Optimising the Feat Rogue

[Human Paragon 3]

I am always drawn to the Feat Rogue varient on the SRD, but then when I start to think it over, I say to myself, self, what is the point of all those fighter feats if you have medium BAB? What's the rogue's niche if he doesn't have sneak attack?

What you're left with is trap finding, evasion, and uncanny dodge, but those things, while useful, do not an optimised character make.

But there's got to be some build that abuses the rogues abilities and the fighter feats, right? It has to be good for something other than a 2-4 level dip.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Fighter template is only good for a 2-4 level dip, why would Feat Rogue be any different? It's good if you're desperate for feats, and don't want to lose skill points, but it's not especially optimizable.

[Kurald Galain]

I would instead go for the Sneak Attack fighter. Getting feats is nothing special, since every character gets feats (that, incidentally, is why the fighter is such a low-powered class)

[Frosty]

The feat Rogue is still a rogue. That means you get skillpoints...and you have UMD as a class skill. At higher levels, you can UMD Divine Power to get a Fighter BAB, and now you're a Fighter...with feats as normal...and you've got skills and trapfinding and such! You can also UMD Polymorph to beocme a Hydra so you can do 10 times the sneak attack

[Jimp]

I guess you could load up on Martial Study and Incarnum feats and be a skill monkey that swapped sneak attacking for nifty tricks. It's nowhere near what people consider optimal though.
Could be darn nifty though.

[Signmaker]

The feat Rogue is still a rogue. That means you get skillpoints...and you have UMD as a class skill. At higher levels, you can UMD Divine Power to get a Fighter BAB, and now you're a Fighter...with feats as normal...and you've got skills and trapfinding and such! You can also UMD Polymorph to beocme a Hydra so you can do 10 times the sneak attack

Gee, that's more abusive than my "I hit your touch AC when you're flatfooted with two daggers for massive sneak attack" rogue thrower...

[Azerian Kelimon]

Pshaw. I drain you of 30 STR a round, render you unable of casting spells, you move at half speed, and I slept with your girlfriend (Okay, last part was hyperbole ).

Ambush feats crush everything else.

[Zephyros]

Well Azerian yes, but as I recall Ambush Feats have a prerequisite of sneak attack dmg dice that you give up when using them, and the feat rogue fails to satisfy that prerequisite. If only u could swap feat with SA rogue as ACF.

[Reel On, Love]

If I ever run a Gestalt Fighter/Rogue, I'll make it a Sneak Attack Fighter/Feat Rogue, just for kicks.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Well Azerian yes, but as I recall Ambush Feats have a prerequisite of sneak attack dmg dice that you give up when using them, and the feat rogue fails to satisfy that prerequisite. If only u could swap feat with SA rogue as ACF.

That's where PrC's enter. A one level dip on the normal rogue plus some PrC's and I have my feats AND SA.

[Chronos]

That's where PrC's enter. A one level dip on the normal rogue plus some PrC's and I have my feats AND SA.

You can't use two different variants of the same class in the same build. I guess you could dip Spellthief or Lurk or something, though.

I guess you could load up on Martial Study and Incarnum feats and be a skill monkey that swapped sneak attacking for nifty tricks.

Unfortunately, the feat rogue variant restricts you to the fighter feat list, and none of the incarnum feats are actually on the fighter list (though some of them, like the cobalt ones, probably should be). You could still take Martial Study, but most maneuvers won't do much for your skill monkeying.

For a really interesting thought, at 10th level, you could take Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, and get some sneak attack (and qualify for things requiring it) anyway.

[Kurald Galain]

Pshaw. I drain you of 30 STR a round, render you unable of casting spells, you move at half speed, and I slept with your girlfriend (Okay, last part was hyperbole ).

Ambush feats crush everything else.

Interesting. Which feats are those?

(the ambush things, not the girlfriend feat although I seem to recall seeing something like that in the Munchkin RPG)

[Human Paragon 3]

Blast! That's basically what I thought. Oh well.

[Azerian Kelimon]

You can't use two different variants of the same class in the same build. I guess you could dip Spellthief or Lurk or something, though.

Unfortunately, the feat rogue variant restricts you to the fighter feat list, and none of the incarnum feats are actually on the fighter list (though some of them, like the cobalt ones, probably should be). You could still take Martial Study, but most maneuvers won't do much for your skill monkeying.

For a really interesting thought, at 10th level, you could take Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, and get some sneak attack (and qualify for things requiring it) anyway.

Actually, you can. It was mentioned in some book as it discussed Barbarian variants, stating that yes, you could take two variants, but they didn't stack, so you started from scratch.

Kurald: Well, I'd get TWF up to greater, Savvy Rogue, Hamstring, and the one that lets you silence casters which I can't remember, but it cost 5d6 SA, which means you need 6d6 SA, easily obtained.

Oh, and possibly Staggering Strike, if it does what Reel said it did on another thread.