The Argent Savant

[Deth Muncher]

Ok, I'm trying to see if making an AS would be a good idea. I mean, I know it loses a CL, which goes against the link in the ol' siggeroo, but still. I'm thinking about either going into this as my current character...well, once he completely returns to the Material Plane , or possibly making a new character. Both options would involve a Sorceror. As I see it, you can't do it until Character Level 11, because 5th level spells go into effect at CL10. Is it possible to do it sooner? And is it really as good as it seems? I see craziness like...permanancy-ing all Force-related shields onto my person (doesn't matter if it wouldn't normally work, it'll probbably fly with my DM), then proceeding to kick arse with nifty force-spells and such. Thoughts?

[Innis Cabal]

Something else to think about, if you get high enough to do it. Pick up force missle mage. With AS it will be a killer combo, you do lose another CL or two(At most) but it will make you deadly in combat. I think you can enter into the Force Missle Mage pretty early, and sadly you cant pick up ARdent Savant untill later into your carrer, regardless of what you do.

I've played the above build before and had a blast all the way to 20 and beyond

[Deth Muncher]

Something else to think about, if you get high enough to do it. Pick up force missle mage. With AS it will be a killer combo, you do lose another CL or two(At most) but it will make you deadly in combat. I think you can enter into the Force Missle Mage pretty early, and sadly you cant pick up ARdent Savant untill later into your carrer, regardless of what you do.

I've played the above build before and had a blast all the way to 20 and beyond

Oh, I'm intrigued! What book can I find that in?

[Innis Cabal]

its actually from a dragon. It allows you to get extra missles for your magic missle spell, allows you to change force to an elemental foce of your choice at will. Your magic missles do extra damage and become stilled and silenced, all from a level 5 PrC. With AS that little level 1 spell (and you've said your going sorcerer so thats absolutly perfect) is now a powerful spell even up to level 20.

[tyckspoon]

Force Missile Mage was reprinted (possibly updated, I haven't seen the original) in the Dragon Compendium. It takes Combat Casting and 9 ranks in.. well, a couple of skills you're going to be taking anyway as a spellcaster, so no worries there. It does drop a caster level at 1st, tho. Which is annoying and will delay picking up Argent Savant. It's still an entertaining build, and one I've been considering playing myself. But I don't think I'd do it with a Sorcerer; the delayed spell progression on the base class is enough of a drag without losing caster levels as well.

[Deth Muncher]

There is, thankfully, a quick fix to the whole "knowing less spells" thing: Knowstones! If I make a new guy, the WBL should let me pick up a few to suppliment my lack of knowledge. Off to go search through my Dragon PDFs to find it, unless someone knows the issue #?

[Innis Cabal]

Sorcerer really is the best way to go, ive tried both wizard and sorcerer. Its an awsome build. Not ultra-powerful or batman but it really is a fun, unique, and powerful build in its own right. One to try for sure

[Solo]

The only way to truely know is to try. You might want to use a specialist wizard to get there faster, though.

[Deth Muncher]

haHAha! Solo rears his head! You, having rendered the amazing Sorceror guide, must know things on this. Is the ultimately losing 2 caster levels by using these two classes, Argent Savant and Force Missile Adept, made up by the nifty bonuses contained therein?

[Collin152]

haHAha! Solo rears his head! You, having rendered the amazing Sorceror guide, must know things on this. Is the ultimately losing 2 caster levels by using these two classes, Argent Savant and Force Missile Adept, made up by the nifty bonuses contained therein?

Two questions are all you need:

1) Do I still cast spells?

2) Are there people in the party who don't cast spells?

If the answer to both is yes, you're still sitting pretty.

[cupkeyk]

I wanted to make one too with the next levels in abjurant champion. Your force abjuration spells that grant AC's bonuses will sky rocket. i was thinking of using the web enhancement kobold because it gets martial weapon profieciency light pick for free and can get the greater draconic rite of passage to compensate for the caster level loss of Argent savant..

