Rogue build help

[Bayar]

For an upcoming campaign I am trying to make a rogue. The problem is that I never played one before. but I have some ideas:

Thinking of going with Orc as a race. If the DM wont agree, switch it to half-orc.

Level 1 rogue to get the extra skill points.
Level 2 Barbarian to grab the rage, speed, martial proficiency, BAB and the rest. At this point, I will swap my old weapon (probably a bow or shortsword) with a greatsword.
Level 3 ...hmm...this could go either way. I could get rogue 2 for the evasion, but fireballs are not that common yet. More likely, Barb 2 for the uncanny dodge.


I am thinking of going for Rogue 16 barb 4 at the end. It would give a BAB of 16 (for 4 attacks on full attack), 2 rages per day, 8d6 sneak attack damage, trap sense +6, 3 speacial rogue abilities, improved uncanny dodge, fast movement and 7 feats.


Other things I am considering: Getting exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain) and going with abberant blood/inhuman reach. Dont know how will this affect my flanking though, since dont remember if you have to be adjactent to the enemy or just threaten him for flanking...
Getting use magic device skills maxed out and using a wand of grease (with caster level 2 or higher) so I can make my opponents flat-footed for more than one round...
Getting a mithral Breastplate (4200 GP if I remember correctly) so I can have a high AC, enough DEX bonus and be considered light armor instead of medium...

And stats: Thinking of maxing out STR, making DEX and CON with the next 2 good stats, sticking the next one into INT, the next one into CHA and dumping WIS.


So, suggestions?

[Stupendous_Man]

i've never seen a barbarian like that before... why do you need to be a rogue? for the skill points?

what are you going to do with them?

[Tempest Fennac]

I gree with Stupendous_Man. The classes don't really go well togather due to their different rolls, so it may not be the best choice. It wouldn't be as good for skills, but Swashbuckler would be better then Barbarian here due to a feat which allows SB and Rogue levels to stack in regards to determining Sneak Attack and (I think) a couple of other features. (Admittedly, I'd probably just go straight Rogue if I were you due to not linking multi-classing that much.)

(V) You're welcome.

[Stupendous_Man]

I gree with Stupendous_Man.

awww thanks, heh

Getting use magic device skills maxed out and using a wand of grease (with caster level 2 or higher) so I can make my opponents flat-footed for more than one round...

grease doesn't make people flatfooted though.

[Tempest Fennac]

I know it doesn't mention anything about that in the spell's description, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grease , but I've seen this stratergy mentioned by other people in the past (I guess it makes sense for Grease to make people flat-footed, but I'm not sure where people got the information from in regards to it having that effect). Also, dumping is is probably not wise due to how your build will already have awful Will saves.

[pantoffelheld]

Grease asks for a balance check. You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing.

[Solo]

Grease asks for a balance check. You are considered flat-footed while balancing,

You need to make a balance check to move out of the greased area.

Dunno if you are flatfooted if you're just standing still.

[JeminiZero]

You might consider the Combat Reflexes-Vexing Flanker-Adaptable Flanker feats. I think it helps you gain flanking bonuses to squeeze in sneak attacks.

Spiked Chain tends to work better for high Str knockdown type builds. If you really want to use it on a stealthy type build, then, consider going with Scout and spring attack/bounding assault skirmish bonus instead.

[Telonius]

Sounds to me like you’re trying to build a Strength-focused, rather than Skill-focused, Rogue. Hence the Orc race, correct?

This is an uncommon sort of build, but it does have the feature of not needing to sink a feat into Weapon Finesse. And Rogue16 is a natural cutoff point (along with Rogue 19). However, I would suggest that you multiclass into Ranger, not Barbarian.

Both Ranger and Barbarian give you proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields (except tower shields). Both give full BAB and a good Fort save.

Ranger offers 8 more skill points, a spell list at 4th, a good Ref save, a Favored Enemy, a Combat Style Bonus feat, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, and a flanking buddy animal companion.

Barbarian gives you Medium armor proficiency, 8 more HP (on average), Rage 2/day, +1 trap sense, and Fast Movement +10.

All things considered, I would say that Ranger is a better deal.

[clericwithnogod]

I've run characters built like this since 3.0 came out. They're incredibly useful - the 3.5 striker.

Go with something like (from a 32 point buy for a half-orc):

STR:18(10) DEX:16(10) Con:14(06) INT:12(06) WIS:8 CHA:6
STR:18(10) DEX:14(06) Con:14(06) INT:14(10) WIS:8 CHA:6
STR:20(16) DEX:14(06) Con:14(06) INT:10(04) WIS:8 CHA:6

Any of them work. I usually prefer a Falchion or Greatsword to a Spiked Chain, but it depends on what you like doing. If you have someone like an artificer to handle traps and locks, you can ignore that and focus on Move Silently, Hide, Tumble, Balance, Listen, Spot, Climb, and Jump. I like Sense Motive too if I have the points. If you have to do traps and locks, points get a little tighter but are still manageable. If you're going to max use magic device, maybe get a wand of knock and/or find traps too (perhaps extending the charges by having a passable score in Open Locks and/or Search).

Nice prestige classes include: Assassin (if you favor INT), Dark Hunter, and Thief-Acrobat (some nice abilities that may fit your fighting style at a cost of 1 BAB - hard to justify going to level 5 and losing 2 points of BAB though).

Caveats:

- You don't tank well (which no Rogue and most Barbs can't do anyway). You may have to repeat, "I am not a tank." over and over until it gets through some people's heads.
- Remember that you can't Tumble when you're raging in 3.5. So be careful about Tumbling behind enemy lines, raging, and laying waste to something, since you'll have a hard time getting back. It's an effective tactic (often a tide changer), so do it, just be smart about it.
- Picking up the Dragonslayer PrC or the Fearless feat can be handy as your Will saves are kind of low and it seems a ton of stuff hits you with the fear mechanic.
- Consider adding a mithral buckler to your mithral breastplate, depending on if you add the Improved Buckler Defense and/or how much you enchant it, it can be worthwhile.

EDIT: FIxed the INT score in the third stat array (INT:10 instad of INT:12)

[Chronos]

This is an uncommon sort of build, but it does have the feature of not needing to sink a feat into Weapon Finesse. And Rogue16 is a natural cutoff point (along with Rogue 19). However, I would suggest that you multiclass into Ranger, not Barbarian.

One downside to this is that it would inflict multiclass penalties, since half-orcs have barbarian as their favored class, not ranger or rogue. An alternative, though, would be to be a Wood Elf instead (who get Ranger as favored). You still get a strength bonus and an int penalty, but you also get a dex bonus. Admittedly, the Con penalty is worse than a Cha penalty, but at least it's balanced by the Dex.