The Testing Thread

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

You want to be able to see your own creations in action, but don't have the time to start a test-game yourself. You have had your homebrew brutally PEACHed by your peers. However, there is really only one way to have your creations verified as properly balanced, and that's for it to be put in a real gaming situation.

And this is where to do that.

Yes, for the (most likely) first time ever, you can have your creations fought by/alongside real players, in a real gaming situation, or have the players test out your new class/PrC/item.
All you have to do is post a link to your creation here, and you'll have constructive feedback in 14 days, or your money back! (No promises!)

Done:

Testing:

Recruiting For Testing: Magic of Origins by dman11235 (Casting Method and 2 Base Classes)

Next In Line: Biomage by Zeta Kai (Casting Method and Base Class)
Wuxia Monk by Squash Monster (Base Class)
Cat Burglar by Bhu (Base Class)
Ttapavoiia by Stycotl (PrC)
Weapon Master by curtis (Base Class)

If for some wierd reason we ever run out of things to test, we'll get a start on Bhu's infinetly long list of Orc/Goblinoid PrC's.

RESTRICTIONS: A few things are not going to be tested, or will be tested seperately, as a different game. This would mainly include huge things, such as settings, or entire systems. As well, all submissions must be in a proper format. Read the stickied threads, they're there for a reason!

Lastly, there is a long waiting list. The quickest thing to playtest would be monsters.

[dman11235]

Me likey!

Okay, how's about a tough one to start. I'm not sure that I got the point system right for it, and I don't have anyone to playtest it with.

Magic of Origins

Really, I need both of those classes in there playtested, but not the Shifter. That one's being done by me.

Now to see if this thread actually works and takes off. You might want some more ground rules first. Primarily, format, you shouldn't accept classes not formatted at all. Also, rules should be complete for the classes. If I think of any more I'll contact you.

[Zeta Kai]

Well Gwyn, if you're up to the challenge, I haven't had time to finish putting the Bio-Mage through it's paces. I've done some low-level scenarios, & some basic power comparisons to other classes, but a full play-test by a second pair of eyes would be helpful.

[dman11235]

Question: is it just you and your groud doing the testings? Or is this just a place where people can come and say "Oh! This guy needs this playtested! Why don't we help him out?"

[watsyurname529]

I would like to submit the Races of the Horde PrC thread for play-testing. It has a lot of unique PrC's designed specifically for Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, and Orcs; although most of the time you can ignore the race requirement.

So if you play test one of the PrC's, I suggest either posting in the thread or PMing the creator.

Thanks for the help.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'll be starting with testing True Sorcerer, and the Originist.

The deal is: I'll be having several test groups; most of which is going to be on this forum, so if you want to help out playtest, it would make life great.

[jagadaishio]

I would be interested in playtesting Zeta Kai's Bio-Mage. I've wanted a chance to play it for quite a while now.

[Squash Monster]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=81

This is a monk fix I did. I'd really like to see how it holds up balance-wise. The goal was to make a class that, while not as powerful as casters, is relevant at all levels despite said casters.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'm starting a recruiting thread for any Playgrounders who wish to contribute.

Edit:Classes and PrC's will take longer to get really good feedback.

[Kizara]

I'd like to run a game with my Tome of House Rules v1.6, it should be done in about a week or 2.


It will be like a 50 page document that revises a great deal in the system (not much of the fundamentals, things like class changes and feat revisions mostly), so I don't know how viable that request is.

Tell me if you want a copy of 1.56, to address said feasibility concern.

[Bhu]

*cough* kitties in mah signature *cough*

[Stycotl]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79591

i would love to see if this guy is actually playable or not. in particular, i'd like to see if the neuroses fit in well with a campaign or not.

[curtis]

I would like to help the playtesting, and playtest my Weapon Master.

[dman11235]

I nominate this thread for sticky if it works.

[Icewalker]

I am willing to play in/run playtest fights pbp.

Also, I have some of my own stuff worth playtesting.

Also, I think we need to check the balance on most of the submissions to Swampgas, as it is going to be published.