[Deth Muncher]

Oh, and sory if I forgot this, but if it matters to you folks, I'm also going to use the Spell Reflecty alternate class feature from Dungeonscape. Or I think it's Dungeonscape. The one with Factotum in it.

[Deth Muncher]

Two questions are all you need:

1) Do I still cast spells?

2) Are there people in the party who don't cast spells?

If the answer to both is yes, you're still sitting pretty.

Actually, to be more specific, "I cast the spells that make the peoples fall down."

Sorry, but with Solo having visited the thread, I felt I couldn't resist.

Also, offtopic question @ Solo: Thoughts on 8-Bit reaching Episode 1000?

[monty]

haHAha! Solo rears his head! You, having rendered the amazing Sorceror guide, must know things on this. Is the ultimately losing 2 caster levels by using these two classes, Argent Savant and Force Missile Adept, made up by the nifty bonuses contained therein?

Losing caster levels is bad, and blasting is bad, but you're still way ahead of the non-casters.

[Solo]

Actually, to be more specific, "I cast the spells that make the peoples fall down."

Sorry, but with Solo having visited the thread, I felt I couldn't resist.

Also, offtopic question @ Solo: Thoughts on 8-Bit reaching Episode 1000?

It's over 900!

Is the ultimately losing 2 caster levels by using these two classes, Argent Savant and Force Missile Adept, made up by the nifty bonuses contained therein?

No, it isn't but that doesn't mean you lose style.

Generally, though, when playing a blaster, you want as high a CL as possible combined with high level spell slots, and tons of metamagic to deal out MASSIVE DAMAGE!

If you can still do that with the loss of 2 CL, you won't be gimped too much.

[Deth Muncher]

No, it isn't but that doesn't mean you lose style.

Generally, though, when playing a blaster, you want as high a CL as possible combined with high level spell slots, and tons of metamagic to deal out MASSIVE DAMAGE!

If you can still do that with the loss of 2 CL, you won't be gimped too much.

Hm. Well, I'm trying to figure out if I can do just that. Unfortunately, it seems like I can only do 7d4+7 missiles max with FMM. Although, I think with Argent Savant, I can do an additional +1 per die, so actually, it's 7d4+14, which has a range of 21 to 42 damage, autohit. I don't suppose I can Quicken it, can I? If I can Quicken and Maximize it, suddenly I have (7d4+14)x2, or 84 autohit per round at a...what, 5th level spell? I don't know how that compares to other 5th level spells though.

Oh, and not to mention I can burn through SR. And I can alter the energy subtype. So, lets see, I alter the energy subtype to (Force/Eletricity). Then I use that feat that lets me add sonic damage to any electric attack. I do not, however, remember the mechanics of that faet, only that it's necesary for the "Locate City Bomb."

[Eurus]

Then I use that feat that lets me add sonic damage to any electric attack. I do not, however, remember the mechanics of that faet, only that it's necesary for the "Locate City Bomb."

"Born of the Three Thunders" or somesuch, I believe. I think it converts into half Electric/half Sonic, but I'm not certain.

[Deth Muncher]

Okay. So here's the plan. A friend of mine is gonna start a new campaign using Sandstorm rules. We're starting at Lv 8. I'm thinking, Sor3/FMM5? I realized i'd only be Caster Level 7, meaning I'll only have third level spells, but, I mean, it could be worse. Once I get to Level 10, I'll PrC into Argent Savant. Thoughts?

EDIT: Actually, I'd need to be level 11 so I could cast 5th level spells.

[Innis Cabal]

Take practiced spell caster, you still have access as a sorcerer a level lower(with the FMM) and then two with AS, but youll cast at your full CL. Youll still get 9nth level spells sitting at 18 sorcerer with a 20 CL.

[Deth Muncher]

Take practiced spell caster, you still have access as a sorcerer a level lower(with the FMM) and then two with AS, but youll cast at your full CL. Youll still get 9nth level spells sitting at 18 sorcerer with a 20 CL.

Ok, wait. I must be confused about what Practiced Spellcaster does, then. Where's it located?

