[3.5] Need help making a rogue for my first game

[Fendalus]

After lurking here for a few months now, I figured I should come here to ask for help making a halfling rogue for a Forgotten Realms campaign. The party is level 3, And I'm the only skill monkey.

Books I can use for sure: The three core books, and the Forgotten Realms campaign setting book.

Books I might be able to get my DM to let me use: Dragon Magic, Complete Arcane.

I was thinking I would do a Strongheart Halfling, but I have no idea how to place my feats or skills. My DM also gave me 900 Gp to spend, but I have no idea what to buy with that either. So could you guys please help me? Thanks.

[Keld Denar]

Man, of you could get 1 feat from one other book, Rogue4/Swashbuckler16 with the Daring Outlaw feat is pretty much the best melee rogue option out there. Combine that with the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny and you can keep most of your favorite skills at max rank.

Sadly, you might not have access to all that, but if you can, man, you can make a decent combat rogue.

[Vortling]

Do you have any idea what sort of character you'd like to play? How much does your group optimize? The rogue has lots of things it can do, even in Core only. I hesitate to mention it, but your DM is only giving you a 3rd of the recommended wealth by level. I assume he knows what he's doing.

[Temp.]

The two ways to maximize your Sneak Attack damage are Two Weapon Fighting and Archery. The latter may be difficult at your level (you'll need higher-level spells to consistantly apply SA damage to your attacks).

So here are the options I see:
Take Two-Weapon Fighting at level 1, Weapon Finesse at level 3, keep one 1st level feat open for something else (Improved Initiative is always a safe bet; Combat Expertise can be nice).
-Or-
Take Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot in no particular order.

With both, you'll gain two attacks per round. The first one will be more difficult to gain the benefit of both attacks (to use Two-Weapon Fighting, you need to start your turn within five feet of your target), the second will be more difficult to gain Sneak Attack (until you find a source of Blink or Greater Invisibility, you can only expect a miximum of two Sneak Attacks per combat). With the first, your main goal should be flanking and full-round attacking. With the second, you might try to hide to gain the initial sneak attack. After that though, just stay in the back and plink away with your shortbow.

[Chronos]

My advice whenever rogue threads come up, is don't worry too much about combat. Sure, you can contribute a few extra d6 of damage, but that's not really your element. Fighters beat monsters, wizards beat encounters, but rogues beat adventures. Evil overlord threatening to destroy the world with a super-MacGuffin artifact of doom? Sneak into his inner sanctum, steal the artifact, and sneak out. If you really want to, after you dispose of the artifact of doom, you can go back in and finish off the overlord, to make sure he doesn't get up to any more mischief, but you can do that at your leisure once you don't have to worry about the End of the World any more.

Likewise for most other adventure hooks. As a rogue, you don't have to kill the enemies: You can just ignore them.

[Te'Shen]

Man, of you could get 1 feat from one other book, Rogue4/Swashbuckler16 with the Daring Outlaw feat is pretty much the best melee rogue option out there. Combine that with the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny and you can keep most of your favorite skills at max rank. . .

See, I always think of it the other way around. Rogue1/Swash 3/Rogue 15/PrC x. It keeps your skills up by adding actual skill points. If you really like Swashbuckler you could make it Swashbuckler 3/Sneak attack fighter variant 2/Swashbuckler 15. I will agree that Able Learner is a can of awesome... but you can only be human or doppleganger by RAW... but changeling or someone with the human heritage feat should be allowed to qualify.

Granted, it's not in your allowed books, but (and this is down the road as it is out of your price range) as the DM if you can buy a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from the Tome of Magic is a great magic item for rogues. It adds the dark template either for a few minutes per day or as a continuous item.

[Tempest Fennac]

I agree with Te'Shen (multi-classing will always cost you skill points, though). I agree with the feat advice as well. Stat-wise, make sure you have good Int and Dex, but don't dump Con. Skill-wise, keep Search, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently and either Diplomacy or Bluff (or possibly both) maxed out. Tumble is essential if you want to focus on melee Sneak Attacks, and Use Magic Device can be great (especially if you have good Cha). Spot and Listen are good skills to max out as well.

[Paul H]

Hi

Two questions:

1) What's your rogue trying to do - trapsmith/stealth?
2) Will your GM allow/do you have access to PHB2?

If you're looking for the absolute best sneaky/stealthy/trapsmith then it's the Beguiler, pure & simple.

All the best Rogue skills & more. Spells, lots of spells, as a spont caster based on Int (the rogues friend). Move silently? Cast Silence. Hide? Cast Invisibility. That chest looking dodgy? Cast knock from a great distance.

Play a Grey Elf for the Int & Dex bonuses, weapon access, and bonus to Listen, Search & Spot. Take Obtain Familiar at 3rd lvl to grant yourself Alertness feat for extra bonus to Listen & Spot. If you have good enough Wis play True Neutral follower of Ffarlaghn & take Arcane Disciple (Travel) at 6th lvl for Fly, Dimension Door & Teleport.

Downside: No sneak attack damage, evasion or uncanny dodge.
Upside: (IMHO) The best spells ever for a rogue. Also the best Illusionist/Enchanter ever!

