[4e] death and dying

[Pepz]

Hey guys,

I just got the PHB and been reading through the rules and most of it makes sense or at least does so after a second reading but I could use some explaining on one little bit on the ruling on dying.

as soon as someone goes below 1hp, they go unconsious and have to start rolling saves. these go
1-10 you keep dying
11-19 nothing happens
20 or higher, use a healing surge.

this is doubly confusing to me, since nowhere it is mentioned what kind of save you should roll. It seems to me it should be a fortitude save, because if it isn't .... how are you supposed to get higher than 20?

so guys, and gals , could you please explain to me, what kind of save I'm supposed to roll here?

Pepz

[Saph]

There's no such thing as a type of saving throw in 4e. You roll a d20; if you get 10 or higher, you pass, otherwise, you fail.

Death saving throws (or any other type of saving throw) have nothing to do with Fort or Con - you're equally likely to die or recover no matter your stats.

There are a very very very few things that give you bonuses to saving throws, hence the "20 or higher" clause, but they're rarer than hen's teeth, so a save nearly always translates to "roll a number in double figures".

- Saph

[Azerian Kelimon]

No save. It's actually Exactly What It says On the Tin, rolling a d20 and having a 5% chance of recovery. It's supposed to be unmodified (Except, possibly, if you have the Human perseverance feat, which would up your chance of recovery to 10%), and lethal unless your friends come and help you.

[Pepz]

wow, I really was hoping I'd read it wrong and it was a modified save...

thanks for the quick responses people, I guess I really don't want to get to that
point of no return where you have to rol for your life and hope you don't fail three times in a row....which has a pretty big chance the way I usually roll.

[kirbsys]

Are these roles given the usual + 1/2 level bonus?

[JaxGaret]

Are these roles given the usual + 1/2 level bonus?

No.10characters

[Titanium Dragon]

wow, I really was hoping I'd read it wrong and it was a modified save...

thanks for the quick responses people, I guess I really don't want to get to that
point of no return where you have to rol for your life and hope you don't fail three times in a row....which has a pretty big chance the way I usually roll.

Your friends shouldn't leave you lying on the ground bleeding to death. Not much in the way of friends if they do, eh?

[kieza]

It works pretty well in practice for my group. So far, in 5 encounters, we've had 3 people fall unconscious, and none of them have died. Unless the healer is the one down, they can have anyone back up within a round (usually). And if it is the healer, they're pretty easy to get back up; the one time it happened to us, the Wizard managed to get there and make the heal check to save them.

What seems to be the worst situation for being unconscious is a large, spread-out battle: you may have people who are too far away for the healer to get to, and to add to the problem, the enemy tends to get in the way. Generally speaking, getting cut off is bad in 4e.

[kirbsys]

Well most 4th edition abilities are geared towards working together, so yeah it makes sense that getting cut off is even worse than in 3.X.

[Kabump]

As has been mentioned, anyone can attempt a heal check on an unconscious player (with a static DC of 15 i believe) and they stop making saving throws until damaged again.

[Foxtale]

I guess I really don't want to get to that
point of no return where you have to rol for your life and hope you don't fail three times in a row...

It's not failing 3 times in a row. It's failing three times in one day. So if you roll over four turns and FAIL, PASS, FAIL, PASS, then get brought back, you still have two failures against you. So if in a later encounter before having an extended rest, you FAIL, then you will have had three fails and will die.

[RTGoodman]

It's not failing 3 times in a row.

Incorrect.

Lower than 10: [...] If you get this this result three times before you take a rest, you die.

Emphasis mine.

From that, it seems even a short rest is fine to "reset" your three failures.

[Chronicled]

(Except, possibly, if you have the Human perseverance feat, which would up your chance of recovery to 10%), and lethal unless your friends come and help you.

I don't believe this is the case:

Human Perseverance [Human]
Prerequisite: Human
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to saving throws.

[Daracaex]

Just posted this on the Wizards boards, but it seems appropriate here as well. If you can't tell, it's Boromir.

[Inyssius Tor]

I don't believe this is the case:

Human Perseverance [Human]
Prerequisite: Human
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to saving throws.

Rolling a natural 20 on a twenty-sided die is a one-in-twenty chance. One divided by twenty is .05, so you have a five percent chance of recovery.

Rolling a 19 (which, with the +1 bonus, would total 20) or a natural 20 on a twenty-sided die is a two-in-twenty, or one-in-ten chance. One divided by ten is .10, so you have a ten percent chance of recovery.

...or am I totally misreading your objection?

[Frost]

Rolling a natural 20 on a twenty-sided die is a one-in-twenty chance. One divided by twenty is .05, so you have a five percent chance of recovery.

Rolling a 19 (which, with the +1 bonus, would total 20) or a natural 20 on a twenty-sided die is a two-in-twenty, or one-in-ten chance. One divided by ten is .10, so you have a ten percent chance of recovery.

...or am I totally misreading your objection?

He said it increases the chance by 10% not to 10%.

Also, a 19 gives the same result as a 20, so if you have human persevereance it is 18-20, still not 10%.

[lord_khaine]

He said it increases the chance by 10% not to 10%.

Also, a 19 gives the same result as a 20, so if you have human persevereance it is 18-20, still not 10%.

as far as i can see you are the only one saying it increases the chance by 10%.

also, where do you get the idea that a 19 gives the same result as a 20 from, when you dont have that human feat?

[Jayabalard]

He said it increases the chance by 10% not to 10%.

Also, a 19 gives the same result as a 20, so if you have human persevereance it is 18-20, still not 10%.

nope... he said "which would up your chance of recovery to 10%"

That post is unedited unless he can somehow edit having an "last edited on" info line appearing.