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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Enlong's Avatar

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    Default Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    OK, so I'd like to hear you relate your stories or ideas on powerful or ingenious methods of protecting a Lich's phylactery. It can be something that actually happened, or something that you came up with and haven't tested.

    I'll start off with my favorite idea.

    You will need:
    1 Thought Bottle
    The raw materials for making a number of Stone Golems.
    The materials necessary for becoming a Lich.
    An incredibly hard-to-break miniscule object (a ring of Adamantine?) to use as a phylactery.
    Access to Stone to Flesh
    Access to Antimagic Field
    Access to Imprisonment
    Access to Permenancy
    the Sculpt Spell feat.

    What you do:
    1: Put your Experience into your Thought Bottle.
    2: Craft the bodies for a number of Stone Golems, but don't make them Golems yet.
    3: Become a Lich. Make your Phylactery something tiny, hard to see, and hard to break. Then cast Invisibility on it and Permanancy that, then put it deep into one of the Stone Golem bodies.
    4: Finish the construction of the Stone Golems.
    5: Take your golems to some secluded spot (I suggest a desert or plain with no landmarks, or a forest.)
    6: Order your golems to fail their next few Will saves, and to defend themselves at all costs, except from you.
    7: Single out the golem with your Phylactery in it.
    8: Cast Flesh to Stone on it to negate its Spell Immunity, then cast Imprisonment on it.
    9: Repeat the last step on all the other golems, making sure to Imprison them at the same spot.
    10: Cast Antimagic Field, using Sculpt Spell to make its area something other then an emanation, so that it just covers the spot where the Golems were Imprisoned.
    11: Make the Antimagic Field permanent. (note: if your DM disallows this, ask him what method NPCs use to make anti-magic cells, and use that.)
    11A: (optional) If you did this in a forest, plant a tree on the spot where the Golems went under, and then get a Druid to guard the forest.
    12: Open your Thought Bottle and reclaim all your lost Experience.

    Ta-dah!
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    The thought bottle is largely just a finishing touch.

    If you already have a phylactery, get an Immovable Rod. Two works better. Attach your phylactery to the rod/rods, then cast Fly and head straight up. 300 feet up or so, cast Invisibility on the rods and yourself. Head up higher. As high as your DM will let you go. And then head out over the ocean. Once you're there, permanency the invisibility on the rods(and push the buttons.), then recast Fly and invisibility on yourself and head back for land. The self invisibility is just so nobody can see you fly out there.

    If you have access to epic magic, cast animate object on the phylactery, permanency Resist energy cold/fire on it, then cast Nailed to The Sky on it. Nobody will ever find it. Especially if you permanency Invisibility or Etherealness on it first. Don't permanency the animate object, because objects are harder to find than creatures.

    Also, if you're a lich, repeat the trick with the golems, but on the dark side of the moon. You have Fly. You have Resist Energy. You have time on your hands. Go to it. Remember to be invisible on both legs of the journey.

    Or underground. Go Ethereal or something, float around underground till you find a good place, and ditch your phylactery. Of course, you have to respawn there. Ick. That's a major consideration for these, really. The Nailed To The Sky one still works.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    11: Make the Antimagic Field permanent. (note: if your DM disallows this, ask him what method NPCs use to make anti-magic cells, and use that.)
    Not possible. Permanency is a spell, so it will fail when cast on the area with the anti-magic field. Antimagic field isn't one of the spells it works on either.

    Anti-magic cells are made by enchanting an item with a constant effect anti-magic field. As such, it's tied to a particular item rather than a location.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Or underground. Go Ethereal or something, float around underground till you find a good place, and ditch your phylactery. Of course, you have to respawn there. Ick. That's a major consideration for these, really. The Nailed To The Sky one still works.
    Simply be an Archmage and take a Teleport SLA. Soon as you can, zap outta there.
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    Simply be an Archmage and take a Teleport SLA. Soon as you can, zap outta there.
    Mmm, but a mean DM will say that you can't recover spells if you're crushed under a thousand tons of earth. That probably doesn't count as restful sleep. An item of teleport other that you leave in orbit would work. Duct-taped to your phylactery, of course.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    Not possible. Permanency is a spell, so it will fail when cast on the area with the anti-magic field. Antimagic field isn't one of the spells it works on either.

