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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Turcano View Post
    Well, most of the really nasty spells that don't allow a save are either enchantment, which are blocked by Blank Thoughts, or necromancy, which are blocked by death ward or a scarab of protection. Maw of chaos is the only real stickler.



    The build would need high saves and a high touch AC. I'm having trouble getting those up with a monk; it would be even harder to do it with another class.
    Paladin 2 or Blackguard 2 could do it. Cha bonus to saves is pretty good.

    Assume 14 cha, 10 con, 14 dex, 14 wis, 14 str, 10 int
    5 stat boosts to cha (19 cha)
    +5 cloak of resistance/ add in +6 cha
    +1 Cha Book
    +6 dex item
    +6 con item/add +6 wis

    Final stats: 26 cha, 16 con, 20 dex, 20 wis

    Before adding in a single base save to the equation, I have
    Fort: +16 (+5 cloak, +3 con, +8 cha)
    Ref: +18 (+5 cloak, +5 dex, +8 cha)
    Will: +18 (+5 cloak, +5 wis, +8 cha)

    After the save for 2 levels of paladin:
    Fort: +19, Ref +18, Will: +18

    That's WBL and 2 class levels. Go from there.

    Heck, add in monk afterwards. +5 dex, +5 wis isn't shabby for AC, add in a ring of protection +5, and you have a pretty decent touch AC (29), on top of those saves.

    Heck, if we go human, and take Paladin 2/Monk 1, and choose the following feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes (1st, human, and 3rd, respectively), we're now up to:
    Fort: +23, Ref +22, Will +22.

    Add 17 more levels, have fun kids.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-05-21 at 05:30 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Think you're up to it? Think the 3 mage slayers can take 1 mage at level 20?
    How many point buy?

    And does the Aura of Despair from Paladin of Tyranny and Blackguard stack? Same name, same effect, but from different sources.

  3. - Top - End - #633
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Paladin 2 or Blackguard 2 could do it. Cha bonus to saves is pretty good.
    Okay; adding two paladin levels and finangling the stats results in this:

    Human Paladin 2/Monk 13/Occult Slayer 5
    Medium Humanoid (Human)
    HD 18d8+2d10+80, hp 176
    Init +11; Speed 70ft./x4
    AC 39 (+8 armor, +7 Dex, +7 Wis, +5 deflection, +3 monk), touch 31, flat-footed 32
    Base Attack/Grapple +16/+18
    Full Attack +22/+22/+22/+17/+12/+7 (2d8+6, 20/x2, +4 adamantine defending ki focus gauntlets)
    SA & SQ: Armor restriction, aura of good, detect evil, smite evil, divine grace, lay on hands, AC bonus (Ex), flurry of blows (Ex), improved evasion (Ex), fast movement (Ex), still mind (Ex), ki strike (Su), slow fall 60 ft. (Ex), purity of body (Ex), wholeness of body (Su), diamond body (Su), abundant step (Su), diamond soul (Ex), quivering palm (Su), magical defense (Ex), weapon bond (Su), mind over magic (Su), vicious strike (Ex), auravision (Su), nondetection cloak (Su), blank thoughts (Ex)
    SR 23, Alignment LG
    Fort +27, Ref +27, Will +31
    Str 15 (+2), Dex 25 (+7), Con 19 (+4), Int 10 (+0), Wis 24 (+7), Cha 18 (+4)
    Skills: Balance +26, Climb +5, Escape Artist +20, Jump +37, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Listen +14, Spellcraft +7, Spot +17, Tumble +24
    Feats: Adaptable Flanker, Blind-Fight, Improved Disarm, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Pierce Magical Protection, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), Vexing Flanker

    Important Equipment: +4 adamantine defending ki focus gauntlet (x2) (150,000 gp), Bracers of armor +8 (64,000 gp), Cloak of Resistance +5 and (49,000 gp), Monk's Belt (13,000 gp), Gloves of Dexterity +6 (36,000 gp), Ring of Protection +5 (50,000 gp), Headband of Wisdom +6 (custom item) (36,000 gp), Amulet of Health +6 (36,000 gp), Manual of Gainful Exercise +2 (55,000 gp), Manual of Quickness of Action +2 (55,000 gp), Manual of Bodily Health +2 (55,000 gp), Tome of Understanding +2 (55,000 gp), stone of good luck (20,000 gp), pale green ioun stone (20,000 gp)

    Disposable Wealth: 66,000 gp
    Last edited by Turcano; 2008-05-21 at 06:04 AM.


