Warforged and TTS & DD

[JeminiZero]

So I've been thinking, one of the major weaknesses of Warforged is that they cannot heal normally and only take half healing from normal sources.

And one of the better known sources of limitless healing, is to take Dread Necromancer for Charnel Touch, and Tomb Tainted Soul (TTS).

So could a Warforged Fighter splash 1 Dread Necro and take TTS and effectively give himself inifinite healing? (Not to mention negative energy immunity)

On a similiar note, since Dread Necro can cast Arcane spells spontaneously, does that qualify them for Dragon Disciple (DD)?

In which case you could have a Warforged- Fighter 4 / Dread Necro 1 / Dragon Disciple X with TTS, when the Warforged does not actually have a Soul or Dragon blood?

[DigoDragon]

In which case you could have a Warforged- Fighter 4 / Dread Necro 1 / Dragon Disciple X with TTS, when the Warforged does not actually have a Soul or Dragon blood?

...
That's a good question. I don't think the Dread Necro rules took that into consideration, assuming the class came before the WarForged. Which book was Dread Necro and TTS in again?

Hmmm, a warforged Dragon disciple... What comes to mind first is one of those mechanical dragons from Mechanus. Second thing that comes to mind is going from "robot" to "dragon"-- you'd be like one of the newer Megatrons or something.

But uh... probably have to ask the GM for a ruling on that.

[JeminiZero]

Which book was Dread Necro and TTS in again?

Dread Necro was from Heroes of Horror. TTS was from Libris Mortis.

[black dragoon]

So it may be possible that they wern't considered due to the fact that Warforged may not have had published stats at that point or WOTC f**ked up and didn't realize it. A sadly, all to highly probable chance.

[kamikasei]

Two questions:

- what type of ability is Charnel Touch (supernatural or spell-like)?
- what are the pre-reqs for Tomb-tainted Soul (or if possible, the full wording)?

As for Dragon Disciple, yes, I would think Dread Necro should grant access.

[Jack Mann]

So I've been thinking, one of the major weaknesses of Warforged is that they cannot heal normally and only take half healing from normal sources.

And one of the better known sources of limitless healing, is to take Dread Necromancer for Charnel Touch, and Tomb Tainted Soul (TTS).

So could a Warforged Fighter splash 1 Dread Necro and take TTS and effectively give himself inifinite healing? (Not to mention negative energy immunity)

On a similiar note, since Dread Necro can cast Arcane spells spontaneously, does that qualify them for Dragon Disciple (DD)?

In which case you could have a Warforged- Fighter 4 / Dread Necro 1 / Dragon Disciple X with TTS, when the Warforged does not actually have a Soul or Dragon blood?

Where does it say that warforged don't have souls?

[JeminiZero]

- what type of ability is Charnel Touch (supernatural or spell-like)?

Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer’s body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures, restoring 1 hit point per touch, +1 per four class levels.

- what are the pre-reqs for Tomb-tainted Soul (or if possible, the full wording)?

Copied from Crystal Keep:

Tomb-Tainted Soul [General] (LM p31)
Req: Non-Good Alignment
Benfit: You are healed by Negative Energy (such as Inflict Wounds spells) and damaged by Positive Energy (such as Cure Wounds spells).

Where does it say that warforged don't have souls?

Its primarily an assumption on my part.


Edit: On a related note, does Tomb Born Fortitude stack with Warforged Fortification (copied from crystal keep):

Tomb-Born Fortitude[General] (LM p30)
Req: Non-Good Alignment, Tomb-Tainted Soul
Benefit: You have a 25% chance to resist Critical Hits and Sneak Attacks. You do not risk death from massive damage.

Edit 2: Actually, this Feat may be more useful, total crit immunity, but conjuration healing no longer works. But since TTS already renders that useless...

Improved Fortification [Warforged] (Eb p55)
Req: Warforged, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: You become immune to Critical Hits and Sneak Attacks, but cannot be healed by Conj(healing) spells.

Edit 3: And the following effectively provides Cold Immunity:

Flesh of the Ice Tomb [General] (DU109 p50)
Req: Non-Good Alignment, Tomb-Tainted Soul, Endurance
Benefit: Cold damage you take becomes non-lethal damage.

Improved Resiliency [Warforged] (RoE p119)
Warforged
Benefit: You are immune to nonlethal damage. You cannot benefit from Regeneration or Fast Healing, no mater if they come from magic, the application of a Template, etc.

[kamikasei]

Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer’s body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures, restoring 1 hit point per touch, +1 per four class levels.

...

