Rogue Prestige

[ocato]

Alright, as I posted a few days ago, I'm making a rogue character. I've decided to take the character in a different direction, and I'd like some help optimizing building the character.

I want to use the "High Sword Low Axe" feat from CWar. I'm sure it's not too super-uber, but the idea has captured my imagination and honestly, it's not a huge optimizing group anyway so I figure making a character I like will be worth something. Now, the campaign is supposed to be pretty rough, but not "roll out the CoDzillas, Batmen, and Pun-Puns" difficult. Does that make sense? I want to wring the good out of this idea, but I acknowledge that the amount of good in it is not inherently excessive.

The only books I can think of that are specifically not allowed are ToB, Champions of Ruin, and anything 3rd party/WotC. I can't immediately recall the exact books they have, so I apologize if I have to go "oops, not that book."

The character is L13, standard wealth (110,000gp), and has the following rolled stats:
12
18
15
16
10
12

What I'm looking for is...
1. Some Feat suggestions for making this build ideal. Improved Trip, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (bastard sword –or–
longsword –or– scimitar), Weapon Focus (battleaxe –or–
dwarven waraxe –or– handaxe) are required for the High Sword Low Axe feat, making this build already fairly feat intensive. That's 5 feats right there. Other feats that sound good are Oversized TWF and Two Weapon Pounce, but I'm 3not married to either. Oversized TWF was because I really didn't want to use a wimpy little axe, so I was thinking of going Dwarf for the free waraxe proficiency and use a longsword (or scimitar) in the off-hand. But it seems that it might be smarter to go human and A) use a longsword/handaxe B) get a bonus feat and C) save the feat I would've used for Oversized TWF. I like Two Weapon Pounce because it gives a lot of options for hitting with both weapons in a round, increasing sneak attack damage (circumstances permitting) and giving me a shot at that sweet trip. Any feats that increase the strength of tripping or anything along the lines of the build are greatly appreciated.

2. A non-weapon specific/compatible weapon specific PrC that gives sneak attack, good (full if possible) BaB, and/or some other source of a lot of attacks. Keep in mind that I'm still fairly open on the race issue if that's important. Any suggestions on the break-down of classes/PrCs wouldn't hurt. Please don't suggest a Lion-totem barbarian dip, because my DM is fairly against that. I'm leaning fighter/rogue with a PrC, with the goal of getting a good head of Sneak Attack steam, as many extra attacks as I can sneak in (making sneak attack better), and maybe some trip optimization if you happen to know something.

3. Some good ideas for magic items (boots of speed, rogue's vest, etc) and/or anything else I might've forgotten.

4. Also, super-optimizers, please don't be so mean to me for considering this idea that I cry.

[FlyMolo]

DERVISH.

I love the PrC and it's just fun. Also, it's exactly what you want here. You just stab everyone in the room once. If those are trips, you just knocked the whole room over.

With improved trip, you stabbed them too.

You might want to consider War Mind, if your DM is sane and likes psionics. Sweeping strike is pretty perfect for this build.

[ocato]

My DM is a little Psiono-phobic unfortunately.

[Curmudgeon]

Whatever else you do, pick up Craven from Champions of Ruin. You'll be glad you did.

[Draz74]

Whatever else you do, pick up Craven from Champions of Ruin. You'll be glad you did.

Never mind that, you know, that's one of the two books that's specifically not allowed.

Dervish is a good suggestion, for sure.

[UserClone]

Whatever else you do, pick up Craven from Champions of Ruin. You'll be glad you did.

You make me giggle.

Doesn't Dervish require a specific type of weapon? If that's the case, CAdv has the Tempest, a 5-level PrC which, among a couple of other things, reduces your TWF penalties down to zero.

[Chronicled]

2. A non-weapon specific/compatible weapon specific PrC that gives sneak attack, good (full if possible) BaB, and/or some other source of a lot of attacks.

I doubt that it's your best option, but Nightsong Enforcer from Complete Adventurer has SA progession, full BAB, d8 HD, pretty easy prerequisites (non-weapon specific), and okay class features.

[PollyOliver]

You make me giggle.

Doesn't Dervish require a specific type of weapon? If that's the case, CAdv has the Tempest, a 5-level PrC which, among a couple of other things, reduces your TWF penalties down to zero.

Dervish requires weapon focus in any slashing weapon, though it gives scimitars a little boost by letting you consider them a light weapon.

If you do go into the dervish class, though, and want to enter via the skill monkey route, I would recommend that you make it scout instead of rogue; less precision damage, but you'll activate it every time you dance, without fail.

