[4ed] Metallic Dragons

[Gorbash]

Am I missing something or there are no Metallic Dragons in 4th ed? In MM, only the Chromatic dragons are present, and Metallic are just mentioned... Wth?

[Talya]

Am I missing something or there are no Metallic Dragons in 4th ed? In MM, only the Chromatic dragons are present, and Metallic are just mentioned... Wth?

No good dragons.
No good outsider types.

There's an obvious pattern at work there...obviously, the only things worth mentioning are the things you stick the pointy end of your sword into.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Am I missing something or there are no Metallic Dragons in 4th ed? In MM, only the Chromatic dragons are present, and Metallic are just mentioned... Wth?

They're coming in a new Dragon Book, like the mythical Epic Martial Destinies.

[Kurald Galain]

Am I missing something or there are no Metallic Dragons in 4th ed? In MM, only the Chromatic dragons are present, and Metallic are just mentioned... Wth?

I think this is for the same reason that the evil gods got cut out from the player's handbook.

[Gorbash]

{Scrubbed}

I'm sooooo not playing this piece of crap...

[LoopyZebra]

Is it really that big a deal that they're gone? You could always homebrew them, or improvise with their chromatic counterparts (just re-fluff 'em). The system has enough merits that it isn't completely useless due to the lack of a once in a campaign encounter.

[Reel On, Love]

Why do you need the stats for metallic dragons, anyway? Planning on having some PCs kill them?

[SamTheCleric]

The metallic dragons are unaligned now anyway... take the corresponding chromatic dragons... and say they have a metallic sheen.

Metallic dragons are in some ways the opposite of the
chromatic dragons. Many of them are devoted to Bahamut
and share his ideals of nobility and virtue. Many others fail
to live up to those lofty ideals and succumb to a selfishness
and aggression that seems common among all of dragonkind.

There are also new dragon types... Catastrophic, Planar and Scourge. They arent in this monster manual either, they get the same paragraph long description as the metallic.

[Azerian Kelimon]

The metallic dragons are unaligned now anyway... take the corresponding chromatic dragons... and say they have a metallic sheen.

Gimme a Gold dragon, or a silver dragon. No correspondence there.

[Gorbash]

Yes, actually, it is. It's the principal on which the whole of the edition is based (stick 'em with the pointy end), kicking out some of the classes, not to mention races, introducing Tieflings and not Aasimars (or other planetouched, for that matter), making the rules simpler for the Average Joe (out of the whole grapple system they made a Grab attack which is just attack vs. reflex, and if you hit, the target is pinned), 29 spell levels, no evil gods... This just what I managed to see after a skim read of all the three books, and I seriously disapprove of the whole edition, as should any serious 3.5 gamer.

I just want to know WHY? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Why kick out gnomes? And Bronze Dragons? WHY?

[SamTheCleric]

Gimme a Gold dragon, or a silver dragon. No correspondence there.

Red and White. Done.

[Innis Cabal]

Yet another example of people looking at one thing and making an assumption on the whole rest of the game. So you cant kill good creatures, most people dont play evil anyway so whats the point?

[Reel On, Love]

Yes, actually, it is. It's the principal on which the whole of the edition is based (stick 'em with the pointy end), kicking out some of the classes, not to mention races, introducing Tieflings and not Aasimars (or other planetouched, for that matter), making the rules simpler for the Average Joe (out of the whole grapple system they made a Grab attack which is just attack vs. reflex, and if you hit, the target is pinned), 29 spell levels, no evil gods... This just what I managed to see after a skim read of all the three books, and I seriously disapprove of the whole edition, as should any serious 3.5 gamer.

Evil gods exist, they just aren't detailed in the PHB.
They kicked out some classes and races and brought in some new ones. This happens EVERY edition.
Simplifying the horrible, awful Grapple rules can NOT be a bad thing.

4E has its problems. The things you describe aren't among them.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Red and White. Done.

That is not a color inversion. Quoting you:

The metallic dragons are unaligned now anyway... take the corresponding chromatic dragons... and say they have a metallic sheen

Red never looked golden to me, and White dragons are the weakest of the lot, a far cry from the silver dragons, who can toe to toe it with reds.

I'm not saying your fix is bad, but you should phrase it better.

Gorbash: Gnomes are in the MM. They're not out.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

What the crap?

No evil deities mentioned in the PH, either? So are they outlawing Evil PCs?

Hell, even if that, a list of evil deities would be nice so you could know the enemy.

