Diffrence between 3.0 and 3.5?

[Gamerlord]

I play 3.5 in PnP format but i also play NWN which i hear is 3.0 and I don't see any difference between the rules.

[Flickerdart]

Balance stuff, mostly. I heard a lot of 3.0 stuff was so broken.

[marjan]

Which NWN? If it is NWN 2 then you don't see difference because NWN2 is based on 3.5 (though it has its own specific rules).

As for NWN 1 - the biggest difference is Haste. In 3.0 it gave extra standard action per turn and +4 AC, while 3.5 version gives extra attack, +1 to-hit, AC and reflex save.
Next: when you score a critical hit all damage is multiplied, even the extra dice, but not SA (not sure if it was NWN or 3.0 rule). In 3.5 you don't multiply extra dice.
Next: monk's iterative attacks are at -3 penalty, and flurry of blows is always -2 to attacks, and you only get one extra attack.
Next: DR is in form of DR/+X, not DR/magic, DR/adamantine and so on...

These are the only one that I can remember right now, but I must say I'm not an expert on 3.0, so I probably missed something.

[Jack Zander]

The biggest spell nerf was harm and heal.

3.0 harm: touch attack, no save, target has 1d4 hp remaining.
3.5 harm: touch attack, will half, 10 damage per caster level.

[Curmudgeon]

As marjan stated, 3.0 Haste was "broken" in that it was the sine qua non of spells. Darkness actually made things dark, instead of creating "shadowy illumination" as it does in 3.5.

3.0 Skills were a bit different:

• a few more skills
• class-specific skills, whereas all skills are available to all classes in 3.5
• skills that could do magical-type stuff without spellcasting ability (Alchemy, Scry); these are gone in 3.5

Also, two-weapon fighting was even wimpier than in 3.5. Tripping was a sometimes useful tactic, instead of a virtual requirement for any strength-based fighter the way it is in 3.5. (In 3.0 standing from prone didn't provoke an attack of opportunity).

Please note that NWN (the original) includes some shortcuts to the 3.0 rules, so that many combat effects are easier to achieve.

[Chronos]

Next: when you score a critical hit all damage is multiplied, even the extra dice, but not SA (not sure if it was NWN or 3.0 rule). In 3.5 you don't multiply extra dice.

You didn't multiply extra dice in 3.0, either.

Some other notes:
On the other side of the Haste coin, 3.0 Haste only affected one target, while 3.5 affects multiple. 3.0 also had a Mass Haste spell, but it was considerably higher level.
Holy Word and its equivalents got hugely more powerful in 3.5 than they were in 3.0, since they scale with caster level in 3.5, but didn't in 3.0
Perform was a single skill in 3.0, but got broken up into several in 3.5. To make up for this, bards went from 4 skill points to 6.
The bard spell list was also expanded considerably, and became much more useful.
Rangers also got an increase from 4 to 6 skillpoints, as well as several other changes (HD went from d10 to d8, and their special abilities got spread out over their entire progression, instead of being front-loaded at the lower levels).
Some things changed names: 3.0 Wilderness Lore skill is 3.5 Survival, and 3.0 Pick Pockets skill is 3.5 Sleight of Hand.

[Talya]

In addition to what's mentioned above, other minor changes:

Rangers only got 4+int skills per level, but had a d10 hit die.
Bards only got 4+int skills per level.

Weapon size didn't exist the same way in 3.0...

Keen and Improved Crit stacked. (So yes, with the weapon master PRC and a falchion/scimitars/kukris, he was managing to threaten a crit on rolls of 10-20, at x3.)

I'm forgetting some stuff I'm sure.

The core rules didn't change a lot.

[mithrandir86]

In addition to what's mentioned above, other minor changes:

Rangers only got 4+int skills per level, but had a d10 hit die.
Bards only got 4+int skills per level.

Weapon size didn't exist the same way in 3.0...

Keen and Improved Crit stacked. (So yes, with the weapon master PRC and a falchion/scimitars/kukris, he was managing to threaten a crit on rolls of 10-20, at x3.)

I'm forgetting some stuff I'm sure.

The core rules didn't change a lot.

Vorpal also worked on any critical hit, not just a natural 20, making the aforementioned weapons behead any creature on a roll of 10 or higher.

[sheepofoblivion]

point five

[holywhippet]

Weapon sizes vs. creature sizes changed.
Rangers picked up some extra, free feats to make them better.
Some spells work differently. Identify had an 8 hour casting time in 3.0 and only gave you the most basic magical function of an item. In 3.5 it only takes 1 hour and tells you pretty much everything.

[Collin152]

point five

Negative point five, dear, but nice try.

[sheepofoblivion]

I thought that difference (although a form of subtraction) was put into absolute value. Therefore, it would be .5

[Collin152]

I thought that difference (although a form of subtraction) was put into absolute value. Therefore, it would be .5

If you start going into technical definitions, I lay the smack down with Homophones, Homonyms, and Homosexuals.

