A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Orcus & the 4e MM

    Is anyone else really excited to see Orcus in the 4e MM? I know I am! They also include a high priest, and a bunch of other minions. I think it's pretty cool.

    I'm actually really impressed with the 4e MM. I also like the cleaning up they did with types & subtypes, while still leaving room for more (whether by homebrew or supplements). The art in it is very clean, and just about every monster has a picture. They've also expanded on some monsters, like the Medusa, that no one ever used, since they don't make any sense, unless you want to right up a bunch of backstory about how the Medusa came to be and why you're using someone else's monster.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Same here. However, you know what's the really interesting bit?

    Take a look at Orcus.

    Then, take a look at the experience per monster tables in the DMG.

    Notice how it goes up to 40? I'm wondering what kind of thing they're preparing about that. I find the idea of battling a level 40 Demogorgon really exciting. It makes me very hopeful about what we will see in the future MM's, because 40 levels give a wide range for the designers to invent new monsters, and under the new system, the possibilities for those are endless.
    Last edited by Azerian Kelimon; 2008-05-31 at 08:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    40 will probably be for deities and high-end abominations.


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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Obviously, but considering the DMG says encounters of 8 levels above the PC's or more are nigh on impossible, this means that there's probably going to be something above and beyond the epic levels.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerian Kelimon View Post
    Obviously, but considering the DMG says encounters of 8 levels above the PC's or more are nigh on impossible, this means that there's probably going to be something above and beyond the epic levels.
    Of course there will be. They've got to tap the Tippy market.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddly View Post
    Of course there will be. They've got to tap the Tippy market.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerian Kelimon View Post
    Obviously, but considering the DMG says encounters of 8 levels above the PC's or more are nigh on impossible, this means that there's probably going to be something above and beyond the epic levels.
    Some people like trying the nigh-on impossible.

    It becomes less impossible if you have allies.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    Some people like trying the nigh-on impossible.

    It becomes less impossible if you have allies.
    Yes, but considering the power Orcus has, I imagine Demogorgon would be outright impossible without more levels, to the point of "You lose unless you have at least THIS amount of levels".

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    They've said before that their scale of calibration was that Major Deities, like Moradin, would end up being about Level 38. (Moradin was the specific example used.) High enough level that they would see Orcus as a fairly easy challenge in a fair 1v1 fight, but a real threat if he has strong helpers or if they are weaker than usual.
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Anyone notice how it looks suspiciously like a bloodthirster? He used to be a fat ugly meanie with a skully head, wasn't he?
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Blood for the Blood God!
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by cnsvnc View Post
    Anyone notice how it looks suspiciously like a bloodthirster? He used to be a fat ugly meanie with a skully head, wasn't he?
    He's been working out...as has almost everything else in the Mesomorph Manual.

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    ( Fat skull-face Orcus > Beefcake Orcus )

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Post his stats!
    Some of us can't afford/get the 4e books early right now.
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned the undead View Post
    Post his stats!
    Some of us can't afford/get the 4e books early right now.
    Then wait til you can. Posting his stats is actually kinda illegal...
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    {Scrubbed}

    Please don't post copyrighted content.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2008-06-01 at 03:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Overlard View Post
    Then wait til you can. Posting his stats is actually kinda illegal...
    Oh.
    That's no fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned the undead View Post
    Oh.
    That's no fun.
    Guess you'll have fun anyway.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by bosssmiley View Post
    He's been working out...as has almost everything else in the Mesomorph Manual.

    Orcus: "Ma. Where's my protein shake?" *Orcus 'roid rage*

    ( Fat skull-face Orcus > Beefcake Orcus )
    His depiction in BoVD and Fiendish Codex 1 is in line with the 4e depiction. Those didn't depict the bloat he was supposed to have. Maybe they got rid of that bit. He never had a skull face though, always something akin to a rams head, though 3e (perhaps 2e, but I'm unfamiliar with that edition) added much bigger teeth/tusks and big claws.