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  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Try Hexblade 3/Monk 12, instead. You get Mettle and CHA to saves vs. spells.

    In fact, lose more monk. Screw flurry. You want room for things like Cleric 1 (Pride domain lets you not reroll nat. 1s on saves) and a Crusader dip, to get Thicket of Blades (hopefully beaitng Tumble), and combine that with a reach weapon and Stand Still or Imp. Trip.
    Get a Vest of the Iron Heart or a Warblade level for Wall of Blades, to help vs. rays.
    Last edited by Reel On, Love; 2008-05-21 at 06:06 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo View Post
    And does the Aura of Despair from Paladin of Tyranny and Blackguard stack? Same name, same effect, but from different sources.
    RAW, no. You listed the reason yourself.
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  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Actually, Dimension Door does not allow any actions to be used at all after used. Thus, if you Dimension door, or if an item Dim Door's for you, you may not flurry afterwards.
    Not true. Spoilering the spell:
    Spoiler
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    You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.

    If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

    If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

    I bolded the relevant section.

    First, the spell says you cannot take actions after your arrival. Then it spells out that you can bring others. It never spells out that those others are similarly limited. Since the word "you" is used, and not the word "anyone", only the caster cannot take actions.
    Last edited by Griffin131; 2008-05-21 at 06:26 AM. Reason: quote!=spoiler

  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin131 View Post
    Not true. Spoilering the spell:
    Spoiler
    Show
    You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.

    If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

    If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

    I bolded the relevant section.

    First, the spell says you cannot take actions after your arrival. Then it spells out that you can bring others. It never spells out that those others are similarly limited. Since the word "you" is used, and not the word "anyone", only the caster cannot take actions.
    It depends on your definition of 'using'. Does that mean 'make use of' or 'cast'

  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    I'd go for the former definition, since it makes sense rules-wise and literarily.
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  9. - Top - End - #639
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    Try Hexblade 3/Monk 12, instead. You get Mettle and CHA to saves vs. spells.

    In fact, lose more monk. Screw flurry. You want room for things like Cleric 1 (Pride domain lets you not reroll nat. 1s on saves) and a Crusader dip, to get Thicket of Blades (hopefully beaitng Tumble), and combine that with a reach weapon and Stand Still or Imp. Trip.
    Get a Vest of the Iron Heart or a Warblade level for Wall of Blades, to help vs. rays.
    I don't have access to Tome of Battle, but the rest of your advice sounds good.

    What I have so far:

    Human Hexblade 3/Monk 9/Occult Slayer 5/Cleric 1/Incarnate 2
    Medium Humanoid (Human)
    HD 15d8+5d10+80, hp 179
    Init +11; Speed 60ft./x4
    AC 39 (+8 armor, +7 Dex, +7 Wis, +5 deflection, +3 monk), touch 31, flat-footed 32
    Base Attack/Grapple +16/+19
    Full Attack +25/+20/+15/+10 (2d4+9 +1d6 vs. casters +1 Con, 19-20/x2, +5 adamantine keen wounding spiked chain)
    SA & SQ: Armor restriction, elemental affinity (air & earth) (Ex), detect imbalance (Sp), smite extremist (Su), divine grace (Su), elemental burst (Su), hexblade's curse (Su), arcane resistance (Su), mettle (Ex), spontaneous casting, restricted spells, domains (pride, X), turn undead (Su), AC bonus (Ex), flurry of blows (Ex), improved evasion (Ex), fast movement (Ex), still mind (Ex), ki strike (Su), slow fall 40 ft. (Ex), purity of body (Ex), wholeness of body, magical defense (Ex), weapon bond (Su), mind over magic (Su), vicious strike (Ex), auravision (Su), nondetection cloak (Su), blank thoughts (Ex)
    Alignment N
    Fort +28/+35, Ref +26/+33, Will +34/+41
    Str 16 (+3), Dex 24 (+7), Con 19 (+4), Int 10 (+0), Wis 24 (+7), Cha 18 (+4)
    Skills: Balance +23, Climb +6, Escape Artist +22, Jump +32, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Listen +14, Spellcraft +15, Tumble +22
    Feats: Blind-Fight, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Hold The Line, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Pierce Magical Protection, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (spiked chain)

