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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default How Much Would This Cost?

    I've got a Courtblade, and I'm interested in adding some spells that are activated via Spell Trigger completion. Said spells would be the following:

    True Strike, Wraithstrike and Whirling Blade

    Does anyone have the formula for adding spell trigger completion spells onto weaponry? I can't seem to find it at the moment.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neftren View Post
    I've got a Courtblade, and I'm interested in adding some spells that are activated via Spell Trigger completion. Said spells would be the following:

    True Strike, Wraithstrike and Whirling Blade

    Does anyone have the formula for adding spell trigger completion spells onto weaponry? I can't seem to find it at the moment.
    No making Use Activated True Stiking, Wraithstriking swords with the activation condition of "When I attack". At least not until epic levels.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    He doesn't want Use Activated, he wants a sword that doubles as a wand, and which still requires a standard action to use the spells.
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neftren View Post
    I've got a Courtblade, and I'm interested in adding some spells that are activated via Spell Trigger completion. Said spells would be the following:

    True Strike, Wraithstrike and Whirling Blade

    Does anyone have the formula for adding spell trigger completion spells onto weaponry? I can't seem to find it at the moment.
    It has a price of "NO"

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    He doesn't want Use Activated, he wants a sword that doubles as a wand, and which still requires a standard action to use the spells.
    I think your right, as for the price, i'm horrible as such things, but the words 'extreamly expensive' comes to mind.


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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    check out the SRD for magic items.

    If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...ntItemCreation

    so id figure out what a wand of those spells is for use activated. Take the lowest costing one and multiply that by 1.5, add all the cost then add that to the cost of the sword.

    However just remember that something like true strike, you basically have to waste a turn to cast it, then use it the next turn.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Sure, such an item is easy to stat for.

    A weapon of use-activated true strike is essentially a +20 weapon, thus costs 800,000 gold.

    A weapon of use-activated wraithstrike could be modeled if we know the difference between the average monster's AC and its touch AC. Now I'm not going to run through the entire monster list to calculate this average, but note that a great wyrm dragon has an AC of 41, and a touch AC of 2, for a difference of 39. So that's a lot.
    Picking a random number in between, let's say the average is 15. That means a weapon of use-activated wraithstrike costs 450,000 gold.

    On the upside, the whirling enhancement counts only as a +1 enhancement.

    Thus, a whirling truestrike wraithstrike weapon costs 2,592,000 gold.
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Picking a random number in between, let's say the average is 15.
    This is how balance is created!

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    umm spell trigger, not use activated.

    I would look at wonderous items that provide similar spells x/day, or give it charges per a wand, then multiply by 1.5 to 2 (due to extra resources )

    as it stands 1 action to complete true strike, 1 to complete wraithstrike (free ?) leaves only a standard move or wait and attack the next round,
    looking at for each effect with 50 charges about 10k on top of the sword enchantment. (and true strike only triggers on one attack)
    very nice item but i could see its value erroding pretty quickly, as the charges run out,
    use activated that isn't linited in uses as stated would be a lot!
    Fitz

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    21,000 gp For just the Truestrike, and it's a standard action to activate it that does no provoke AoO. But still not bad. The uses are not limited. I'd put in another 11,000 or so for your Wraithstrike (i don't know where that spell is, if it's a second level spell, that would be the price), and your whirling blade, I don't know, but another 11,000 atleast....enjoy.


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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkMandriller View Post
    This is how balance is created!
    You're kind of missing the point there. Aside from that, you're welcome to actually calculate the average over the entire monster list. You owe me a beer if it's anywhere close to 15.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    umm spell trigger, not use activated.

    I would look at wonderous items that provide similar spells x/day, or give it charges per a wand, then multiply by 1.5 to 2 (due to extra resources )

    as it stands 1 action to complete true strike, 1 to complete wraithstrike (free ?) leaves only a standard move or wait and attack the next round,
    looking at for each effect with 50 charges about 10k on top of the sword enchantment. (and true strike only triggers on one attack)
    very nice item but i could see its value erroding pretty quickly, as the charges run out,
    use activated that isn't linited in uses as stated would be a lot!
    Fitz
    not quite, because using a spell trigger is a standard action, no matter if the item in it is quickend or anything else (same reason why you dont see quickened scrolls).

