Thread: Chicken Infested Builds

1. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen
The bonus isn't stacking, it's overlapping, but the cap is increasing, and since each Chicken Spam Attack allows you to increase your CL arbitrarily high (limited only by the cap), it goes up to the new cap. Recast, get a higher cap, get that cap as CL, recast...
Yes, I know. That's why the second casting had any effect at all.

You cast it once and go to the cap. The cap is +6.

You cast it again, and the cap is now +9. Go to the cap and your total caster level is 22.

You cast it a third time and the cap is now 22/2 = +11. Go to the cap and your total caster level is 13+11 = 24.

Fourth time the cap is +12, for a total of 25.

All subsequent castings have a cap of +12 unless you can somehow boost your caster level to 26 or higher - and the field itself won't do that because its cap only gets you to 25 with your base of 13.

2. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Morkaischosen, what douglas is saying is that the cap will never go above your original caster level. In particular,

First casting:
Maximum caster level = x + x/2, or 3x/2, where x is your original caster level.

Second casting:
Max. caster level = x + (first casting max)/2 = x + 3x/2/2 = x + 3x/4 = 7x/4

Third casting:
Max caster level = x + (second casting max)/2 = x+7x/4/2 = x + 7x/8 = 15x/8

This patern continues forever, so your maximum caster level is always modeled by the equation x + (((2^n) - 1)x)/2^n, where x is your original caster level and n is the number of repetitions. Since (2^n) - 1 will never match or exceed 2^n, your maximum possible caster level will always be less than double your original caster level.

Doesn't mean it isn't a neat trick though.

3. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

OK, sorry, you're all right. I should think a little more about this stuff...

4. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Infinite geometric series are evil.

5. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Originally Posted by douglas
Two problems, one good, one bad:
Consumptive Field only kills things that are below 0 hp. You have to drop each chicken to negatives by some other means, and you have to be careful to not drop them all the way to -10 when you do. Greater Consumptive Field gets rid of this problem but is significantly higher level.
Ah yes, I believe I have mixed up normal and greater consumptive field. Anyone know of any Cleric spells within the first 4 spell levels that can kill countless number of chickens?

Originally Posted by douglas
Two problems, one good, one bad:

The bonuses from each death last as long as the field does - or all day, in this case. Kill 10000 chickens and you get 10000d8 temp hp and +20000 strength, all of which lasts for 24 hours or until someone dispels your Consumptive Field. Yes, this is broken.
Yes it is quite broken. Probably more broken than the Coin Flip Cleric-Crusader, since you get NI temp HP on top of NI Str bonus, as free actions no less.

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen

The Fell Animate Exploding Chicken build is better, though...
It almost certainly requires you to take Tomb Tainted Soul, since the Chickens are produced, killed, and animated at point blank range. Otherwise if the enemy gets an AoE spell on you while you are surrounded by your own chickens...

And of course your non-undead, non tomb-tainted party members have to keep away.

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen

1 level of Warblade- take Sapphire Nightmare Blade and max ranks in Concentration, so you can use SNB reliably (it requires you to beat the enemy's AC with a Concentration check). You can use SNB every other turn (and make a standard action attack in the turns you're not using it), allowing you to create Chickeny Death.
Hmm... Then how does something like this look:

Tentative Name: Cluck-tousai the Slasher
Commoner 1 / Warblade 1 / Psion 1 / Rogue X

Human
-Need at least 13 Str for Psionic Weapon
-Need at least 13 Wis for Psionic Meditation

01: Commoner 1- Flaw: Chicken Infested, Flaw Feat: Weapon Proficiency: Chicken (is there such a thing?), Char Feat: Psionic Weapon, Human Feat: Able Learner
03: Rogue 1-Char Feat: Elusive Dance (Req Perform Dance 5)
04: Psion 1-Psion Bonus Feat: Psionic Meditation (Req Concentration 7)
05: Rogue 2
06: Rogue 3-Char Feat: One of Choice
07: Rogue 4
08: Rogue 5
09: Rogue 6-Deep Impact (Req BAB 5)

*Commoner 1 gives Chicken Infested
*Psion 1 gives Concentration as a class skill, bonus Psionic Feat, and the Power Points for Psionic Focus.
*Warblade 1 gives Sapphire Nightmare, and Armor/Shield Proficiencies
*Rogue gives Sneak Attack bonus damage, and perform as class skill for Elusive Dance.