    Anti-magic cells are made by enchanting an item with a constant effect anti-magic field. As such, it's tied to a particular item rather than a location.
    Right. do that then. Go ethereal and stick the Atimagic object somewhere underground so that the field will cover the Imprisonment spot. Then get out of the area and turn it on.
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Mmm, but a mean DM will say that you can't recover spells if you're crushed under a thousand tons of earth. That probably doesn't count as restful sleep. An item of teleport other that you leave in orbit would work. Duct-taped to your phylactery, of course.
    Ah, but you don't need to "recover spells" to use it. Simply keep one use of it in reserve, just in case. You activate SLAs mentally, without any other components.
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    IF you trust your god, give it to them. That's about the best protection possible.

    If you don't trust your god, there is no best method. A Wizard will find a way to destroy it.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Give it to a skeleton.
    Order the skeleton into a portable hole.
    Follow it in.
    Cast Imprisonment on it.
    Chuck a Bag of Holding into the Hole.
    Ta-da!

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    Give it to a skeleton.
    Order the skeleton into a portable hole.
    Follow it in.
    Cast Imprisonment on it.
    Chuck a Bag of Holding into the Hole.
    Ta-da!
    What? Is there... is there any earth inside the Hole?

    How can you be imprisoned inside the astral....

    GAH!
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Take your Phylactery and a Spellbook with Teleport. Make an item of Antimagic Field, Widened(or 2 items of AMF) and an Item of Dimension Lock, both continuous(with the items deactivating for 6 seconds if touched by you, then reactivating), and both left far away for now. Cast Wall of Force+Permanancy, making the wall into a circle whose area can fit entirely within the AMF. Cast Wish, asking for Reverse Gravity, only aimed sideways(fairly reasonable). Cast Wall of Force+Permanancy, this time adding a roof and floor to your circle(thereby avoiding the "vertical" issue). Go inside your room. Cast Prismatic Sphere+Permanancy, making sure it is entirely within the walls and floor. Teleport out, grab the items, touch all of them, teleport back with items+Phylactery+spellbook. Leave the Phylactery and spellbook inside the sphere with the item of Dimension Lock, and leave the AMF outside, but inside the Walls of Force(which are within the radius of the AMF). Congadulations, the Phylactery now requires either Disjunction(maybe) or a Sphere of Annihilation to destroy.

    And then put it on the Positive Energy Plane guarded by Vampires.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Any one of a number of methods for making people into vestiges work here. The trick with two planes and 4 castings of Gate is dubious.

    My favorite, and cheapest, is Maze+Transdimensional Maze. When the first maze expires, there's nowhere for the second maze to deposit them. Bam, vestige. That does leave the question of where you come back after you're destroyed. Clawing your way back into reality every time? A beast.

    And don't bother with a skeleton, try instead an animated object. It works better, and later expires, leaving the object wherever.

    Stone golems and the moon for me, I suspect. With a double-blind immovable rod trick, and another one underground somewhere.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Make it a grain of sand.
    Animate it, giving it a land speed and somehow a burrow speed.
    Disguise its magic aura.
    Put it on a beach, and order it to run away from living creatures.

    Animating it may not be possible, though.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    And then put it on the Positive Energy Plane guarded by Vampires.
    That's always a good way to protect something, if you can manage it. The longer they take to find it, the harder it is to get.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Chocobo View Post
    Make it a grain of sand.
    Animate it, giving it a land speed and somehow a burrow speed.
    Disguise its magic aura.
    Put it on a beach, and order it to run away from living creatures.