Copied from Crystal Keep:

Tomb-Tainted Soul [General] (LM p31)
Req: Non-Good Alignment
Benfit: You are healed by Negative Energy (such as Inflict Wounds spells) and damaged by Positive Energy (such as Cure Wounds spells).

I don't see any reason why a Warforged couldn't take Tomb-Tainted Soul based on that. However, that would make Charnel Touch fall under the heading of "supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage", so it would only heal half as much.

I don't know whether the accepted interpretation of this trick is that Charnel Touch deals 1d8 negative energy damage which Tomb-Tainted Soul translates into healing, or whether Tomb-Tainted Soul causes you to be treated as an undead and get the 1 hit point. If the latter, then a one-level dip in Dread Necro would only get you the ability to heal yourself for half of one hit point, rounded down, or in other words, zero.

If you go with the interpretation that Charnel Touch can heal a human DN with TTS for 1d8+x hp, then I would rule that a warforged DN with TTS could get half that and, yes, have unlimited out-of-combat healing.

[JeminiZero]

I believe TTS only causes you to be healed by negative Energy. You don't gain undead type or any other undead triats (you in fact have to take seperate feats for those).

It does seem that Warforged can make good use of Dread Necro splash + TTS + Improved Fortification, which gives them negative energy and crit immunity, on top of their normal construct immunities, and unlimited out of combat healing.

Of course, you are stuck with Fighter as your main class, which means at higher levels you will be outshone by the CoDzillas. Now if someone could figure how to make a viable build round this...

[Jack Mann]

I'd generally rule that anything capable of wondering if it has a soul (which would certainly include warforged) probably has one.

Tomb-Born fortitude wouldn't stack. Instead, enemies would roll twice against 25%. This ends up slightly worse than 50% fortitude, but not by much. Still, as you say, improved fortification would be a better bet in this case.

[hamishspence]

in 4th ed not everything has a soul (animals do not) But everything living has an animus, and this repesents basic drives.

in 3.5 the question would be: what powers, that manipulate souls, do not work on certain creatures? and is the warforged one? For example, does Trap the Soul work on them?

I get the impression that the Living Construct keyword means they have souls. Many D&D constructs are driven by something else, say, a bound elemental.

Complete Divine says outsiders, elementals, etc have souls, but soul and body are tried closely together. When an outsider (not native) is slain its soul rapidly diffuses into its home plane and it take enormous power (miracle) to bring it back together.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Its primarily an assumption on my part.

The Lord of Blades and Church of the Becoming God would like a word with you.

[JeminiZero]

The Lord of Blades and Church of the Becoming God would like a word with you.

I realize it was wrong of me to link Warforged with Mindless/Souless Constructs. I apologize to any Mindless/Souless Constructs who might have been offended by such an association.

So pulling together my rather limited optimization skills, one possible build would be:

1 Ranger / 1 Dread Necro / 2 Fighter / 2 Psion / X Slayer

01: Ranger 1-(Pump Knowledge Dungeoneering to 4) Char Feat: Warforged Armor Feat of choice
02: Fighter 1-Fighter feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain
03: Dread Necromancer 1-Char Feat: Tomb Tainted Soul
04: Fighter 2-Fighter Feat: Combat Expertise
05: Psion (Psychokineticist) 1-Psion Feat: Practiced Manifester
06: Psion 2-Char Feat: Improved Trip
07: Slayer 1
08: Slayer 2
09: Slayer 3-Char Feat: Expanded Knowledge: Expansion
10: Slayer 4
11: Slayer 5
12: Slayer 6-Char Feat: Knockdown
13: Slayer 7
14: Slayer 8
15: Slayer 9-Char Feat: Improved Fortification
16: Slayer 10

At its core is the Spiked Chain-Knockdown combo. This also nets you Psion level 11 (level 6 powers), manifested as Psion level 15. You can use Augmented Expansion to become Huge, to grant your Spiked Chain 30 ft reach, and +8 Size bonus / +2 Str bonus to Trip Attempts.

Psion also grants you protective stuff like Energy Adaptation and Freedom of Movement, on top of your Warforged/TTS immunity to Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, Disease, Fatigue/Exhaustion, Energy Drain and Crits, negative energy. And you have limitless out of combat healing.

If the need arises, you can also drop a null psionics field, and then charge/knockdown the enemy mage.

[hamishspence]

Mindless constructs often have an elemental inside, which is not mindless (golems) Maybe elemental is |"power source" like the various Eberron vehicles?

At least one such constuct is not mindless but human-level intelligence (nimblewright, which with its extendable blades and abilty to disguise itself is a bit T-1000-ish (not a true shapeshifter though)

I'm not sure what Warforged Titans have inside: I think they are above animal intelligence though.