So each round you:
1) Draw a Chicken as a Free Action (from the spell component pouch)
2) Use Sapphire Nightmare as a Standard Action to catch your foe flat footed
3) Use Deep Impact to ignore a good chunk of enemy AC and to ensure your strike hits.
4) Stack Iaijutsu Focus and Rogue Sneak Attack to deal a good chunk of bonus damage
5) Use Psionic Meditation as a Move Action to regain focus. Rely on Elusive Dance to prevent AoOs (will not work as well if you are surrounded by more than 1 enemy)
6) Drop the Chicken as a free action

So at level 9, Iaiajutsu Focus would have 12 ranks, giving an avarage of 22.5 on Iaijutsu check, or 3d6 bonus damage. Rogue 6 would give you 3d6 sneak attack. Add on Sapphire Nightmare 1d6 bonus bonus for a total of 7d6 bonus damage on a touch attack, with a Chicken.

How does this look? Any ideas on what other feats might be useful?

6. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

I am totally allowing this chicken-infested flaw in my game. This means you, guy.

If you make cheese with it, you will be smited with counter-cheese. But this is amazing stuff. For pure comedic value I'll let you take it for free on your next level-up.

7. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

You could replace that psion level with more Rogue- Warblade gives Concentration as a class skill. You would then need to take Wild Talent to qualify for Psionic Weapon.

Pretty sure Iaijutsu Focus doesn't stack with Sneak Attack, unfortunately...

8. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Originally Posted by FlyMolo
I am totally allowing this chicken-infested flaw in my game. This means you, guy.
Who me?

Originally Posted by FlyMolo
If you make cheese with it, you will be smited with counter-cheese.
It might be a tad difficult not to make cheese. The ability to produce an arbitrary number of chickens in one round, in and of itself, is already rather cheesy (Trap Finding Chicken Stampede, Chicken Solid Fog, Wall of Chickens etc).

Originally Posted by FlyMolo
But this is amazing stuff. For pure comedic value I'll let you take it for free on your next level-up.
Its a flaw, and a rather major flaw at that. Its difficult to use in any build that is not specifically designed around it. ("On no, I am dying! Wait, I think I had a potion in my belt pouch!" *cluck* *cluck*).

In fact its such a huge flaw, I reckon only Cheese can compensate for its shortcomings. ("On no, I am dying! Chicken Solid Fog! That should buy me some time. now if I can only find where I put that potion.")

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen
You could replace that psion level with more Rogue- Warblade gives Concentration as a class skill. You would then need to take Wild Talent to qualify for Psionic Weapon.
The Psion splash provides both the Psionic Focus AND a bonus Psion feat. So if I drop it, I would have to burn 2 feats to compensate.

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen
Pretty sure Iaijutsu Focus doesn't stack with Sneak Attack, unfortunately...
Really? Dang. I don't have OA so I wouldn't know. Tried googling it and this thread popped up, but it seems to suggest otherwise.

Reading that thread, the other thing I realize is that I don't think any of the above classes have Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill (another unfortunate side effect of not having OA). It seems that only Samurai and Sohei have it. So I might have to add a splash of one or the other. Another possibility that struck me was human paragon, but that has -1 BAB compared to Samurai.

Anyone know of any way to get it as a class skill? A feat perhaps? Also, other Chicken infested build ideas are still welcome.

9. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Able Learner as a human allows one skill to always be considered a class skill, IIRC.

10. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

I think there's an Iaijutsu Master PrC that gets it as a class skill; you need some ranks to enter the class, but you can pick them up cross-class with Able Learner, and then you get all kinds of extra Iaijutsu stuff and your maximum rank goes up to the full class-skill mark.

11. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Yes, you. Well, it would be amazing. And if you have Quick Draw, you just produce a certain number of chickens every time you draw something.

So you would get an extra feat, which you could spend on quick draw, mitigating the effects while producing chickens.

I can't believe I'm asking you to take a flaw. Urgh. I feel dirty.

12. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen
I think there's an Iaijutsu Master PrC that gets it as a class skill; you need some ranks to enter the class, but you can pick them up cross-class with Able Learner, and then you get all kinds of extra Iaijutsu stuff and your maximum rank goes up to the full class-skill mark.
If this is correct, then to qualify for Iaiajutsu master, I need 9 Iaijutsu focus, which can only be achieved cross class on level 15. As well as a bunch of rather useless feats (since katana is an exotic weapon, I need 2 feats to get Weapon Focus katana). Although the level 5 ability to add Cha bonus to each Iaijutsu damage hit die sounds quite good.

Squeezing everything in is going to be rather painful, and I will probably have to take Samurai anyway for Katana proficiency. And take Fighter levels to get a few extra feats to qualify.