    Animating it may not be possible, though.
    If this gets out(which is entirely possible) it would be fairly easy to get. Get zombies to pick up the whole damn beach, and pour it through a narrow trough, with a hampster on one side and a small cup on the other. Eventually, one grain of sand will jump into the cup. Order a zombie to cap the cup, and go destroy it.

    Sadly, you can't make your phlactery a grain of sand.

    Animate object, then Flesh to Stone, and Stone to Mud, then scatter the mud. Hasn't technically been destroyed, but impossible to destroy without nuking the earth.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    IF you trust your god, give it to them. That's about the best protection possible.

    If you don't trust your god, there is no best method. A Wizard will find a way to destroy it.
    I dunno. I think the combination of my method with Fly's idea of placing it on the moon makes it as close to Wizard-proof as makes no odds, outside of Epic Magic (in which case the lich could probably just place some Epic curse on knowledge of the phylactery or something).

    I also have an addendum to my method.
    After sticking the Golems underground, go Ethereal and put Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum around them, Permanancied.
    Then put another Permanencied Private Sanctum around the spot of Imprisonment, But just so, so that the cloudiness is not visible. For extra effect, cast an earth-moving spell to collapse a small mountain of rubble on top of the spot. Then place the AMF object so that the field surrounds the spot of Imprisonment but so that the outer edge is within the Private Sanctum.
    Congratulations. Your Phylactery is now guarded by an army of temporally-locked golems, invisible, freaking small, and hard to break. Furthermore, it is far below the surface of the moon, and cannot by scryed upon by any means, and cannot be released from its Imprisonment unless someone goes to the moon, discovers and removes the antimagic-object, and casts Freedom on the spot where the golems were imprisoned. All with no prior indication of where it is, due to Private Sanctum jamming all their divinations. Not even a Wish spell is powerful enough to tell them where it is.

    As a finishing flourish, make an item that replicates the status spell, link it to the Phylactery-keeper, and lock it under the moon with him, so that you and only you know the status of that golem.
    Last edited by Enlong; 2008-06-02 at 11:17 PM.
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    What? Is there... is there any earth inside the Hole?

    How can you be imprisoned inside the astral....

    GAH!
    Haha!
    The only valid entry point no longer exists!
    The only way in... is you, dying!

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    I dunno. I think the combination of my method with Fly's idea of placing it on the moon makes it as close to Wizard-proof as makes no odds, outside of Epic Magic (in which case the lich could probably just place some Epic curse on knowledge of the phylactery or something).

    I also have an addendum to my method.
    After sticking the Golems underground, go Ethereal and put Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum around them, Permanancied.
    Then put another Permanencied Private Sanctum around the spot of Imprisonment, But just so, so that the cloudiness is not visible. For extra effect, cast an earth-moving spell to collapse a small mountain of rubble on top of the spot. Then place the AMF object so that the field surrounds the spot of Imprisonment but so that the outer edge is within the Private Sanctum.
    Congratulations. Your Phylactery is now guarded by an army of temporally-locked golems, invisible, freaking small, and hard to break. Furthermore, it is far below the surface of the moon, and cannot by scryed upon by any means, and cannot be released from its Imprisonment unless someone goes to the moon, discovers and removes the antimagic-object, and casts Freedom on the spot where the golems were imprisoned. All with no prior indication of where it is, due to Private Sanctum jamming all their divinations. Not even a Wish spell is powerful enough to tell them where it is.

    As a finishing flourish, make an item that replicates the status spell, link it to the Phylactery-keeper, and lock it under the moon with him, so that you and only you know the status of that golem.
    This is clever, but has a single failing. It's spottable if you fly around the moon. A huge mound of rubble will make an impression, even though the dark side of the moon is sodding huge. And anyone capable of taking out the defenses around it is definitely doing laps around the moon, if only to prove they can.

    Excavate a hole, cast everything from inside it, then backfill it carefully. Best of all, tunnel down a ways, so that you're a mile or so down, then throw down your protections.

    I'm trying to think of way to work quintessence into this, but I can't think of one. Oh, I've got a clever one. Phase door, then put the antimagic doohickey in the phase door. Permanency. What now. Trouble is, permanency and phase door won't work in an antimagic field.