    Then the person has to worry about the UMD check to use the item, unless they have the spells on thier class list.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by leperkhaun View Post
    not quite, because using a spell trigger is a standard action, no matter if the item in it is quickend or anything else (same reason why you dont see quickened scrolls).

    Then the person has to worry about the UMD check to use the item, unless they have the spells on thier class list.
    Not according to the rules compendium, IIRC. You can use a quickened scroll as a swift action.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    Not according to the rules compendium, IIRC. You can use a quickened scroll as a swift action.
    ahhh i havent looked through that one.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Sure, such an item is easy to stat for.

    A weapon of use-activated true strike is essentially a +20 weapon, thus costs 800,000 gold.

    A weapon of use-activated wraithstrike could be modeled if we know the difference between the average monster's AC and its touch AC. Now I'm not going to run through the entire monster list to calculate this average, but note that a great wyrm dragon has an AC of 41, and a touch AC of 2, for a difference of 39. So that's a lot.
    Picking a random number in between, let's say the average is 15. That means a weapon of use-activated wraithstrike costs 450,000 gold.

    On the upside, the whirling enhancement counts only as a +1 enhancement.

    Thus, a whirling truestrike wraithstrike weapon costs 2,592,000 gold.
    SPELL TRIGGER, NOT USE ACTIVATED

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    umm spell trigger, not use activated.

    I would look at wonderous items that provide similar spells x/day, or give it charges per a wand, then multiply by 1.5 to 2 (due to extra resources )

    as it stands 1 action to complete true strike, 1 to complete wraithstrike (free ?) leaves only a standard move or wait and attack the next round,
    looking at for each effect with 50 charges about 10k on top of the sword enchantment. (and true strike only triggers on one attack)
    very nice item but i could see its value erroding pretty quickly, as the charges run out,
    use activated that isn't linited in uses as stated would be a lot!
    Fitz
    The idea is to combine it with the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat and Quicken Spell. So if I need to power attack, I cast True Strike as a swift action via the sword, or if I need to hit the guy, I cast Wraithstrike as a swift action. Whirling Blade is there if I need to do some crowd control.

    I believe there's a feat out there that lets me siphon spell slots instead of wand charges, so why can't I do the same with the courtblade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    21,000 gp For just the Truestrike, and it's a standard action to activate it that does no provoke AoO. But still not bad. The uses are not limited. I'd put in another 11,000 or so for your Wraithstrike (i don't know where that spell is, if it's a second level spell, that would be the price), and your whirling blade, I don't know, but another 11,000 atleast....enjoy.
    Thanks. I'm actually thinking... what if I treat it like an enchanted staff or rod?

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neftren View Post
    SPELL TRIGGER, NOT USE ACTIVATED
    No need to shout, dude. You ask for cheese, you get a gouda price.
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neftren View Post
    Thanks. I'm actually thinking... what if I treat it like an enchanted staff or rod?
    It would still have charges, just a different caster level.

    I would recommend looking at the Eberron-originated Eternal Wand for use in your weapon - the Eternal Wand is a wand usable twice per day, but does not have charges (or rather, it has two charges/day). I certainly wouldn't want my sword to run out of charges ever.

    As far as pricing goes, not only are you stacking effects (1.5 times the cost for all stacked effects), but I'd also add an off-slot penalty (1.5 times cost) to the cost of the wand powers. So, I would take the wand price, basically multiply it by two, then add it to the base weapon.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    No need to shout, dude. You ask for cheese, you get a gouda price.
    And what does he get if he doesn't ask for cheese? He's talking about using actions to cast spells, just like anyone else with a spell or a wand.

    What book are Wand Chambers from? They're a weapon option that lets you stick a wand in a weapon, so you can hold both at once. That plus a perfectly ordinary wand should do the trick.
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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    I was always told that if you have to ask how much something costs... you can't afford it.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    And what does he get if he doesn't ask for cheese? He's talking about using actions to cast spells, just like anyone else with a spell or a wand.

