Changing creature type permanently?

[Admiral Squish]

Okay, one of my characters is a Dolgrim. Some of you may have heard earlier posts about him. Dolgrims are small-sized abberations with four arms, basically two goblins mushed together by big evil dudes from the plane of madness. Anyway, he's reaching higher levels as we speak, and one of his main goals is to achieve true physical 'perfection'. I need some way to permanently change him from an abberation into some sort of humanoid. And no, dying is not an option, so no reincarnate. However, he's poured many, many feats into his four-armed fighting style, and I don't want to completely lose that. What should I do, and how do I do it?

[JackMage666]

I don't think you can turn into a Human, but there are a number of routes you can go to become an Outsider. Monk, Druid, a few Incarnate classes, and some others. That may be the best bet.

[MeklorIlavator]

I see two options here:
A) Some weird ritual that changes him to a unremarkable (Humaniod race X), and then use the PHB2 retraining rules except speed up the process so that he gains everything over 2 levels or something.

B) Some weird ritual that changes him to (Humaniod race X), but keeps the four arms.

The ritual could be anything you want. If you want to go by the rules, use PAO+ a wish/Miracle spell to make it a permanent, non-dispellable part of him.

[SCPRedMage]

My recommendation would be to look at Savage Species; it has information on characters permanently changing race, although it's geared towards becoming monster-races...

[holywhippet]

It might not be exactly permanent, but a ring with a constant polymorph enchantment on it would have the same effect.

There's also the theory of using the flesh to stone spell, stoneshape, stone to flesh combo.

[SydneyLosstarot]

well, you can try PAO+Wish into a Thri-Kreen.
They have four arms)

pity is, they have a lifespan of 30 years or about that.

[Admiral Squish]

So far, two suggestions of PAO+Miracle, one suggestion of flesh to stone, stone shape, and stone to flesh, and one suggestion about a book I don't own, and one about taking a lot of levels in a different class (that doesn't actually change my appearance). Any other ideas?

[Chronos]

I don't think you can turn into a Human, but there are a number of routes you can go to become an Outsider. Monk, Druid, a few Incarnate classes, and some others. That may be the best bet.

Probably the quickest of these is Knight of the Sacred Seal from Tome of Magic. You'd need one level of Binder to meet the prerequisites, then five of KotSS.

[Bag_of_Holding]

I'm sure PHB2 had Rebuilding option (not retraining) that allowed a PC to change his/her race. Don't have the book handy though- can someone confirm this?

[Kol Korran]

i remember it! the dolgrim who went up to the surface, found a temple of either dol dorn or the silver flame and converted it's beliefs, right?

how is it doing? please tell! i liked the idead quite a bit!
but as to your question (most of my solutions are fluff based. i got nothing mechanically):
- one comment before we begin: depending how you and your DM play it, you might need to get rid of the taint of Xoriat as well as the form (you're DR/Byeshk implies that some essence of the plane is in you) it could be done while changing form, or seperatly.

- one of the only sufficianitly high level casters in Eberron is the Jaela, the speaker of the flame (i might have got the title wrong). very few NPCs get even remotley close to her level of power. talk to the DM, maybe you could perform a service for her (or the council of cardinals) in order for her to use Miracle on your behalf? if you're a doer of good, and especially if you're a follower of the silver flame this could work out spectaculerily well, fluff wise.

- another route to take, that might be more problematic, is to seek the help of the druid sects, most notably the GateKeepers... you being what you are, the druids might become hostile instead, and some persuasion might be in order. however, you of all creatures may be especially suited for sepcific tasks, in return to which they might use their special methods to "cleanse" you. perhaps they could wish you to lead them down to the path the Khyber you used to go to the surface? maybe you're to lead an excursion down, to save/ exterminate the abominations below?

this could be a very ambiguos adventure, but one that might appeal very well to the personality and theme of the dolgrim. it may also "close loose ends"/ "bring a closure".

a side possibility: you might seek the Green Singers instead, and seek the help of they fey to help you instead.they have been known to imbue various people with essence of their own realm after all. maybe they have an idea of how to take it out as well?