    I think this is pretty much perfect. The Private Sanctum won't work inside an antimagic field, but most divinations should be blocked by the mile or so of rock, plus an antimagic field( divinations get blocked by an antimagic field, Or it would appear that way.). Nondetection on all those golems would be good. Especially cleverly, get a bunch of incorporeal undead, put them around your golems and around your Imprisonment spot, then get the antimagic field in place. When the antimagic field is moved, the incorporeal undead wink into existence and kill whoever's doing the moving.

    Allips, shadows, Greater Shadows, spectres and wraiths are your options in Core. A Shadow of the Void and a Shape of Fire would be good too, if you have epic.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    If you have epic magic, summon 10^x Solars and animate the moon to defend it for you.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    If you have epic magic, summon 10^x Solars and animate the moon to defend it for you.
    Epic Magic-> epic enemies. Epic enemies-> Someone clever with a bunch of bricks and items of reverse gravity. Ducttape items to bricks. Let go. Watch as bricks accelerate upwards towards the moon. Cackle with glee as the bricks punch 800 mile deep holes through the moon. Yes really. I did the math around here somewhere.

    So animating the moon would really only clue people in to its position.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Make an Epic Spell as your phylactery. As long as the spell exists, so do you.
    It costs money and XP, and you make it, so it fits the bill exactly.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Epic Magic-> epic enemies. Epic enemies-> Someone clever with a bunch of bricks and items of reverse gravity. Ducttape items to bricks. Let go. Watch as bricks accelerate upwards towards the moon. Cackle with glee as the bricks punch 800 mile deep holes through the moon. Yes really. I did the math around here somewhere.

    So animating the moon would really only clue people in to its position.
    I really want to see this math now, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Did it account for the gravitational field of the sun and so on?

    Also, you could probably give the moon class levels and feats to help it protect itself.
    Last edited by monty; 2008-06-02 at 11:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    This is clever, but has a single failing. It's spottable if you fly around the moon. A huge mound of rubble will make an impression, even though the dark side of the moon is sodding huge. And anyone capable of taking out the defenses around it is definitely doing laps around the moon, if only to prove they can.

    Excavate a hole, cast everything from inside it, then backfill it carefully. Best of all, tunnel down a ways, so that you're a mile or so down, then throw down your protections.

    I'm trying to think of way to work quintessence into this, but I can't think of one. Oh, I've got a clever one. Phase door, then put the antimagic doohickey in the phase door. Permanency. What now. Trouble is, permanency and phase door won't work in an antimagic field.

    I think this is pretty much perfect. The Private Sanctum won't work inside an antimagic field, but most divinations should be blocked by the mile or so of rock, plus an antimagic field( divinations get blocked by an antimagic field, Or it would appear that way.). Nondetection on all those golems would be good. Especially cleverly, get a bunch of incorporeal undead, put them around your golems and around your Imprisonment spot, then get the antimagic field in place. When the antimagic field is moved, the incorporeal undead wink into existence and kill whoever's doing the moving.

    Allips, shadows, Greater Shadows, spectres and wraiths are your options in Core. A Shadow of the Void and a Shape of Fire would be good too, if you have epic.
    Freaking awesome.
    I would say that the mound is just a small mound to cover the cloudiness of the Sanctum, but the tunneling thing is so much better. Especially since the golems are even DEEPER now. As for the Sanctum not working in an AMF, you put the sanctum around the AMF. The divinations can't penetrate the Sanctum to get to the AMF.
    Quintessence isn't needed, 'cause the golems are Time-locked by the Imprisonment. Oh, wait. I got it. When you're filling in the hole, leave a big cavity around the spot of Imprisonment, and fill it with Quintessence, just to screw with people more. Speaking of cavities in stone, you hollow out another cavity some distance from the golems and fill that with yet another sanctum. It's still under the stone so it's not visible, and that becomes the place where you teleport to before layering spells upon you to be undetected as you zap back to planetside.