    What book are Wand Chambers from? They're a weapon option that lets you stick a wand in a weapon, so you can hold both at once. That plus a perfectly ordinary wand should do the trick.
    This is so far best advice IMO (I think they are in Dungeonscape). Though it should be noted that there are no wand of quickened spells higher than lvl0, so it still might be problem for Quickened True Strike. That could be priced by doubling cost of "normal" fifth level spell wands (as this is what epic rules say about pricing items that exceed normal bonuses).

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    What is "spell trigger completion" ? Do you want "spell trigger" or "spell completion" ?

    The SRD does not give prices for infinite-charge spell triggers, but since "Charged (50 charges)" halves the price, I guess we can assume it's spell level x caster level x 1,500 gp.

    Wraithstrike is Sor/Wiz 2, so that's 2 x 3 x 1500 = 9000 gp.
    Truestrike is Sor/Wiz 1, so that's 1 x 1 x 1500 = 1500 gp.
    Whirling Blade is Sor/Wiz 2, so that's also 2 x 3 x 1500 = 9000 gp.

    Since there's multiple abilities, all but the most expensive get 50% added to the cost, for a total of 9000 + 4500 + 1500 + 750 + 9000 = 24,750 gp. That's added to the weapon's cost - probably. You might have to add another 4,500 gp, but I'm not sure; the rules on adding powers to items aren't that clear.

    You have to have the spells on your own spell list (so you need to have Sorcerer or Wizard levels, but just 1 will do), and activating them is a standarda action. So it'll take you 3 rounds to activate all the effects - and by the time you're done, either true strike or wraithstrike will have worn off.

    Of course, you must realize that this item will be grossly overpowered, mostly because wraithstrike is grossly overpowered for its level. You'd also find it cheaper to just get double-priced infinite wands for each of the spells (totalling 19,500 gp for all three).

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsotha-lanti View Post
    ...and activating them is a standarda action...
    As has been said - Rules Compendium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    And what does he get if he doesn't ask for cheese?
    Sausage, probably.

    Anyway, regardless of what kind of action he's using, Wraithstrike pretty much qualifies as gruyere all by itself. It's one of the three low-level spells that Logic Ninja calls too cheesy to use.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Oh, quickened, right. Then my calculations are all wrong. Let's see...

    6 x 11 x 1500 = 99,000 gp
    5 x 9 x 1500 = 67,500 gp x 1.5 = 101,250 gp
    6 x 11 x 1500 = 99,000 gp x 1.5 = 148,500 gp

    Total 348,750 gp. Oops, combining any of the two in one item, or using a base item with a price higher than 50,000 to 100,000 gp (depending on which you pick) will make this an epic item. Big surprise. The item would, in fact, be perfectly balanced for epic play. (Edit: Correction - under-powered, in fact, since it doesn't give you access to Epic Spellcasting.)
    Last edited by Tsotha-lanti; 2008-05-21 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    So? According to rules compendium, a 1-level dip in wizard and 10000 gp I can have a weapon that calls Wraithstrike at will? As a swift action? One could say that a level is major investment, but, still, its cheese in its most delicious level. Thank you, Rules Compendium!
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    I don't have the Rules Compendium, but I'm pretty sure the spell needs to be Quickened. 10,000 gp it ain't.

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    It would still have charges, just a different caster level.

    I would recommend looking at the Eberron-originated Eternal Wand for use in your weapon - the Eternal Wand is a wand usable twice per day, but does not have charges (or rather, it has two charges/day). I certainly wouldn't want my sword to run out of charges ever.

