Arcane Trickster in Core

[kjones]

What's the fastest way to get to Arcane Trickster, using only Core material? (Defined as SRD + the three core books). The best way I can think of is just Wizard 5/Rogue 3.

[Keld Denar]

I'd have to check the skill prereqs a sec, but I think you can get in with Rogue1/Wiz5/Assassin1, one level earlier than you can with your build. Of course, that requires you to be evil, but hey, evil is often the quickest route to where you're going!

[UglyPanda]

Assassin doesn't work. Hide and move silently are cross-class for a wizard, and there isn't a way to get them as class skills in core. That means you can't take assassin.

Opps, mind slipped.

[Azerian Kelimon]

One level of rogue makes 'em class skills bought at 2 points the rank.

[Keld Denar]

AK is right. Go check out the Horizon Tripper thread, 2nd page. I went through a pretty detailed discription with examples of the mechanics involved in multiclassing and skill rank maxiumums and costs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Rogue1/Wiz5/Assassin1 is the fastest, but Rogue3/Wiz5 is more fun, and nets you Evasion.

Just remember, Mage Hand can be used for so many socially unacceptable things: Copping feels to lifting skirts to smacking rears, then have them all blamed on whomever the bar wench was passing by at the time, causing a tavern brawl for your enjoyment (and the chaos needed to start picking pockets without being noticed).

[Jack_Simth]

Rogue1/Wiz5/Assassin1 is the fastest, but Rogue3/Wiz5 is more fun, and nets you Evasion.

Just remember, Mage Hand can be used for so many socially unacceptable things: Copping feels to lifting skirts to smacking rears, then have them all blamed on whomever the bar wench was passing by at the time, causing a tavern brawl for your enjoyment (and the chaos needed to start picking pockets without being noticed).

Catch:
Mage Hand requires the object be unattended. A womans skirt is attended.

Additionally, it only affects object - so no copping feels, smacking rears, or lifting skirts.

[Pironious]

Catch:
Additionally, it only affects object - so no copping feels, smacking rears, or lifting skirts.

There's an entirely different spell for those things.

[monty]

There's an entirely different spell for those things.

Bigby's Groping Hand?

[Keld Denar]

Power Word: Orgasm?

Book of Nymphology 4tw!

[monty]

Power Word: Orgasm?

Book of Nymphology 4tw!

Meh, I always preferred the BoEF. Much more comprehensive.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ranged Ledgermain can be used to make a Slight of Hand check at range... depending on what you're doing with it, you could achieve the same effect.

You can also use Mage Hand in conjunction with a light object (ruler/paddle) to do much the same things, but to continue that line of discussion would be straying beyond where we should really keep this discussion...

[Azerian Kelimon]

Indeed. We all know in any case that it's much easier for Psions.

[Toliudar]

A custom cantrip actually introduced by Magnus Samma in his campaign:

Vadis' Spanking Hand
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature within range
Effect: 1 hand
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates a hand composed of magical force that appears directly behind the target, strikes them smartly across the buttocks, and then promptly dissapears. This serves little real purpose outside of humiliating the target, but it does make it difficult for enemy mages to cast spells (force a concentration check if they are not already making one, increase DC by +2). Since the spell causes a loud smacking noise, and causes most subjects to yelp involuntarily, it ruins the target's attempts to remain hidden or undetected. It also has a tendency to really piss women off.

[nargbop]

Seconding Rogue3/Wizard5 because Evasion is great.
Find your DM and whine at him as hard as you can to let you take Spell Hand from Complete Arcane for the mage hand prerequisite of Arcane Trickster. Then you can do Rogue/Assassin/Arcane Trickster for lots of sneak attack and reasonable casting.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Seconding Rogue3/Wizard5 because Evasion is great.
Find your DM and whine at him as hard as you can to let you take Spell Hand from Complete Arcane for the mage hand prerequisite of Arcane Trickster. Then you can do Rogue/Assassin/Arcane Trickster for lots of sneak attack and reasonable casting.

Assassin levels would be pointless if you already qualified for Arcane Trickster, since it has it's own seperate casting system.

You've basically got two options:

1) Rogue3/Wiz5/Arcane Trickster10/Archmage 2

This is the 'spell heavy' arcane trickster. Has access to 9th level spells. You should probably pick up Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Elements as your two high arcana. It's the "I want to be a batman, but I'm still just a rogue".

2) Rogue4/Sorc6/Arcane Trickster10

This is your "Bag of Tricks Rogue". He's not a primary caster, he's a Rogue with a very nice bag of tricks, being the spells he can cast. Casts as a 16th level Sorcerer, so he can cast 8th level spells. In this case, you're not wanting to try to be Batman, you really shouldn't try as a Sorcerer anyways, but you CAN be the best darn rogue who ever lived. Don't bother learning Knock, just Wand it, and use as an excuse that they're your 'Knock-Picks'. You can still keep your sensory and stealth and party-face skills capped since they're also AT skills, and Sorc even has Bluff as a class skill. Pick up spells that you foresee using a LOT, and use them intelligently. Improved Invisibility is always a good one to pick up, get a couple of rays to sneak attack with, like Enervation and Acid Arrow (no SR makes it better for this build than Scorching Ray due to higher SA damage). Anything that lets you sneak attack your opponents, go for (like maybe a Summon Monster on down the line somewhere). You're looking primarily for Utility, although a couple of battlefield control spells couldn't hurt.

[Chronos]

Assassin levels would be pointless if you already qualified for Arcane Trickster, since it has it's own seperate casting system.

He's talking about qualifying for Arcane Trickster through Assassin. Though I'm still not sure why one would bother: If you stay in Assassin instead at that point, you get just as much sneak attack and spell progression, and more skills. And if you've already finished all ten levels of Assassin, then you can't progress your spells any further, so you'd be just as well off to finish with Rogue.

[nargbop]

The Rogue/Assassin/ArcTrickster with Spell Hand has full sneak attack progression and one of the most powerful abilities in the game : impromptu sneak attack. The ability to sneak attack someone AT ANY TIME is amazing, and the main reason I suggest it.
Without Spell Hand, you have to drop some of your sneak attack and lots of skill points to spend some levels on Sorcerer or Wizard. My suggestion was for a sneaky-stabby-scary person, who uses magic only to improve her stabbing.

[Cuddly]

Impromptu sneak attack isn't that great. Summon a monster (or 1d3) as flanking buddies. Or have the party druid do it.

[Chronos]

Or hide, or be invisible or blinking, or win surprise and initiative. None of which should be all that hard for a rogue, especially not one who can cast spells.

[Samakain]

To dredge this up and to make a small edition to the spell heavy arcane trickster suggested above, drop the 2 levels of archmage and then take some Spellwarp Sniper from the Complete Scoundrel, lets you turn any spell into a ray effect, changeable via metamagic, the actual warp into a ray adds no spell levels, spells loose area effects, but hey, SA makes up for that :D