[sheepofoblivion]

just trying to defend my good name, sir.

if you want to get real nit-picky, the title isn't spelled right.

[Chronicled]

IIRC, Power Attack was a constant 1:1 ratio in 3.0... something I wish they hadn't changed.

[Curmudgeon]

IIRC, Power Attack was a constant 1:1 ratio in 3.0... something I wish they hadn't changed.

Yes, this is part of how they "balanced" the removal of the Ambidexterity feat to keep two-weapon fighting weak -- by making two-handed weapons more powerful.

[its_all_ogre]

3.0 only needed one level of bard to use all the music abilites as it was linked to perform ranks only.
barbs had v little class features.
sorcerers could not swap spells.
rangers sucked more than 3.5.
monks sucked even more as their now bonus feats were totally set.
DR was like 2e in that DR/silver was still penetrated by magic (i think)

loads of little things that made a lot of difference!

[sonofzeal]

Dwarves got substantially changed; I know the "move normal speed in fullplate" was added, as was the "Stability" trait.

Monsters-as-playable-characters got substantially tweaked stylistically, in that it now spells everything out for you.

As previously mentioned, 3.5 Rangers got a buttload of class features. Their previous class table is about as bare as the Wizard's.

Wilderness Lore and Innuendo got removed as skill, and UMD (and others) can now be trained as cross-classed skills.

[Cainen]

DR worked differently, and in NWN in particular - take a look at the duration of the Cleric's buffs. The major ones last for an hour per level. Now imagine a Cleric with every single combat buff they'd need on them. For a long time, you don't even need magic weapons and armor, and until you hit the cap for GMW and Magic Vestment you're actually using magic armor and weapons for their secondary effects.

Not only that, look at the Healing domain. Maximizes every single healing spell you cast. Oh, and that power applies to healing potions, too. There's plenty of insanely broken stuff in NWN.

[Gamerlord]

Which NWN? If it is NWN 2 then you don't see difference because NWN2 is based on 3.5 (though it has its own specific rules).

As for NWN 1 - the biggest difference is Haste. In 3.0 it gave extra standard action per turn and +4 AC, while 3.5 version gives extra attack, +1 to-hit, AC and reflex save.
Next: when you score a critical hit all damage is multiplied, even the extra dice, but not SA (not sure if it was NWN or 3.0 rule). In 3.5 you don't multiply extra dice.
Next: monk's iterative attacks are at -3 penalty, and flurry of blows is always -2 to attacks, and you only get one extra attack.
Next: DR is in form of DR/+X, not DR/magic, DR/adamantine and so on...

These are the only one that I can remember right now, but I must say I'm not an expert on 3.0, so I probably missed something.

Neverwinter nights 1

[JMobius]

If someone doesn't mind, could they please illuminate all the distinctions in DR between 3.0 and 3.5? I still don't have them all quite figured out. :/

[marjan]

If someone doesn't mind, could they please illuminate all the distinctions in DR between 3.0 and 3.5? I still don't have them all quite figured out. :/

3.0 had following DR: DR/+1, DR/+2, DR/+3... and so on.
3.5 has all sorts of DR like: DR/magic, DR/adamantine, DR/good...

[Douglas]

In 3.0, magic weapons were your catch-all DR beaters. Fighting a werewolf with DR/silver? You could use silver weapons... or just get out your trusty steel +1 sword that works just as well. Any and all material, alignment, or damage type based DR was bypassed by any and all magic weapons in addition to the given material, alignment, or damage type. A simple +1 sword would trump DR/silver, DR/adamantine, DR/cold iron, DR/good, DR/evil, DR/lawful, DR/chaotic, DR/piercing, DR/bludgeoning, and DR/slashing. This meant that all of these types of DR were essentially irrelevant. The only kind of DR that ever mattered past very low levels was DR/+X, which requires a +X or better weapon to beat. DR/+1 is bypassed by any magic weapon, and no non-magical weapon of whatever type or material can ignore it. DR/+2 requires a weapon with a +2 or higher enhancement bonus to bypass - and it all has to be enhancement bonus, special abilities don't count (except Bane, which adds +2 against the specified type of enemy). DR/+5 can only be bypassed with a +5 or higher weapon, and so on, though +6 and higher are epic.

In 3.5, magic no longer trumps everything. DR/special material requires that special material. Even a +30 Godslaying Artifact Sword of Doom does not ignore DR/adamantine unless it either has a special property that specifically overrides the normal DR rules or is made of adamantine. DR/+X was also changed to just DR/magic and DR/epic. DR/magic is exactly equivalent to 3.0's DR/+1, and DR/epic is equivalent to DR/+6. DR/+2 through DR/+5 and DR/+7 and higher no longer exist.

[JMobius]

Ah, thank you douglas. That's what confused me; I wasn't sure whether there was still a 'DR hierarchy' of some sort or not. Cool. :)