[Azerian Kelimon]

What the crap?

No evil deities mentioned in the PH, either? So are they outlawing Evil PCs?

Hell, even if that, a list of evil deities would be nice so you could know the enemy.

There is a list, they just aren't described in the thorough fashion that good and unaligned deities are. Want a list?

[Cuddly]

What the crap?

No evil deities mentioned in the PH, either? So are they outlawing Evil PCs?

Hell, even if that, a list of evil deities would be nice so you could know the enemy.

No, you just have to buy that patch.
I mean expansion.
I mean splatbook.

[SamTheCleric]

Yes the evil deities are in the PHB, they are just one line descriptions instead of the paragraph that the good/unaligned get. Hardly any difference, especially since there arent "domains" or anything mechanically related to your god, save for a single feat (channel divinity).

[Cybren]

Really though i always thought metallic dragons were dumb.

Red and black. that's all we need

[Illiterate Scribe]

But what does it matter, since we're all playing Sorrow McAngsticus, the Tiefling Warlock, who struggles daily with his inner darkness, yet really broodingly cool? Why bother even with the rule 'if it's a shiny dragon, don't kill it yet', when you can just slaughter anything that moves anyway? Even other humans/dragonborn/tieflings are on a lesser plane than you, inherently different with their inferior class templates.

Roll on 4e, I say.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Really though i always thought metallic dragons were dumb.

Red and black. that's all we need

We agree to come to blows, then. Because metallics, and Green and Blue dragons are awesome.

[Aquillion]

Yes the evil deities are in the PHB, they are just one line descriptions instead of the paragraph that the good/unaligned get. Hardly any difference, especially since there arent "domains" or anything mechanically related to your god, save for a single feat (channel divinity).

There are no rules for evil clerics in the PHB, though (they all channel radient energy.) The book is very, very clear that you're not supposed to make evil characters, and provides no real support for you if you do. We all know the problems having one evil person in a good party can cause, so it's not that much of a surprise.

Oh, and regarding dragons, the manditory comic.

[LoopyZebra]

There's also the possibility of not using the standard deities, I know I don't plan to, and I assume that a large number of players plan to use 3.5 core's deities or the deities of another published setting like Eberron or Forgotten Realms. Ultimately, a large number of these details are fluff, because the mechanics can be used to make the evil deities or good dragons or whatever. And fluff is supposed to be made up.

[Azerian Kelimon]

There are no rules for evil clerics in the PHB, though (they all channel radient energy.) The book is very, very clear that you're not supposed to make evil characters, and provides no real support for you if you do. We all know the problems having one evil person in a good party can cause, so it's not that much of a surprise.

Oh, and regarding dragons, the manditory comic.

That IS true.

My guess? One of the first three books is going to be The Nature of Evil or something like that, and it's gonna have a load of evil options. It's the WotC way.

[Gorbash]

Ok, Monks I understand. But Barbarians and Bards...? And why Gnomes? I love gnomes. Look at my signature, there's my all time favourite character, a gnome.

Gorbash: Gnomes are in the MM. They're not out.

As monsters. And as such, not playable as characters, since they introduced a whole separate set of monster advancment and classes.

Not to mention they kicked out Brass and Bronze, totally and replaced them with Adamantine and Iron.

Oh, and I like grapple rules as they are now.

[SamTheCleric]

No. Monsters are a playable race, there are a list of like 10-11 playable monster races in the back of the MM, including stat adjustments, encounter powers, etc.

Gnomes are one of them.

[LoopyZebra]

...As monsters. And as such, not playable as characters, since they introduced a whole separate set of monster advancement and classes.

There's rules for using them as PCs. Posted in another thread I believe, along with approximately 20 other monster manual critters for PC usage.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[Daracaex]

Yet another example of people looking at one thing and making an assumption on the whole rest of the game. So you cant kill good creatures, most people dont play evil anyway so whats the point?

Seconded. Wizards put only things the players would likely use or encounter in the core books, assuming a generic group. Thus, they detailed only evil beings that the players will kill, good gods that the players will follow, etc. Everything else will surely be detailed later in other books.

[Azerian Kelimon]

As monsters. And as such, not playable as characters, since they introduced a whole separate set of monster advancment and classes.

And? You just take their weakest power, look up their improved ability score, and make a race with that. Not that complicated.

[SamTheCleric]

Gnomes get +2 Int and +2 cha... May make a hide check when they roll initiative if they start in cover or with concealment... and once per encounter turn invisible for 1 round after being damaged.