    Important Equipment: +5 adamantine keen wounding spiked chain (133,000 gp), Bracers of armor +8 (64,000 gp), Cloak of Resistance +5 and (49,000 gp), Monk's Belt (13,000 gp), Gloves of Dexterity +6 (36,000 gp), Ring of Protection +5 (50,000 gp), Headband of Wisdom +6 (custom item) (36,000 gp), Amulet of Health +6 (36,000 gp), Manual of Gainful Exercise +2 (55,000 gp), Manual of Quickness of Action +2 (55,000 gp), Manual of Bodily Health +2 (55,000 gp), Tome of Understanding +2 (55,000 gp), stone of good luck (20,000 gp), pale green ioun stone (20,000 gp)

    Disposable Wealth: 85,000 gp
    Last edited by Turcano; 2008-05-21 at 08:49 AM.


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  10. - Top - End - #640

    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Need ToB maneuvers in a free and legal way?

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

    Here. Kindly provided by Wotc. remember that you can get a maneuver as an once per battle power with a feat, and with another feat you can get a stance from a school you already have a maneuver from.

    Ticket of blades is from Devoted spirit school if I'm not mistaken.

    Your iniator lv equals half your non ToB levels plus your ToB levels, and you need an iniator level equal to (stance/maneuver lv x2)-1 to learn it.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    His budget in his post is improperly done.

    Using his character, say at level 2, wherein you state that potions can suffice, since UMD isn't reliable yet. Of the 14 encounters, let's say 11 are combat, requiring a 50gp potion. Let's say out of combat, you use a total of 14 charges on a standard level 1 wand, also. You've now spent 560 gp in treasure. When doing those 14 encounters you get, say 2000 gp in treasure, according to the table. Let's say, at level 3, you're supposed to have an extra 1700 gp over where you started. Because you spent more in disposable income, you only have 1,440 gp over. Thus, because you blew through your WBL like a fat kid in a gingerbread house, you're 260gp behind.

    No amount of writing (cumulative) after your wand allocation will alter the fact that, if you overuse disposable items in a campaign that is played by RAW treasure dispersion (as outlined on DMG 51), you WILL fall behind in WBL. No amount of arguing, distorting the truth, or anything else will change that. It is proven mathematical fact, and any disagreement with it is wrong. No matter how you phrase that disagreement, it is wrong.

    (900 +1900 - 100) > (900 +1900 -500)

    1000 is starting wealth for a level x character.
    1900 is treasure gained over 1 level of adventuring.
    Final number represents 2 different characters who spend different amounts on disposable wealth.

    The first set of numbers represent the person who spends 100gp on disposable items, while the second represents the person who spends 500gp.

    Are you seriously trying to argue that character 2 up there should have the same amount as character 1? Are you saying that the above formula (which is mathematically sound) is wrong?

    If so, there are about 4,000 years of mathematicians that seem to disagree with you.

    While he will (most likely) fall behind WBL in actual play, that is entirely irrelevant for character creation. The rules for Creating PCs Above First Level do not take character history into account in any way. The character could have never spent a GP in their life, or have been a total wastrel, but for those rules it would have no effect on starting wealth.

    Once the character is in play, then, he is free to bankrupt himself.


    As for those mathmaticians, I'm sure that they will tell you, that just because your working is sound does not mean that it applies to the problem at hand.
    Unless Sir Giacomo et al have been secretly playing those characters since level 1, then they are Creating PCs Above First Level.
    Last edited by Roog; 2008-05-21 at 07:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    Unless Sir Giacomo et al have been secretly playing those characters since level 1, then they are Creating PCs Above First Level.
    The guide and level by level breakdown are for tips on how to progress. So, essentially, Sir Giacomo is telling everyone what their builds should look like at every level, meaning they would be played form 1-20. So his calculations are entirely relevant.