[Szilard]

@^: I was thinking the same thing.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

If you want to help playtest, check out this thread.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

The links to the orc and goblin PrC's isn't working.

[dman11235]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75120

Try that. I assume you want the whole thread in there watsurname?

Hey Gwyn, you should really put some restrictions on this thing. I mean, I know having all of these things playtested would be awesome, but you can't do them all at once, and there are already so many that it'll take a long time to get it done. I know from my involvement that the kitty and Races of the Horde threads will involve a lot of things, and my own has a good amount that needs to get done. So...restrictions will lower the number of things that come through here in a week, and...wait, idea, how about a continuous campaign? Where things just get rotated in and out every week? That might help a little bit, you just have a level 8 and a level 18 campaign always on, and every week after a class comes here, you swap it out for a new one? Anyways, back to restrictions, if you put a minimum consent thingy on the submissions, then you'll get fewer homebrews at a time, allowing for more accurate playtesting, and more organized processing.

EDIT: I almost forgot, Bhu, but I got a chance to playtest the cat burglar and Tibbit Skirmisher. They worked out just fine. And I'll get another chance in a bit for the cat burglar.

[dman11235]

People, we need some more play testers! If your creation is in the line up, maybe you could sign up for a character or two? We only have four slots taken and two of them are by me, we need four more slots filled before we can start with the first run. Then we'll need more sign-ups for the second run, which'll be the Bio-mage, and maybe one from the Races of the Horde list (though maybe that should be done on its own? Like, incorporating it into a campaign, since it's so huge? I know that once you guys get it down to a reasonable number of things I'll be using it). I will probably sign up for a slot with the coming few runs, but we need more than just me and Gwyn doing this.

[watsyurname529]

Here's a fixed link in case anyone wants to use a PrC. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75120

I'll try to playtest something if at all possible.

[ideasmith]

Unfledged.

http://forums.rpghost.com/attachment...achmentid=2883


Edit: The words "and party experience' in the Tagalong class feature are in error and should be ignored. Thanks to dman11235 for catching this error.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Alright, I'm back from Montreal.

ideasmith, is the unfledged yours? Because it says "The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc (“Wizards”). All Rights Reserved."

[dman11235]

That's for the OGL license. However I don't recommend using that class in the testing, as it's a glorified commoner. It even has a warning that it should not be used in combat. In addition, its mechanics rely on metagame factors for non-metagame results, something that cannot happen. The tag along ability primarily speaks to this. Oh, and it did not need the OGL license, since it's not a WotC product.

[ideasmith]

However I don't recommend using that class in the testing, as it's a glorified commoner. It even has a warning that it should not be used in combat.

The class is indeed a glorified commoner - with a fun 'escape hatch'. That was kinda the idea.

In addition, its mechanics rely on metagame factors for non-metagame results, something that cannot happen. The tag along ability primarily speaks to this.

I'm not sure what your reasoning is here. Or even what you mean.

Oh, and it did not need the OGL license, since it's not a WotC product.

Actually, WotC products rarely have any OGL license. (I think Unearthed Arcana was the only one.) The OGL license is primarily for third-party products which use certain WotC intellectual property. The site I posted the Unfledged on requires the OGL license.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I'd love to help playtest any and everything that needs testing. How will this be done though? Pbp? Online tabletop?

TS

[ideasmith]

Alright, I'm back from Montreal.

ideasmith, is the unfledged yours? Because it says "The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc (“Wizards”). All Rights Reserved."

Yes, the Unfledged is mine. The OGL license belongs to WotC.

[dman11235]

@tequila: it's in the PbP forums. The OOC/Recruitment ones.

@idea: the OGL is only needed if you are dealing with WotC property that is OGL and you publish it, I believe. Since it is something you made on a forum without posting any copyrighted material, you should be fine. Oh, and everything in the SRD is OGL, so that's UA, the XPH, PHB, DMG, MM, ELH, and Deities and Demigods. And small bits from other books.

And then the things that need the OGL warning are published material that uses the OGL material. Also, copyrighting laws are confusing.