    As for looking like a bloodthirster, it's because both are based around the same depiction of demons.
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerian Kelimon View Post
    No need to be rude, overlard.
    There was nothing rude about it. Overlard was pointing out that until the SRD for 4.0 is out it is a violation of copyright law and maybe forum rules (not sure on that one but see copyright law violation) to post material from the books.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboticSheeple View Post
    There was nothing rude about it. Overlard was pointing out that until the SRD for 4.0 is out it is a violation of copyright law and maybe forum rules (not sure on that one but see copyright law violation) to post material from the books.
    As far as I know, WotC doesn't own Orcus.

    If they don't own it, I have complete freedom to post his stats. Mindflayers would be a whole 'nuther story, though, as they are WotC monsters.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    WoTC Does in fact own Orcus
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  22. - Top - End - #22

    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    WoTC Does in fact own Orcus
    If he appeared in 1st or second edition, then no, Sirrah.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Mindflayers exitested in 2nd ed, beholders did to, alot of monsters did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Mindflayers exitested in 2nd ed, beholders did to, alot of monsters did.
    Yes, but most of those monsters remain under TSR. The Beholder and Mindflayer are exceptions, as WotC had to buy them SPECIFICALLY. Everything else was sort of loaned.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerian Kelimon View Post
    Yes, but most of those monsters remain under TSR. The Beholder and Mindflayer are exceptions, as WotC had to buy them SPECIFICALLY. Everything else was sort of loaned.
    WotC owns the 4e stats for Orcus. Whether they own the copyright to the concept of Orcus is irrelevant.

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerian Kelimon View Post
    As far as I know, WotC doesn't own Orcus.

    If they don't own it, I have complete freedom to post his stats. Mindflayers would be a whole 'nuther story, though, as they are WotC monsters.
    EVEN if what you say is the case about Orcus not being a copyrighted property until the SRD is released June 6th 2008 it's still not kosher.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...news/20080108a

    But this thread isn't for debating copyright laws so back to the subject of Orcus in 4.0 MM, Great stuff for making someone aside from the Tarrasque the end game beasty with minions and more built in story to work use.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Meh, your so called concepts of 'law' hardly are valid on the internet, are they?
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by Moff Chumley View Post
    Meh, your so called concepts of 'law' hardly are valid on the internet, are they?
    Not when we are discussing a book that we've all read that doesn't come out for a week anyway.

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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    *Kicks thread in direction of juicy details*

    So, just how beefy are these abyssal ghoul myrmidons and dread wraiths? Are they Minions, or actually tough monsters (Elite, etc.)?

    It seems to me that Orcus has a chance, by himself, to destroy most all parties. I mean, yeah being dropped immediately to 0 HP isn't as bad in this edition (since everyone can heal themselves to some extent), but healing surges run out and Orcus just has to wait a while before most of his stuff recharges (since his good abilities aren't 1/encounter or /day).


    (Also, I'm still trying to get used to the speed being in squares instead of feet, and I freaked out a little when I saw "Fly 10 (clumsy).' I thought for a minute that this giant monstrous devil god was apparently the slowest flier ever!
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    Default Re: Orcus & the 4e MM

    Quote Originally Posted by rtg0922 View Post
    *Kicks thread in direction of juicy details*

    So, just how beefy are these abyssal ghoul myrmidons and dread wraiths? Are they Minions, or actually tough monsters (Elite, etc.)?

    It seems to me that Orcus has a chance, by himself, to destroy most all parties. I mean, yeah being dropped immediately to 0 HP isn't as bad in this edition (since everyone can heal themselves to some extent), but healing surges run out and Orcus just has to wait a while before most of his stuff recharges (since his good abilities aren't 1/encounter or /day).


    (Also, I'm still trying to get used to the speed being in squares instead of feet, and I freaked out a little when I saw "Fly 10 (clumsy).' I thought for a minute that this giant monstrous devil god was apparently the slowest flier ever!
    Myrmidons are minions, but dread wraiths are the real deal, level 25 lurkers.

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