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    While he will (most likely) fall behind WBL in actual play, that is entirely irrelevant for character creation. The rules for Creating PCs Above First Level do not take character history into account in any way.
    Actually, that is very much relevant, because it means that if you take his build at level X and use it in actual play, after leveling up you will not end up with his listed build at level X+1.

    In other words, that means that the build is not suited for actual gameplay. Then again, most of us already knew that. A build that is workable at,say, level 15 but has no practical means of actually reaching that level is completely useless in any game that starts at a lower level (i.e. most games).
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    It depends on your definition of 'using'. Does that mean 'make use of' or 'cast'
    So the "you" implies anyone who is a target of this spell?

    Be careful... apply that to the next sentence.

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Here's my incomplete build

    Spoiler
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    Hexadin

    Hexblade 10/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Blackguard 3/Occult Slayer 5

    Bab: 20/15/10/5

    Base Saves:
    Fort 9
    Ref 5
    Will 11
    Cha mod x3 to saves, +3 to saves from Magical Defense, +5 Cloak of Resistance

    Skills/Ranks:
    Bluff
    Concentration
    Craft
    Diplomacy
    Handel Animal
    Heal
    Hide: 5 (10 ranks)
    Intimidate
    K. Arcana 14
    K. Nobility and Royalty
    K. Religion 2
    Profession
    Ride
    Sense Motive
    Spellcraft 20 +2 synergy


    From Hexblade:
    Greater Hexblade's Curse 3/day
    Arcane Resistance
    Mettle
    Dark Companion

    Spells:
    Expeditious Retreat
    Entropic Warding
    Phantom Threat
    Unseen Servant

    Alter Self
    Mirrow Image
    Resist Energy

    Spells/day
    1/1/
    Known:
    4/3

    From Paladin of Tyranny
    Smite Good 1/day
    Deadly Touch

    From Blackguard
    Dark Blessing
    Aura of Despair
    Smite Good 1/day
    Spells: 1/0
    Blade of Blood

    ?

    Occult Slayer:
    Magical Defense +3
    Weapon Bond 1d6
    Mind over Magic 2/day (Spell turning)
    Vicious Strike
    Auravision
    Nondetection Cloak
    Blank Thoughts

    10 Feats:
    Combat Casting
    Spell Penetration
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Improved Sunder
    Improved Initiative
    Weapon Focus
    Battle Caster [Medium]
    ?
    ?

    Items:
    760,000
    Left: 6120 (+98280?)

    Hand of Glory 8,000
    Ring of Protection +5 50,000 (Equipped)
    Ring of Spell Turning 98,280 (Maybe, maybe not)
    Ring of Telekinesis 75,000 (Equipped)
    Ring of Freedom of Movement 40,000 (Equipped)
    Ring of Feather Falling 2,200
    Handy Haversack 2,000
    Hat of Disguise 1,800
    Cloak of Resistance +5 25,000
    Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 137,500
    Winged Boots 16,000
    Belt of Magnificience +6 200,000
    Rod of Cancellation 11,000
    Rod of Negation 37,000
    Mithral Full Plate of Speed +1 Full Plate 26,500
    Scarab of Protection 38,000


    I need suggestions on two feats, some items, a weapon, and armor.
    Last edited by Solo; 2008-05-21 at 08:08 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #646
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Am I missing something... why dont you have freedom of movement? Solid Fog/Acid Fog... they tend to hurt those who don't have FoM.

  17. - Top - End - #647

    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Don't you have too many rings? Even with hand of glory you can only carry 3 total, but your inventory has 5.

  18. - Top - End - #648
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Don't you have too many rings? Even with hand of glory you can only carry 3 total, but your inventory has 5.
    The Ring of Feather Falling is for if I suddenly find myself 10000 feet up in the air and no means of flying, the ring of Spell Turning might be liquidated for money, but if I keep it, I'll use it after my Occult Slayer spell turning is used up.

  19. - Top - End - #649
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Actually, that is very much relevant, because it means that if you take his build at level X and use it in actual play, after leveling up you will not end up with his listed build at level X+1.