As for your class: the main ability of the class is to not be the class anymore. Thus, you cannot play test the class, as you will never actually play it. And the whole XP thing is a silly mechanic that cannot work. It makes you a higher level than the party, using the party, and not your level, as the benchmark. If it used your level it would be better, but still not for PCs. It's more of a DM tool class than anything else, and the examples you gave support this theory.

Also, would this class be fun to play? That's one thing you need to ask yourself. Another is, is every level worth taking? And another is, what is the difference between this class and class X? I cannot speak to the opinions of the masses, but I myself would hate playing this class. You're restricted to being useless until some arbitrary time at which you are no longer the class, so why be this class? Is every level worth taking? There are dead levels. These are bad. Also, I wouldn't take it past 1 since the only class feature is "become another class". The difference between playing this and playing any other class? Nothing. You can feign being useless with any class.

Those are the biggest problems facing that class. Also, read On the Philosophy of Class Design. Everyone here should before submitting their classes for play testing.

@Gwyn: How about this: allow one system per game, and two items, two feats per game, you control the monsters (or current DM controls them) in different campaigns specifically design for this: generic party of sneak, tank, cleric, wizard.

[ideasmith]

@idea: the OGL is only needed if you are dealing with WotC property that is OGL and you publish it, I believe.

It is also needed if the Submission Guidelines of the website to which one is submitting the material require it.

As for your class: the main ability of the class is to not be the class anymore. Thus, you cannot play test the class, as you will never actually play it.

I certainly hope to play this class someday.

And the whole XP thing is a silly mechanic that cannot work. It makes you a higher level than the party, using the party, and not your level, as the benchmark.

All of the unfledged's class features are based on class level of the unfledged. Could you explain what wording led you to conclude otherwise, and why you thought this would somehow increase the unfledged's level? I always like to improve the clarity of my writing, but you have not given enough information here - I can't even tell which class feature is involved.

If it used your level it would be better, but still not for PCs. It's more of a DM tool class than anything else, and the examples you gave support this theory.

Which examples? And how do they imply that I should be prohibited from playing this class?

Also, would this class be fun to play? That's one thing you need to ask yourself.

I cannot speak to the opinions of the masses, but I myself would hate playing this class. You're restricted to being useless until some arbitrary time at which you are no longer the class, so why be this class?

Are you seriously claiming that this class shouldn't be played because some people would hate playing it? When answering this, keep in mind that some people would hate playing D&D. If you are not so claiming, then shouldn't a class be designed for players who would enjoy it?

Another is, is every level worth taking?

Is every level worth taking? There are dead levels. These are bad. Also, I wouldn't take it past 1 since the only class feature is "become another class".

Dead levels encourage use of the classes main feature. This is good. I am well aware of the standard reasons for avoiding dead levels. They don't apply to a class you aren't supposed to stick with long enough for advancement to take place.

And another is, what is the difference between this class and class X?

The difference between playing this and playing any other class? Nothing. You can feign being useless with any class.

'Feigning being useless' does change 'appropriate opposition' for the party. 'Feigning being useless' requires you to decide what your class will be right away, rather than later. Looks pretty different to me.

Those are the biggest problems facing that class. Also, read On the Philosophy of Class Design. Everyone here should before submitting their classes for play testing.

I read that article some time ago. Well before submitting this class for play testing. Good article.

[dman11235]

So what is the point of your class?

From what I can see, it's to be useless until such a time that you decide to be useful and completely get rid of the class, HD, BAB, saves, etc so you can be another class. Meaning you aren't that class anymore. So...what's the point? You can just be another class and not use any of the class features or anything until you decide that you don't want to be useless, or your character finds his hidden talent.

Now Tagalong: I was wrong, it does refer to your level. But it increases the amount of xp you gain, thus increasing your level.

The examples I speak of are the ones you give in the first paragraph.

I was not claiming that since I hated it everyone would hate it, or that no one should play it. I even said that I cannot speak to the opinions of the masses.

On the paragraph about dead levels: But the main class feature is not being the class anymore, which means that you aren't this class anymore.


So yeah, why play this class when you aren't going to play this class by using the main class feature?