- the last idea that i have, that might be quite darker in intent, is to seek Mordain the Fleshweaver (elf transmuter 18 from west Droaam). he has dealt with Daelkyr magic for centuries, and have even done his own experiments. he might be able to "make adjustments" to your form and type. the question is at what price... (mechanically, he can do it by a Wish, but i'd advise something a bit more... well, interesting).

i apologize for all of my ideas to be fluff wise, since i have no new game-rule ideas to suggest. however, with something this central to your character, i'd strongly advise not to jsut settle for the game rules solution- it is bland, feels "tricky", and contributes absolutley nothing in terms of satisfaction from the play- no real achievment and development.

talk with your DM, make attaining the change difficult, yet attainable, requiring a special quest/s (the search for possibilites can itself be a quest. this search could become a short term driving force behind your group if they are willing to accompany you. you could check some of the above possibilities, not just one)

hope this helped,
Kol

[Moral Wiz]

I'm sure PHB2 had Rebuilding option (not retraining) that allowed a PC to change his/her race. Don't have the book handy though- can someone confirm this?

Confirmed. It's designed with the idea in mind.

[Admiral Squish]

i remember it! the dolgrim who went up to the surface, found a temple of either dol dorn or the silver flame and converted it's beliefs, right?

how is it doing? please tell! i liked the idead quite a bit!
but as to your question (most of my solutions are fluff based. i got nothing mechanically):
- one comment before we begin: depending how you and your DM play it, you might need to get rid of the taint of Xoriat as well as the form (you're DR/Byeshk implies that some essence of the plane is in you) it could be done while changing form, or seperatly.

- one of the only sufficianitly high level casters in Eberron is the Jaela, the speaker of the flame (i might have got the title wrong). very few NPCs get even remotley close to her level of power. talk to the DM, maybe you could perform a service for her (or the council of cardinals) in order for her to use Miracle on your behalf? if you're a doer of good, and especially if you're a follower of the silver flame this could work out spectaculerily well, fluff wise.

- another route to take, that might be more problematic, is to seek the help of the druid sects, most notably the GateKeepers... you being what you are, the druids might become hostile instead, and some persuasion might be in order. however, you of all creatures may be especially suited for sepcific tasks, in return to which they might use their special methods to "cleanse" you. perhaps they could wish you to lead them down to the path the Khyber you used to go to the surface? maybe you're to lead an excursion down, to save/ exterminate the abominations below?

this could be a very ambiguos adventure, but one that might appeal very well to the personality and theme of the dolgrim. it may also "close loose ends"/ "bring a closure".

a side possibility: you might seek the Green Singers instead, and seek the help of they fey to help you instead.they have been known to imbue various people with essence of their own realm after all. maybe they have an idea of how to take it out as well?

- the last idea that i have, that might be quite darker in intent, is to seek Mordain the Fleshweaver (elf transmuter 18 from west Droaam). he has dealt with Daelkyr magic for centuries, and have even done his own experiments. he might be able to "make adjustments" to your form and type. the question is at what price... (mechanically, he can do it by a Wish, but i'd advise something a bit more... well, interesting).

i apologize for all of my ideas to be fluff wise, since i have no new game-rule ideas to suggest. however, with something this central to your character, i'd strongly advise not to jsut settle for the game rules solution- it is bland, feels "tricky", and contributes absolutley nothing in terms of satisfaction from the play- no real achievment and development.

talk with your DM, make attaining the change difficult, yet attainable, requiring a special quest/s (the search for possibilites can itself be a quest. this search could become a short term driving force behind your group if they are willing to accompany you. you could check some of the above possibilities, not just one)

hope this helped,
Kol

It was Dol Dorn, actually.

Oh, he's doing quite well! Mechanically, he's focused into combat with magic healing and buffs, with a metric crapton of MWF feats, and that DR/Byeshk really helps compensate his small stature. Fluffwise, he's been chased by gatekeepers, tried to disguise himself as a dwarf by wearing heavy armor all the time and putting two arms in each sleeve, has a weighty bounty out against him in Darguun, as his component goblins were both criminals (Don't ask, it's frikkin' wierd), and, of course, has been thwarting the twisted plots of the daelkyr. I think the DM is going to put up against one of the big ones soon, but I dunno.

Hmm. Jaela could work, but would take some convincing. He's not of her church, and it would be vaguely awkward. Still, he's probably not going to reach the levels needed for miracle on his own, so not much in the way fo options, there.

The gatekeepers are pretty militant in my DM's setting, no matter how nice a guy he is. Plus prior clashes have pushed them still further apart. Still, they might like a chance to 'fix' him.

He's not going to look for help from anybody who's done daelkyr-like experiments. He will simply not have it.

I will see what I can provoke from my DM in the way of rebuilding quests. He tends to like this sort of thing. Maybe a direct favor from Dol Dorn himself?

[Dhavaer]

The DMG2 has rules for an extra pair of arms, if you want to use a normally two armed race. The LA is very much inflated, though.

[Kol Korran]

It was Dol Dorn, actually.