    In other words, that means that the build is not suited for actual gameplay. Then again, most of us already knew that. A build that is workable at,say, level 15 but has no practical means of actually reaching that level is completely useless in any game that starts at a lower level (i.e. most games).
    Sir Giacomo thinks that his build has a reasonable budget for expendables. Whether he does or not (IMO) depends on the rate that he uses those expendables in the game.
    However, he has not stated his assumptions on how he estimates a characters available wealth (rather than WBL), although he has (implictly) stated his result - that the character has standard WBL available at each level. In most level-by-level builds this would be fine, but as he uses more consumables that many characters, it comes into question for this build.
    He has also not given a estimated schedule for how he will use his consumables by level, or played the character enough to give a usefull test of the rate that consumables are used by the build.
    We could probe his WBL assumptions as Chosen_of_Vecna was attempting to do and create a consumables schedule (and then discover that it presuades him of nothing when he answers "A" to all questions).
    I suspect that his budget may balance better in actual play, where (IMO) he won't have the opportunities to expend as much of his consumables as his description of this characters tactics would suggest.

  20. - Top - End - #650
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    Sir Giacomo thinks that his build has a reasonable budget for expendables. Whether he does or not (IMO) depends on the rate that he uses those expendables in the game.
    Well, he has stated that he will be using Heroism and Splendor wands to improve his charisma for using other wands, and plans on using Healing wands, Fog wands, Enlarge wands, Holy Sword wands and some other buff wands during encounters. More importantly, without these buffs his character simply doesn't perform.

    So he has the choice of (1) being ineffective, or (2) spending a lot of cash and enough time that combat will probably be over before he finishes to buff, and then being somewhat effective.
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  21. - Top - End - #651
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    So he has the choice of (1) being ineffective, or (2) spending a lot of cash and enough time that combat will probably be over before he finishes to buff, and then being somewhat effective.
    Both those options leave him as ineffective regardless of whether he has overspent or not. Sir Giacomo would say he has a third option (3) cast the stuff he needs in the time that his style of play creates before combat; the question of budget is only important for success/failure of the build if he really does have option 3.

    I agree that getting the effect of consumables expenditure on available WBL is important, but in this situation either side presudading the other that the build succeeds/fails even with standard WBL would be an impressive accomplishment.

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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    I agree that getting the effect of consumables expenditure on available WBL is important, but in this situation either side presudading the other that the build succeeds/fails even with standard WBL would be an impressive accomplishment.
    No, that is not very impressive at all.
    It is not difficult to make a character that is effective in one combat if you have standard WBL to spend.
    You could make anything viable as long as you do not have to worry about the next encounter.
    Last edited by Lord Lorac Silvanos; 2008-05-21 at 08:57 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #653

    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    1) Talic? Why on Earth would your Wizard have only two buffs up? For starters you should have all hour/level buffs up, since those have a duration in excess of 20 hours for any level 20 Wizard.

    2) Mage Slayers: If you can get casting of second level spells, you should think about Monk levels, and then taking Asectic Mage to get Cha to AC in place of Wisdom. Then pump Charisma. Also take note of Force of Personality for Cha in place of Wis to Will saves, and Fist of the Forest.

    My build would be something like: Monk 2/Hexblade 4/Blackguard X/Fist of the Forest 1/More of the above/Occult Slayer 5.

    Maybe in the form of a Grig. So that's Cha to AC twice, Con to AC once, Cha to saves twice against spells, and for will saves.

    Ridiculous saves, huge Cha, and UMD. Then you can be an unarmed fighter/grappler of casters. Probably go Dragonborn on top of race for wings.

  24. - Top - End - #654
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Chosen_of_Vecna View Post
    1) Talic? Why on Earth would your Wizard have only two buffs up? For starters you should have all hour/level buffs up, since those have a duration in excess of 20 hours for any level 20 Wizard.

    2) Mage Slayers: If you can get casting of second level spells, you should think about Monk levels, and then taking Asectic Mage to get Cha to AC in place of Wisdom. Then pump Charisma. Also take note of Force of Personality for Cha in place of Wis to Will saves, and Fist of the Forest.

