Pro/Con for various gaming systems

[sonofzeal]

I'm going to try to composite a list of the percieved strengths and weaknesses of the various major RPG systems. Please include at least one serious pro and con for each game system you want to talk about. By "serious" I mean that it has to be something that applies especially to the system in question (and wouldn't be equally true about any other random system), and has to be a legitimate good/bad point ("too much awesome for the mortal brain to comprehend" is not a legitimate bad point). You can elaborate in your post, but try to keep each point in a format that's easy for me to add to the table.

I'll start things off with one advantage for each. There's a lot of systems I've left out; anyone should feel free to get the ball rolling on those by mentioning a few Pro's (and at least one Con), and I'll edit them in. Thanks!


{table=head]System|Pro|Con

1e D&D|-a true classic|???

AD&D|-well-defined attribute progression limits|-awkward rule layouts

2e D&D|-Whacky items fun to play with[br]-Gritty high fantasy feel[br]-Quick character creation[br]-Game runs quickly|-Characters have few options, especially non-spellcasters[br]-Balance issues[br]-Low level characters too frail[br]-Death too common and random

3e D&D|-very easy to find groups for[br]-Lots of character options[br]-Excellent variety of class/race combinations|-balance issues[br]-Character creation takes too long[br]-many mechanics are time consuming[br]-Many characters have few options in combat[br]-Death is often highly random[br]-Anticlimactic combat at high levels

4e D&D|-very good class balance[br]-Many combat options for everyone[br]-smooth gameplay[br]-PC deaths possible but infrequent|-Dependant on battlemaps[br]-Rules ambiguities

GURPS|-tremendous flexibility|-Character creation difficult[br]-unfocussed

Mage|-rewards inventive use of abilites|???

Exalted|-wide range of power levels[br]-cross-compatible with WoD|-hard to find groups for

Alternity|-High character customization[br]-Very easy to understand rules system[br]-Game runs very smoothly and quickly[br]-Highly robust rules system[br]-Cinematic level of realism enjoyable|-Low magic only[br]-Very hard to find books and players in your area[br]-Has been largely supplanted by d20 Modern[/table]

[Matthew]

The problem with this approach is that some people see one thing as a pro that others see as a con. For instance, 4e minions could be seen by one person as good and another as bad.

So, anyway, here's one... AD&D:

Pro: Hard Limits on Attribute Advancement
Con: Unintuitive Attribute Tables

[sonofzeal]

The problem with this approach is that some people see one thing as a pro that others see as a con. For instance, 4e minions could be seen by one person as good and another as bad.

Indeed, and there's room for some discussion on that. In general, I'll try not to put points that could go either direction into the table (because it wouldn't really be a "legitimate" pro/con in that case). Thank you for bringing that up though.

[Solo]

Con: 14. .........

[sonofzeal]

So, anyway, here's one... AD&D:

Pro: Hard Limits on Attribute Advancement
Con: Unintuitive Attribute Tables

Eheh, that rather falls under the category we just talked about. And it would never be a major selling point "oh hey lets play this game it has hard limits on attribute advancement" type thing. I'll put it in though, and if anyone disagrees enough to post I'll take it out.

Con: 14. .........

Pro: why yes I am one.

[Indon]

Bear in mind: I've only played the 1'st edition of World of Darkness and Exalted.

Exalted and World of Darkness Pro: Cross-compatible with each other (similar to AD&D-3'rd ed compatibility - they use the same core mechanics but you would have to convert many details).

Another pro: Can model multiple levels of power. Yes, Exalted can model multiple power tiers, and they aren't all over 9000. They range from equivalency to lower-level D&D (one lucky shot can kill a mortal, for instance) through the entire D&D range to the ridiculous power of the Solars (who are the default protagonists for the game :P)

World of Darkness, for its' part, can model multiple power tiers in a smaller scope (Exception: Mages. If you play Paradox-light, Mage can get pretty high-end).

A related Con: mixed groups can have balance problems if the GM doesn't take care.

Edit: I should note that Mage is part of a much larger system set called World of Darkness, that has two versions (Old World of Darkness, and New World of Darkness), essentially a 1'st and 2'nd edition.

White Wolf also produced Dark Age and Wild West (only ever seen one of these books though) product lines related to their Old World of Darkness books.