Oh, he's doing quite well! Mechanically, he's focused into combat with magic healing and buffs, with a metric crapton of MWF feats, and that DR/Byeshk really helps compensate his small stature. Fluffwise, he's been chased by gatekeepers, tried to disguise himself as a dwarf by wearing heavy armor all the time and putting two arms in each sleeve, has a weighty bounty out against him in Darguun, as his component goblins were both criminals (Don't ask, it's frikkin' wierd), and, of course, has been thwarting the twisted plots of the daelkyr. I think the DM is going to put up against one of the big ones soon, but I dunno.

Hmm. Jaela could work, but would take some convincing. He's not of her church, and it would be vaguely awkward. Still, he's probably not going to reach the levels needed for miracle on his own, so not much in the way fo options, there.

The gatekeepers are pretty militant in my DM's setting, no matter how nice a guy he is. Plus prior clashes have pushed them still further apart. Still, they might like a chance to 'fix' him.

He's not going to look for help from anybody who's done daelkyr-like experiments. He will simply not have it.

I will see what I can provoke from my DM in the way of rebuilding quests. He tends to like this sort of thing. Maybe a direct favor from Dol Dorn himself?

first of all, thanks for the input on the Dolgrim's progress. i was a bit confused about you talking about the former two goblins- in my Eberron campaigns the creation of dolgrims and dolgaunts happened many centuries ago, and they are now true breeding races. you don't get "new" dogrims and dolgaunts, but that could work for another DM.

but back to your comments:
- in my campagins Jaela serves as a true spiritual being, far less concerned with the machinations and alligiances of the church. she is willing to accept and deal with all, and would gladly treat members of other faiths as her own if they display similar ideals. sort of... Dalai Lama, in that respect. if the DM is willing to play it so, then Jaela might consider granting you the miracle, if you prove yourself worthy of the principals, spirit, and ideals of the silverflame (pursuing good, actively fighting against evil and so on).

some of the church may resent you, and getting the interview with Jaela might be a task in itself, but i picture her as an actually pure and good person, who can see beyond your outer shell and chosen deity. i think it could work out beautifully realy, if you play it so. all depends on your DM.

- even if the gatekeepers are militant and unforgiving, i see at least 3 possible ways to make them listne to you, and perhaps work a deal with you. the first is that one (or a few) of them isn't that narrow minded. he might actually recognize your worth, and try to initiate some sort of conversation. s/he/they might even just be real curious about how a creature of such evil, turned to such good.

the second idea is that for some reason, a Seal/ location/ riddle/ obstacle requires the willing assistance of an abomination, specifically a daelkyr abomination/abberation (hey, it could even be in the draconic prophecy. i would certainly merit it an odd enough occurance). so they contact you, reluctently, (perhaps realising that all the past skirmishers were perhaps "destined from above" just so they'll know of you), to help them. in return they may suggest a technique/ procedure/ ritual to "cleasne" the taint from you (i like that word).

the third one,which is a bit more hamfisted, is for you to recieve an unexpected sort of ally (this works if the keepers realy, realy won't like dealing with you)- the wardens of the woods, especially Oalian... for some reason Oalian asks the keepers to work with you (or even some other druid sect), and you asks for your reward in return. i still suggest to use either the prophecy, or your unique staus as a willing aberration to expelain your involvement.

the thing is, you can make it happen.

- last comment: as to "a direct favor from Dol Dorn himself". Eberron is intended to be played as a very "shades of gray" sort of setting. the gods have never, ever, shown a real presence in the world. the people who follow them believein them, they don't know they exist. (and it's suppsoed to stay that way). so, if you want Dol DOrn to intervene, is suggest to speak with the DM and arrange one of the following:

forget about how it's intended to be played, and just have the god talk to you and do what you want. it's your game after all. however, if you've played the setting as intended this would could be too much of a stretch. or....

arrange some sort of other event or occurance, in which your type changes, but where you also see small ambiguos signs (to others, to you they are crystal clear of course!) of dol dorn. your character sees it as the influence of it's god, while others may attribute the change to other forces. note that all of the above examples (Jaela, the keepers) can be interperted as "tools of Dol Dorn" to which you are led. even the horrific Mordain Fleshweaver, kidnapping you and performing some procedure of you that ends up changing your type could be called an instrument of god ("he thought he will taint me more! ha! little did he know that the only reason i was cought, the only reason i lay under his table was the will of great Dol Dorn, who used my enemy to heal me, with it's divine wisdom!" sorrt of thing... you can probably make it better)

what i'm saying is- you don't need the god to smack you over the head with a miracle. a true believer will find miracles, and proof of his god's power everywehre...

hope this helped, keep us informed,
Kol.