also I've never been mocked for having Spirit of Redemption, thanked on occasion, but never mocked.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsinger View Post
    I know what Spirit of Redemption is, I didn't say it because I wasn't sure exactly how much of my WoW-Player I wanted to show, I don't think I have room for a big banner for that. And it said the wizard could cast encounter and at will powers while in ... Archmage of Redemption or whatever, didn't it? Also I've never been mocked for having Spirit of Redemption, thanked on occasion, but never mocked.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Ok, first off, Arcane Spirit is just crying out for Monty Python refrences. "It's only a flesh wound!" "I got better." Yeah, those will be tossed around at a lot of table in the coming months. :D

    Now that that's out of the way, I like the preview, even if it is a little bland. The fluff seems more epic than the abilities, which is a little dissapointing, but I'm not going to judge until we see more Destinies and the 21-30 class/race powers.

    As for the Giants, I like that they're going back towards "classic" creation myths for them. They really didn't have any binding flavor in 3rd. I'm guessing that earth shock is some supernatural attack that displays the Titan's connection to stone, and that the other Titans will have similar abilities. Whether they left it out accidently or on purpose, I couldn't say.

    And I do like the art for the giants.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Ok, first off, Arcane Spirit is just crying out for Monty Python refrences. "It's only a flesh wound!" "I got better." Yeah, those will be tossed around at a lot of table in the coming months. :D
    Monty Python references? In my gaming group?!

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Ok, first off, Arcane Spirit is just crying out for Monty Python refrences. "It's only a flesh wound!" "I got better." Yeah, those will be tossed around at a lot of table in the coming months. :D
    Don't forget to throw in Miracle Max.

    The destiny's not too exciting, especially compared with some of their 3.5 versions. I'm not talking mechanics, because one of the things that irks me is people judging 4e mechanics by 3rd edition standards, but off the top of my head, I remember the nature-oriented destiny culminated with the ability to merge with the landscape, which I'd have loved for practically any of my druid characters. The archmage is just... somewhat better at magic. They can't do much they couldn't already do. The ghostly spirit thing is sorta neat (and the phrase "once per day when you die" got a laugh from me), but I don't really see how it's especially fitting for a mage as compared to a priest or other divine servant.

    I like the giant approach; they're taking a Norse mythology tack on it, which is definitely the most interesting historical take to giants, I think. Giants in D&D have never been interesting to me, except occasionally frost giants... which already have a Nordic take on things.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Epic Destinies: Looks like questing for immortality (in the style of OD&D's Masters/Immortals sets) is back. I'm not exactly expecting anything with the richness of "Runequest", but I hope the mechanics on offer will at least mesh well with the scope and scale of the required fluff.

    Giants: The elemental giants thing is flavourful, and was partially presaged in "Secret of Xen'drik". Shame the fluff says the WOTC writers wanted to make giants more than big "Me crush with club!" thugs, but the stats we're shown leave them as almost exactly that. They talked a good fight...

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    As nice a trick as that woul dbe, Shape Magic isn't a spell, so you can't do that.
    I seem to recall from earlier previews that all of a wizard's powers are called "spells" (and divine powers are "prayers", and martial powers are "exploits").

    Anyway. Compared to the third edition archmage, the crunch here is all rather bland. Rather than getting any cool powers, the wizard gets three flavors of "use an ability you already have once or twice extra", and one serving of essentially "double your hit point total".

    What I also don't like is that, as with paragon paths, each "epic destiny" seems specifically keyed to one particular class (or one other, if you take that cross-classing feat of which you're allowed only one). So you can't really customize a character by choosing a paragon or destiny that fits best with you.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    What I also don't like is that, as with paragon paths, each "epic destiny" seems specifically keyed to one particular class (or one other, if you take that cross-classing feat of which you're allowed only one). So you can't really customize a character by choosing a paragon or destiny that fits best with you.
    if by "each epic destiny" you mean the only one they showed us, the yes, every epic destiny named "archmage" that lets you become the Ultimate wizard requires that you be a wizard. :P If you have an epic destiny called archmage, of the 8 4e classes we have, only wizard really qualifies (warlocks...one could make an argument either way).

    They did state that most epic destinies would be broader and easier for a larger number of classes to get into. Granted, they then show one of the destinies with a narrow scope, but that shouldn't surprise you. They do silly things like that. I think we can expect that many destinies will have more of "you need to be proficient with a martial weapon" or "you must be trained in thievery" type requirements, but some destinies are really just niches of one class, and will have that reasonable requirement.
    Last edited by Larrin; 2008-05-12 at 05:30 AM.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Larrin View Post
    The did state that most epic destinies would be broader and easier for a larger number of classes to get into.
    Yes, and they said the same about paragon paths, and it turned out that instead, every paragon path was keyed to one particular class.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Yes, and they said the same about paragon paths, and it turned out that instead, every paragon path was keyed to one particular class.
    All it takes is one (multiclass) feat, and you can take another class' paragon path. Plus, there'll be multiple paths for each class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    All it takes is one (multiclass) feat, and you can take another class' paragon path. Plus, there'll be multiple paths for each class.
    There will? Got a source on that?
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    There will? Got a source on that?
    Beyond logic? I'm sure there is one. I mean, if you only had one path for each class, why not bother just having it be straight classed?

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    There will? Got a source on that?
    I can't find a direct link, but a quote from WotC_Miko:

    1) There are over 30 paragon paths in the PH.