Edit: I forgot to say that as fun as dervish is, it's also pretty feat heavy to get into, though there's some overlap with the feat you want; combat expertise and the weapon focus you'll need anyway, but it also requires the sucktastic dodge and mobility.

Anyway, I was thinking that Daring Outlaw (I want to say it's in Complete Scoundrel, but I'm not sure) would be fun. It lets you stack rogue and swashbuckler levels for grace, reflex save bonus, and sneak attack.

[Animefunkmaster]

For a race, I highly recommend Neraphim from the Planar Handbook Also in the Preview, here. It is one of the best ways to get consistent sneak attack damage. Next add into the mix a level of Lion Spiritual Totem Barbarian (Complete Champion), this grants you pounce instead of fast movement. Use the Whirling Frenzy Variant found in the srd.

Now a Neraphim's favored class is ranger, so we are going to have to either multi class like crazy or find a reasonable PrC (I am AFB does daring outlaw allow you to forgoe rogue and swash for multi classing).

So to set up as a good base we can have a:
Rogue2/Barbarian1 (Lion Sotoem, Whirling Frenzy), Fighter2 (May want to take the sneak attack variant found in the srd)

This opens up the options for ghost faced killer, or assassin, or any other prcs that offer SA dice (Avoid Invisible Blade, it is generally a trap).

I would forget temptest as it really adds little in the terms of useful abilities for a sneak attacker. Dervish is an option but it would mean dropping lots of sneak attack damage. Charging and pouncing with an auto flat foot seems to be where you are going.

[Draz74]

Dervish requires weapon focus in any slashing weapon, though it gives scimitars a little boost by letting you consider them a light weapon.

Hence, Dwarven Waraxe in one hand and Scimitar in the off-hand. Perfect.

The feat thing will be a pain, though. How dedicated are you to a Rouge base? Because some combination of Fighter, Swashbuckler, and/or Scout levels might indeed make it easier to qualify for Dervish.

Don't bother with Tempest. It's a pretty small benefit for 5 levels. More Rogue/Scout levels is probably a bigger benefit.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, Nightsong Enforcer does sound like an ideal choice for you. It is full BAB, grants +4d6 Sneak Attack over 10 levels (you loose 1d6 over Rogue), and you get some nifty abilities, including ones that actually help out the party as a whole. Most go straight Rogue/Nightsong Enforcer, as you don't really need Fighter levels to make it work. You're only losing a couple BAB by going Rogue10/Nightsong Enforcer10, you get a lot more precision-based damage, and a whole lot more flavor and skill points. You're a skill monkey... that CAN fight.

[PollyOliver]

Hence, Dwarven Waraxe in one hand and Scimitar in the off-hand. Perfect.

The feat thing will be a pain, though. How dedicated are you to a Rouge base? Because some combination of Fighter, Swashbuckler, and/or Scout levels might indeed make it easier to qualify for Dervish.

Don't bother with Tempest. It's a pretty small benefit for 5 levels. More Rogue/Scout levels is probably a bigger benefit.

The simplest way into dervish, in my opinion, is Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2--INT to damage, since you're going to need a half-decent INT anyway for combat expertise and improved trip, and help with feats.

Flaws (Unearthed Arcana) are going to make life a lot easier, because otherwise it'll be a long time before you can grab High Sword Low Axe. You could just go with more fighter levels to get feats, but that strikes me as sadly un-fun. Scout levels would be interesting, but keep in mind that they have 3/4 BAB and delay your dervish dance. Scout 3 and 4 appear to be good jumping-off points (and scout 4 has a bonus feat, though the list is limited), if scout is something you like the sound of. Feats will be crazy tight, though. Without flaws, you'd have to wait until something like level 15 to get your fighting style, which sucks. Two flaws can bring it down to 9, which is more doable.

If you really like sneak attack, though, I'd again suggest Daring Outlaw. If you think the game will go to level 20, take 4 levels of swashbuckler at the very least to get an extra attack; otherwise apportion the levels so that you can grab whatever nifty rogue abilities strike your interest while still getting the most out of swashbuckler HD and BAB.

Another route you might consider is the thug variant fighter from Unearthed Arcana. I've never used it, but I believe it gets sneak attack instead of feats, with everything else the same as a normal fighter.

[Curmudgeon]

OK, so if you can't use Craven, go for the Penetrating Strike alternative class feature (Dungeonscape, page 12). It gives you half the regular sneak attack damage against those who would otherwise be immune -- but it's limited to enemies you flank. Since you're going for melee damage, this shouldn't be a problem.

[Armads]

Ronin gives 1d6 sneak attack at level 1, with Full BAB too.