    As far as pricing goes, not only are you stacking effects (1.5 times the cost for all stacked effects), but I'd also add an off-slot penalty (1.5 times cost) to the cost of the wand powers. So, I would take the wand price, basically multiply it by two, then add it to the base weapon.
    The only issue with Eternal Wands is that I can't quicken the spell. It's also incompatible with the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat, since there are no "charges" to "burn". Hence I've skipped past the Eternal Wand. I basically use em as cheap Cure Light Wounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by marjan View Post
    This is so far best advice IMO (I think they are in Dungeonscape). Though it should be noted that there are no wand of quickened spells higher than lvl0, so it still might be problem for Quickened True Strike. That could be priced by doubling cost of "normal" fifth level spell wands (as this is what epic rules say about pricing items that exceed normal bonuses).
    I believe you cannot add Quicken to a wand, since Spell Trigger items require a standard action to use. Hence, no good. Which is why I need Metamagic Spell Trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsotha-lanti View Post
    What is "spell trigger completion" ? Do you want "spell trigger" or "spell completion" ?

    The SRD does not give prices for infinite-charge spell triggers, but since "Charged (50 charges)" halves the price, I guess we can assume it's spell level x caster level x 1,500 gp.

    Wraithstrike is Sor/Wiz 2, so that's 2 x 3 x 1500 = 9000 gp.
    Truestrike is Sor/Wiz 1, so that's 1 x 1 x 1500 = 1500 gp.
    Whirling Blade is Sor/Wiz 2, so that's also 2 x 3 x 1500 = 9000 gp.

    Since there's multiple abilities, all but the most expensive get 50% added to the cost, for a total of 9000 + 4500 + 1500 + 750 + 9000 = 24,750 gp. That's added to the weapon's cost - probably. You might have to add another 4,500 gp, but I'm not sure; the rules on adding powers to items aren't that clear.

    You have to have the spells on your own spell list (so you need to have Sorcerer or Wizard levels, but just 1 will do), and activating them is a standarda action. So it'll take you 3 rounds to activate all the effects - and by the time you're done, either true strike or wraithstrike will have worn off.

    Of course, you must realize that this item will be grossly overpowered, mostly because wraithstrike is grossly overpowered for its level. You'd also find it cheaper to just get double-priced infinite wands for each of the spells (totalling 19,500 gp for all three).
    Spell Trigger. Completed through Spell Trigger. I'm not crafting the item itself, so it doesn't matter if I have the spell on my spell list or not. I can always attune myself to the item and never have to make another UMD check ever again, so not a big issue. The idea isn't to activate all three effects though... the idea is to be able to activate one effect as a swift action every so often, depending on the circumstances.

    Yes, I know it's obscenely overpowered. That's the idea. Only thing is I can't wield a Courtblade and a wand at the same time, unless I get the Wand Chamber ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsotha-lanti View Post
    Oh, quickened, right. Then my calculations are all wrong. Let's see...

    6 x 11 x 1500 = 99,000 gp
    5 x 9 x 1500 = 67,500 gp x 1.5 = 101,250 gp
    6 x 11 x 1500 = 99,000 gp x 1.5 = 148,500 gp

    Total 348,750 gp. Oops, combining any of the two in one item, or using a base item with a price higher than 50,000 to 100,000 gp (depending on which you pick) will make this an epic item. Big surprise. The item would, in fact, be perfectly balanced for epic play. (Edit: Correction - under-powered, in fact, since it doesn't give you access to Epic Spellcasting.)
    Most games ban Epic Spellcasting anyway. The class I intend to play also doesn't have an epic progression, so whatever.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    What class are you using with this? Just out of curiosity...


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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    What class are you using with this? Just out of curiosity...
    Either Duskblade for super-awesome channeling benefits, or Beguiler just to have a variety. Depends on what my party needs at the moment.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How Much Would This Cost?

    I believe you cannot add Quicken to a wand, since Spell Trigger items require a standard action to use.
    I'll say it again - Rules Compendium, AKA Yes, you can.

    So? According to rules compendium, a 1-level dip in wizard and 10000 gp I can have a weapon that calls Wraithstrike at will? As a swift action? One could say that a level is major investment, but, still, its cheese in its most delicious level. Thank you, Rules Compendium!
    You maybe thought about that it is not Rules Compendium, but the spell itslef that is cheesy?

    EDIT: Also the prices listed are according to guidelines so they are not absolute.
    Last edited by marjan; 2008-05-21 at 05:34 PM.

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