[Innis Cabal]

Its in Complete Arcane. It dosnt open up caster levels you would have as if you gained levels in the class itself, it just makes your Caster Level the level you actually are

[FinalJustice]

Would Chain Missile (SpC) be affected by Force Missile Mage goodness? If yes, sounds solid. It's like a Twinned Chained Magic Missile as a 3th level spell. Arcane Thesis it and you can do some metamagic spamming to fire Twinned Empowered Maximized Splited Blistering Chain Missiles of The Three Thunders of Doom. And quicken to do it again. Sounds fun!

[Innis Cabal]

That'd be up to DM ruling, i convinced mine to let me, but not all DM's are as open to such things. And if it is, nothing is stopping you from researching your own spells in the MM line :P

[Maerok]

Hmm, how would Sorcerer 6/Force Missile Mage 5/Argent Savant 5/Abjurant Champion 4 look?

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

1) You can't get into FMM that quickly.

2) It's a build that can be fun in some games.

3) Take practiced Spellcaster. Take the Reserve Feat that gives +1 to CL of Force spells.

Then take the Sorcerer spells:

Magic missile
The third level version of Magic missile, ask your DM if missle stuff can be added to this too.
Arcane Fusion, and Arcane Fusion greater.

Use Arcane Fusion to fire off multiple Magic Missile spells per standard action, or even the higher level version + Magic Missile. Then use Greater Arcane Fusion to cast Arcane Fusion and Magic Missile (Using the Arcane Fusion to cast more Magic Missiles). 2 level 3 versions of Magic Missile and one magic missile in a single standard action, and then Quicken a Magic Missile. You'll have over 30 missiles shooting out of your hands in a single round.

[Deth Muncher]

1) You can't get into FMM that quickly.

2) It's a build that can be fun in some games.

3) Take practiced Spellcaster. Take the Reserve Feat that gives +1 to CL of Force spells.

Then take the Sorcerer spells:

Magic missile
The third level version of Magic missile, ask your DM if missle stuff can be added to this too.
Arcane Fusion, and Arcane Fusion greater.

Use Arcane Fusion to fire off multiple Magic Missile spells per standard action, or even the higher level version + Magic Missile. Then use Greater Arcane Fusion to cast Arcane Fusion and Magic Missile (Using the Arcane Fusion to cast more Magic Missiles). 2 level 3 versions of Magic Missile and one magic missile in a single standard action, and then Quicken a Magic Missile. You'll have over 30 missiles shooting out of your hands in a single round.

Good lord! And they're all 1d4+2, so you've got from 90 to 180 autohitting nigh-unblockable damage per round. Gwarsh.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Remember, if you're playing a sorceror, you can make up the lost spellcasting levels with the Greater Rite of Draconic Passage, from the RotD web enhancement. +1 level of sorc casting for free can't hurt.

[Jack_Simth]

1) You can't get into FMM that quickly.

You're confusing Force Missle Mage with Argent Savant. FMM can be taken after 6th (requires a 1st level spell, 9 ranks in two class-skills for Sorcerers, Wizards, or Clerics with the Force domain (!)). It's Argent Savant that requires 5th level spells. The build is valid.

2) It's a build that can be fun in some games.

More specifically, it's a build that's fun in games where you're not required to optimize too much, and the other players don't optimize too much. It is, when it comes down to it, still a blaster build.

3) Take practiced Spellcaster. Take the Reserve Feat that gives +1 to CL of Force spells.

Definitely. And it's called Invisible Needle, by the way.

[Solo]

Be sure to give your character a catchy catch phrase, such as "I use the Force!"

[Jack_Simth]

Remember, if you're playing a sorceror, you can make up the lost spellcasting levels with the Greater Rite of Draconic Passage, from the RotD web enhancement. +1 level of sorc casting for free can't hurt.

Well, not free - it requires a feat, requires you play a kobold (con penalty bites, as does the light blindness, but the rest is handy, meaningless, or harmless for a caster - try a Desert Kobold (UA racial variant) if you can swing it), and removes a few HP permanently. Plus you spend a gem.