    My build would be something like: Monk 2/Hexblade 4/Blackguard X/Fist of the Forest 1/More of the above/Occult Slayer 5.

    Maybe in the form of a Grig. So that's Cha to AC twice, Con to AC once, Cha to saves twice against spells, and for will saves.

    Ridiculous saves, huge Cha, and UMD. Then you can be an unarmed fighter/grappler of casters. Probably go Dragonborn on top of race for wings.
    And we'd still lose, horribly.

  25. - Top - End - #655
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    (3) cast the stuff he needs in the time that his style of play creates before combat; the question of budget is only important for success/failure of the build if he really does have option 3.
    Since his so-called style of play (which really isn't, since he himself doesn't play characters like this either) does not "create [time] before combat" except in highly contrived and unlikely situations, that point is rather moot.
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  26. - Top - End - #656

    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Indeed. Just...Otto's.

  27. - Top - End - #657

    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    If you don't have protection from level drain yet, get it, then get something to make yourself resistant to Elemental damage (Like that spell that gave you up to 150 points of absorption to one element), so that orbs don't work.

    Maw of chaos will still call you Mary and make you wear that pink dress, though.

  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Silvanos View Post
    No, that is not very impressive at all.
    It is not difficult to make a character that is effective in one combat if you have standard WBL to spend.
    You could make anything viable as long as you do not have to worry about the next encounter.
    Anyone persuading Sir Giacomo that he is wrong about this build would be an impressive accomplishment.

    Sir Giacomo persuading those that disagree with him that he is actually right would be an impressive accomplishment.


    As for WBL, while he is overspending, I estimate that he has only overspent by ~386kGP by level 20*, and so if he reduced his total expendiure by about 25% he would be OK. But that would require him to rework is equipment list and keep this thing going for even longer.

    *By level 20 he should have ~760kGP WBL + ~231kGP excess gained weath normally assumed to be spent on consumables. At level 20 he lists ~481kGP wealth and ~896kGP cumulative consumable budget (303kGP allocated at that level specifically).

  29. - Top - End - #659
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Since his so-called style of play (which really isn't, since he himself doesn't play characters like this either) does not "create [time] before combat" except in highly contrived and unlikely situations, that point is rather moot.
    Isn't that supposedly the point of this build? He thinks that this build will have adequate time to get buffs up?

  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Default Re: Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    His budget in his post is improperly done.

    Using his character, say at level 2, wherein you state that potions can suffice, since UMD isn't reliable yet. Of the 14 encounters, let's say 11 are combat, requiring a 50gp potion. Let's say out of combat, you use a total of 14 charges on a standard level 1 wand, also. You've now spent 560 gp in treasure. When doing those 14 encounters you get, say 2000 gp in treasure, according to the table. Let's say, at level 3, you're supposed to have an extra 1700 gp over where you started. Because you spent more in disposable income, you only have 1,440 gp over. Thus, because you blew through your WBL like a fat kid in a gingerbread house, you're 260gp behind.

    No amount of writing (cumulative) after your wand allocation will alter the fact that, if you overuse disposable items in a campaign that is played by RAW treasure dispersion (as outlined on DMG 51), you WILL fall behind in WBL. No amount of arguing, distorting the truth, or anything else will change that. It is proven mathematical fact, and any disagreement with it is wrong. No matter how you phrase that disagreement, it is wrong.

    (900 +1900 - 100) > (900 +1900 -500)

    1000 is starting wealth for a level x character.
    1900 is treasure gained over 1 level of adventuring.
    Final number represents 2 different characters who spend different amounts on disposable wealth.

    The first set of numbers represent the person who spends 100gp on disposable items, while the second represents the person who spends 500gp.

    Are you seriously trying to argue that character 2 up there should have the same amount as character 1? Are you saying that the above formula (which is mathematically sound) is wrong?

    If so, there are about 4,000 years of mathematicians that seem to disagree with you.
    No, I'm saying that he does end up behind WBL. That's why he only has 400K-ish gp of permanent items. He doesn't spend 300k-ish on wands at level 20, he spends it on wands over the entire build. So his actual wealth at level 20 ends up being 600k-ish. Obviously, this is all assuming his listed budget is correct, which it may well not be.
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