    additional thing to the incorporeals. Make sure they're inside the Sanctum, and have one non-fighter whose purpose is to move out of the Sanctum and inform you via a permanent Telepathic Bond when stuff goes down.
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    Make an Epic Spell as your phylactery. As long as the spell exists, so do you.
    It costs money and XP, and you make it, so it fits the bill exactly.
    Not quite. A contingent spell might work. You need Craft Wonderous Item, and it says that other forms of phylactery are permitted, such as rings, etc, or other items. That or other items gets you. A contingent spell is treated pretty much like an item in all other ways. A contingent spell on an otherwise unassuming pebble, wrapped in quintessence and ignored, while the other protections outlined above are laboriously set up on the moon.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlong View Post
    I dunno. I think the combination of my method with Fly's idea of placing it on the moon makes it as close to Wizard-proof as makes no odds, outside of Epic Magic (in which case the lich could probably just place some Epic curse on knowledge of the phylactery or something).
    How to get to a specific location on the Moon:

    Step 1. Plane Shift.

    Step 2. Plane Shift back to the Material Plane. Destination: anywhere on the Moon.

    Step 3: Teleport there.

    The rest is elementary for a Batman Wizard.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Not quite. A contingent spell might work. You need Craft Wonderous Item, and it says that other forms of phylactery are permitted, such as rings, etc, or other items. That or other items gets you. A contingent spell is treated pretty much like an item in all other ways. A contingent spell on an otherwise unassuming pebble, wrapped in quintessence and ignored, while the other protections outlined above are laboriously set up on the moon.
    But then you can be destroyed by the contingency beign fulfilled.
    And no matter how impossible the circumstances...
    Hey, it's like the Death Star!

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Not quite. A contingent spell might work. You need Craft Wonderous Item, and it says that other forms of phylactery are permitted, such as rings, etc, or other items. That or other items gets you. A contingent spell is treated pretty much like an item in all other ways. A contingent spell on an otherwise unassuming pebble, wrapped in quintessence and ignored, while the other protections outlined above are laboriously set up on the moon.
    Actually, the feat is Craft Contingent Spell, I think.

    And of course both of these are blinds for the real phylactery that is hidden in a portable hole-Bag of Holding glitch as described Collin152
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    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    How to get to a specific location on the Moon:
    Step 1. Plane Shift.
    Step 2. Plane Shift back to the Material Plane. Destination: anywhere on the Moon.
    Step 3: Teleport there.
    The rest is elementary for a Batman Wizard.
    Oh, the on-the-moon bit is just to discourage visitors. Actually getting there is easy. Overland flight, bottle of air, necklace of adaptation, whatever. The trick is nobody will be digging around on the dark side of the moon.

    Edit: Yes, you need craft contingent spell for that. Just set the contingencies to be impossible. Actually impossible, not just naked and dressed(wearing a net) or something like that.
    Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-06-02 at 11:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    Oh, the on-the-moon bit is just to discourage visitors. Actually getting there is easy. Overland flight, bottle of air, necklace of adaptation, whatever. The trick is nobody will be digging around on the dark side of the moon.
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    Default Re: Best methods of Phylactery Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    How to get to a specific location on the Moon:

    Step 1. Plane Shift.

    Step 2. Plane Shift back to the Material Plane. Destination: anywhere on the Moon.

    Step 3: Teleport there.

    The rest is elementary for a Batman Wizard.
    Coupla questions:
    1: How is he breathing?
    2: How does he know of the phylactery (the spot of Imprisonment, and the golem with the invisible ring are both wrapped in Private Sanctums, which nix any divination attempts. And if I were a lich this cautious, I'd not speak of it, not to mention periodic Mind Blanks.)
    3: How does he know where it is? (again, Private Sanctum and Nondetections, as well as being miles under the barren surface with no real landmarks to go by)
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    Many thanks to El Goonish Shive for the banner image.

    Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

    Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

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