[Tengu]

I disagree with Exalted having balance issues. All Exalted within one type are balanced with each other well, Types of Exalted vary between each other in power, sometimes greatly, but unless you are playing a weird campaing, all PCs should be Exalted of one type.
Also, the pros of this game is that it feels extremely epic and encourages player creativity. And is freakin' sweet.

[sonofzeal]

I disagree with Exalted having balance issues. All Exalted within one type are balanced with each other well, Types of Exalted vary between each other in power, sometimes greatly, but unless you are playing a weird campaing, all PCs should be Exalted of one type.
Also, the pros of this game is that it feels extremely epic and encourages player creativity. And is freakin' sweet.

So what's a good Con for that game, then?

[Tengu]

Bad marketing. Remember the "upgrade" campaign?

[Titanium Dragon]

My thoughts:

2nd edition AD&D:

Pros: Lots of random effects, charts, and tables
Whacky items fun to play with
Gritty high fantasy feel
Quick character creation
Game runs quickly

Cons: Characters have few options, especially non-spellcasters
Balance issues
Low level characters too frail
Death too common and random
Often cannot play class you want to play
Limited to fantasy roleplaying

3.x D&D:

Pros: Lots of character options
Complete class/race variance
Can play as most anything in any book

Cons: Omnipresent balance issues
Character creation takes too long
Spell memorization is time consuming and unfun for the table
Combat is clunky and takes too long to run
High tendency of people to feel left out for long periods of time
Few real options
Vast majority of classes have few to no options in combat
Death is often highly random
Rocket tag combat prevalent
Anticlimactic combat at high levels
Poorly organized rules
Limited to fantasy roleplaying

4e D&D:

Pros: Characters have lots of options for what to do at all times
High level of balance
Game runs smoothly
Combat interesting and feels deadly, but character deaths occur at about the correct rate

Cons: Some rules ambiguity
Limited to fantasy roleplaying

Alternity:

Pros: High character customization
Very easy to understand rules system
Little time spent looking stuff up
Game runs very smoothly and quickly
Combat and noncombat systems both work extremely well
Highly robust rules system
Cinematic level of realism enjoyable, leading to interesting but not overly deadly combat and situations
Does an excellent job of incorporating a very low level of wholly optional "magic" in the form of psionics and FX, allowing both low and no magic gaming without running into problems

Cons: Modern and science fiction roleplaying only
Low magic only

GURPS:

Pros: Enormous level of customization
Can do just about anything with the system

Cons: Character creation takes far too long
Many options are not appropriate to many settings, meaning there are actually too many options as many cannot be used at any given time
Unfocused rules system means it doesn't do anything as well as more focused systems
Combat too lethal

World of Darkness:

Pros: Appealing built-in setting
Powers have lots of interesting possible effects

Cons: Balance issues
Specific setting and game tone

[Just Alex]

I remain convinced that White Wolf has no playtesters. I played in a mage game wherein gravity was reversed in a park in downtown Chicago without invoking any paradox.

[sonofzeal]

Titanium Dragon - added. I did some formatting since a number were pretty repeditive.

Just Alex - Can you phrase that in the context of a Pro and a Con?



Also... when I go to edit, it changes all my square bracket tags into triangle brackets, which seems to break the table. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[Kurald Galain]

Interesting attempt, but as pointed out above a lot of this is very subjective. "Hard to find groups for", especially, can vary wildly depending on what area you're in.

1e D&D has cons that there are no rules for many non-combat situations, that the material component rules are stupid, and that certain spells are overpowered.

All of this, and anything else you say about this, AD&D, or 2e D&D (and most of what you say about 3E), applies equally to the other editions. Well, except that none of it is "gritty" or "high-fantasy".

4E, well, read this forum for many other opinions on its pros and cons. The SRD may be considered a pro for 3E and a con for 4E.

Exalted is by no means cross-compatible with the world of darkness. Mage is hard to learn. Alternity is certainly neither highly customizable, nor easy to understand (lots of people choke on the step dice and arbitrary skill costs, for instance), nor smooth to run; it is a failed attempt at D&D sci-fi that got taken off the market quickly, but has cult value to some.

And I could mention a dozen other systems if you really want them.

[valadil]

The problem with this approach is that some people see one thing as a pro that others see as a con. For instance, 4e minions could be seen by one person as good and another as bad.

Con: D&D level ups are unrealistic. You killed an Orc and suddenly got better at forging signatures? I call shenanigans.

Pro: D&D level ups are noticeable milestones which are more fun than gaining a single skill point per session.