It might look something like:

01: Commoner 1- Flaw: Chicken Infested, Flaw Feat: Weapon Proficiency: Chicken, Char Feat: Psionic Weapon, Human Feat: Able Learner
03: Samurai 1-Char Feat: Steady Concentration
04: Rogue 1
05: Psion 1-Psion Bonus Feat: Psionic Meditation (Req Concentration 7)
06: Rogue 2-Char Feat: Elusive Dance (req Perform Dance 5)
07: Rogue 3
08: Rogue 4
09: Rogue 5-Char Feat: Deep Impact (Req BAB 5)
10: Fighter 1- Fighter Feat: Improved Initiative
11: Rogue 6
12: Rogue 7-Char Feat: Quick Draw
13: Rogue 8
14: Rogue 9
15: Rogue 10-Char Feat: WF Katana, Rogue Feat: Crippling Strike
16: Iaiajutsu Master 1
17: Iaiajutsu Master 2
18: Iaiajutsu Master 3-Char Feat: ??? (Skill Focus Concentration?)
19: Iaiajutsu Master 4
20: Iaiajutsu Master 5

At level 20, Iaijutsu Focus would have 23 ranks, giving an avarage of 34.5 on Iaijutsu check, or 5(Cha Bonus + d6) bonus damage. Rogue 10 would give you 5d6 sneak attack. Add on Sapphire Nightmare 1d6 bonus bonus for a total of 10d6 + (5*Cha bonus) bonus damage (ave ~35 + 5*Cha) on a touch attack (if your Concentration can overcome their AC). Unfortunately, it is rather End heavy, with the Iaijutsu Cha benefit only kicking in at level 20.

One thing that is bothering me, is how to get Concentration high enough to overcome virtually any AC for Sapphire Nightmare. I included Skill Focus Concentration and Steady Concentration in the scheme above, but are there any other feats that could do better?

Originally Posted by FlyMolo
Yes, you. Well, it would be amazing. And if you have Quick Draw, you just produce a certain number of chickens every time you draw something.

So you would get an extra feat, which you could spend on quick draw, mitigating the effects while producing chickens.
Unfortunately, Quick draw won't get rid of the painful probability of drawing a Chicken when you need a potion, or a scroll, or anything that cannot be drawns as a free action, since Quick Draw only applies to weapons. Really, Chicken Solid Fog of cheese is virtually a necessity.

13. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Note that if you have any class that gives access to Iajitsu Focus, then you use the class skill cap for maximum ranks, not the cross-class cap. So if the OA Samurai does get it, then you can enter Iajitsu Master after only six levels.

For another way to boost concentration checks, the Shape Soulmeld feat to get Vitality Belt would give you a +4 morale bonus to all Constitution checks and Constitution-based skills (all one of them). It's not an untyped bonus like Skill Focus, so it won't stack with any other morale bonuses, but morale bonuses are pretty rare unless you have a bard in the party, anyway.

14. Re: Chicken Infested Builds

Originally Posted by Chronos
Note that if you have any class that gives access to Iajitsu Focus, then you use the class skill cap for maximum ranks, not the cross-class cap. So if the OA Samurai does get it, then you can enter Iajitsu Master after only six levels.
The reason why Iaijutsu master is taken last is because its quite hard to squeeze in all the feat needed to qualify, and the Psionic Weapon/Deep Impact/Psionic Meditation/Elusive Dance combo at the same time.

I also figured that a Marshal splash with Motivate Constitution minor Aura lets you add your Cha bonus to Con checks and skills (in this case Concentration). So splashing Marshal, lets you focus on pumping Cha to improve Iaiajutsu Focus, Iaijutsu Master bonus damage, AND Concentration checks.

And with that, I present the latest incarnation of Cluck-tousai the slasher, the Charismatic Chicken Master

01: Commoner 1- Flaw: Chicken Infested, Flaw Feat: Weapon Proficiency: Chicken, Char Feat: Psionic Weapon, Human Feat: Able Learner
03: Samurai 1-Char Feat: Quick Draw
04: Marshal 1-Motivate Constitution
05: Rogue 1
06: Rogue 2-Char Feat: Elusive Dance (req Perform Dance 5)
07: Psion 1-Psion Bonus Feat: Psionic Meditation (Req Concentration 7)
08: Rogue 3
09: Rogue 4-Char Feat: Deep Impact (Req BAB 5)
10: Rogue 5
11: Rogue 6
12: Rogue 7-Char Feat: Improved Initiative
13: Rogue 8
14: Rogue 9
15: Rogue 10-Char Feat: WF Katana, Rogue Feat: Crippling Strike
16: Iaiajutsu Master 1
17: Iaiajutsu Master 2
18: Iaiajutsu Master 3-Char Feat: Steady Concentration Or Shape Soulmeld
19: Iaiajutsu Master 4
20: Iaiajutsu Master 5

Edit: If the DM permits it, consider dropping 2 levels of Rogue for 2 Paladin, so that you can add your Cha bonus to saves, but you lose Crippling strike.

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