    2) My paladin took a multiclass cleric feat so she could qualify for a cleric paragon path.


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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by bosssmiley View Post
    Giants: The elemental giants thing is flavourful, and was partially presaged in "Secret of Xen'drik". Shame the fluff says the WOTC writers wanted to make giants more than big "Me crush with club!" thugs, but the stats we're shown leave them as almost exactly that. They talked a good fight...
    Yeah, really. Cause I mean, stats aren't used for combat or anything. And you can't roleplay them at all, cause the stats are all you look at. And we havn't seen any of their other stuff, only a brief excerpt.

    Sarcasm. The other white meat.

    But seriously, if you just look at a stat block, 9/10 monsters look like thog smash. Thats what stat blocks are for- combat. Course, it the MM comes out and I'm wrong, that's one thing. But we havn't seen enough to judge on uh anything from 4th.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Fear the giants!


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    *Obligatory 4th Edition is going to suck post*

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    i gotta agree that the example immortality for the archmage seems pretty bland. however the truth is this is just another mechanic, like skill challenges, where the mechanic is only as good as the DM using it.

    they haven't stated it outright in the article but i bet its in the DMG for the destiny quest chapter. epic immortality is supposed to bleed into your other games, you see more of it in the 3.5 conversion but the idea is that your level 30 game ends and Vaarsuvius the archmage passes on, but not their legacy.

    now in your next game a spell that Vaarsuvius authored or favored should be named after him/her. eg Vaarsuvius's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion or Vaarsuvius's true scrying. or maybe a PC or major NPC are associated with the Vaarsuvius school of arcane arts or late in the campaign the new party quests through the forgotten sanctum of Vaarsuvius.

    like a little easter egg the DM might make reference to the previous campaigns through the legacy of the former parties immortality. perhaps one of the players gains the demigod destiny and becomes available as a god for clerics to select to worship next game,

    Edit: or a previous party member becomes the final villain in the next campaign ala Diablo II.
    Last edited by Jarlax; 2008-05-12 at 07:43 AM.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    I'm not sure I like the way they predefine your life with the epic destinies. The whole thing about "this is how you leave the world and that's that". I can see many a DM refluffing that.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Noventa View Post
    I'm not sure I like the way they predefine your life with the epic destinies. The whole thing about "this is how you leave the world and that's that". I can see many a DM refluffing that.
    ah but your not predefining your life at all, you select your epic destiny 2/3 of the way into the campaign, probably selecting the one most true to your PC.

    Immortality, of a Sort
    Archmages are an idiosyncratic lot. There’s no telling what choices the preeminent wizard of the age will make when he has completed his destiny. The following section details a path several Archmages have walked, but your path might vary.
    the entry even goes so far as to remind you that your immortality is a co-operative effort between you and your DM, each entry gives examples of how your PC might bow out of mortal affairs but ultimately you have control of what happens. one brilliant example would be Dragonball Z (pretending they never came back and did GT) where the major hero doesn't ascend or reincarnate, his immortality was to pass his skills and teachings to the next generation, selecting a new champion for earth in order to ensure earths safety after he was gone.
    Last edited by Jarlax; 2008-05-12 at 07:53 AM.

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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Epic Destinies: I'm with the 'huh, archmage seems pretty bland' crowd. Nothing interesting here. Artwork is kind of weird, it's supposed to be an EPIC wizard but he looks nothing like what you'd expect one to look like. Where are all the colourful shiny magic items?

    Giants: Firstly, I love the artwork. Very nice momentum in the earth titan's slam, you almost wince and wait for it to hit you when looking at it. I like the fluff too, being Scandinavian (ok, so technically Iceland isn't a part of Scandinavia, but it's the same cultural area) myself I can relate to the elemental-giants theme easily, though the Nordic mythology had only frost giants (hrímþursar) and fire giants (eldjötnar), it all makes sense. Nothing we didn't know from Worlds & Monsters though. As for the crunch, I, like bosssmiley, am unimpressed. They talk about making giants interesting and then give them bland statblocks? No fun special abilities other than 'smash with club' and 'smash hard with club'. Though we don't know what's up with the earth shock mentioned but not shown in the Earth Titan section, and we only saw one flavour of giants - hopefully, the fire, frost and stormgiants will be more fun.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlax View Post
    one brilliant example would be Dragonball Z (pretending they never came back and did GT) where the major hero doesn't ascend or reincarnate, his immortality was to pass his skills and teachings to the next generation
    Yessirree, his immortality not at all included coming back from the dead to help fight every single big monster they faced... OR to take driving lessons.
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    Default Re: 4e Excerpts: Epic Destinies & Giants

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyserpent View Post
    Okay, let's look at these two things...

    Archspell (30th level): Your comprehension of the ultimate arcane formula and of the spells that constitute it reaches a new threshold. Choose one daily spell that you know. You can now cast that spell as an encounter spell (rather than as a daily spell).

    Archmage Power
    Shape Magic
    Archmage Utility 26
    You reach into the ebb and flow of arcane energy and pluck a spell you have already used out of the invisible tide, instantly recalling it to memory.
    Daily
    Standard Action Personal
    Effect: You regain one arcane power you have already used.


    So.... you can make Shape Magic your daily-encounter ability, and now you can cast ANY OTHER DAILY as a per-encounter ability. That seems pretty fun... Though you do waste actions.
    Doesn't work. As 'Archmage Power' is not a daily spell (even though it can't be used daily), it's a utility spell.
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