At 1st lvl finish encounters with Colour Spray or Sleep. (DC 16 Will if you have Int 20). Later levels boost party with Haste.

Cheers
Paul H
BTW I normally play spellcasters, so I might be bit biased!

[Chronos]

Skill-wise, keep Search, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently and either Diplomacy or Bluff (or possibly both) maxed out. Tumble is essential if you want to focus on melee Sneak Attacks, and Use Magic Device can be great (especially if you have good Cha). Spot and Listen are good skills to max out as well.

I would call at least one of Spot or Listen essential. You also didn't mention Sleight of Hand, which lets you take someone's cool stuff before they even know you're there. For the social skills like Diplomacy and Bluff, it's critically important to find out what houserules your DM uses (almost all DMs houserule those to some extent): They can range anywhere from Real Ultimate Power to completely worthless, depending on the rules. There are also other classes that are better at those, so if you have (for instance) a bard in your party, you might not want to bother with the social skills at all.

[Fendalus]

Ok, I decided to use the two weapon fighting method. I'm afraid I don't know if he has any house rules on Bluff or Diplomacy. I think the party consists of a Wizard, Cleric, and Fighter, but they could be other classes with that general role. Unfortunately, I have no way to get access to any of the other 3.5 books as of this time, as the local bookstore was required to return them to Wizards of the Cost when 4th edition came out.

From what I can tell, would this be a good set of skills to keep maxed out?
Bluff
Disable Device
Hide
Listen
Move Silently
Search
Spot
Tumble
Use Magic Device

And I still have no Idea what to spend the 900 Gold on. Any suggestions in regrades to that would help.

Also, the stats I rolled, and where I placed them, if that has any effect on this.
Rolled: 14,14,13,13,11,11
Applied: (with halfling racial mods)
Str:11 (13 base), Dex:16 (14 base), Con:14, Int:13, Wis:11 Cha: 11

As before, any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Chronos]

Tumble's good for now, but you won't want to keep maxing it. The DCs only go so high, and you'll get to the point where you can consistently make it, after which further points don't help. You might also want some Balance: Five ranks is a good amount to have, because with less than that, you're considered flat-footed when using it.

And I still have no Idea what to spend the 900 Gold on. Any suggestions in regrades to that would help.

With just 900, you're not going to get any magic worth using. You could get something like a Hand of the Mage, but that'd blow your entire bankroll. So you're looking at your mundane and alchemical gear.

Masterwork thieves' tools are 100, an everburning bullseye lantern is 122, a masterwork suit of studded leather is 175, daggers are 2 gold each, or 302 for masterwork, and you'll want some extras for throwing. A nonmagical cold iron dagger is only 4 gold, and a silver one is 22 gold; it wouldn't hurt to have both, in case of damage reduction.

Any of the alchemical items are worth their price, but it'd stretch your budget to get all of them. The one I'd point out especially, though, is holy water: Since your Sneak Attacks won't work against undead, you'll want something else to use in combat with them instead.


EDIT:
I didn't notice you asking about your stats. I would swap Int and Con: Con's nice for anyone, but a rogue's primary way to stay alive is to not get hit in the first place. Int, though, will give you more skill points (which you want), and is also used for Search and Disable Device. I'd also swap Str and Cha: 9 strength is plenty for a halfling rogue, especially considering that your equipment weighs less than normal, for being small. But charisma is used for your Bluff (or other social skills) and UMD.

Also, if you want to carry more than your strength allows, a pack mule is only 8 GP. Leave anything you won't need quickly on the mule, and only carry things on your person that you'll need on a moment's notice, or that are light enough not to matter. Having that mule also gives you the freedom to pretty much go down the mundane equipment list, and pick up one of everything (tent, shovel, grappling hook, pots and pans, whatever). Most mundane equipment is very cheap, and limited primarily by its weight.

[Tempest Fennac]

Which weapons are you planning on using? You may want to get 2 which cause different types of damage so that DR is less of a problem for you. In regards to Cha, could you ask the DM if you could move 1 point of Str to Cha to make the most of the modifiers? If Int and Con are swapped and Fendalus increases his Con by 1 point at level 4, would he get an extra HP per HD? (I'm not sure how it works exactly, but I don't think skill points can be added to extra HDs like that if Int is raised, can it?). The problem with relying on a muel is that you won't be able to take him everywhere with you (I doubt that the Str penalty would be that much of a problem after a while, but being able to carry a descent amount of stuff yourself can still be handy).

[Chronos]

The problem with relying on a muel is that you won't be able to take him everywhere with you (I doubt that the Str penalty would be that much of a problem after a while, but being able to carry a descent amount of stuff yourself can still be handy).

True, but you don't need all of your stuff everywhere you go, either. There aren't that many places that pots and pans or a tent would be useful, but that you can't take a mule. Worst case scenario, if you lose the mule, you're out 8 GP worth of animal, and maybe about 10 GP worth of mundane equipment.

Of course, once you get yourself a Handy Haversack, then your worries are over, anyway, and you can sell the mule off.

[Tempest Fennac]

That is a good point, Would my ideas regarding stats work out well?

[SoD]

On the subject of multiple damage types, with TWF, take a morning star (P&B) and a handaxe (S), or something similar.