[3.5] Thoughts on this character

[Hal]

I'm going to be joining an in-progress game in about a month, so I thought I'd try to get some Playground opinions on this character.

The character is going to start out ~level 7, and I'm planning on multiclassing Bard/Paladin. I'm already aware of a few threads (here, here, and here) about making this an effective combat character. That's not a big concern for me. I'm more concerned with the character himself.

The major idea is that I'll take leadership for the character, and his cohort will be a Bard, his wife. The background is that they were two bards living the stereotypical bard lifestyle; nomadic travel, free-wheeling, using their charm to make things happen for them.

At one point, they sneak into a wedding party for a local noble, when assassins strike. The character's wife gets caught in the middle of it and is killed. The priest who presided over the wedding takes pity on my character, and offers to bring her back, with a catch: He must join their church to work off the debt before they will bring her back.

So, he becomes a Paladin and joins their ranks for a few years before she is resurrected. He is in between missions for the church, though she has now been resurrected, when he'll be starting the game.

My thought was to take a flaw to get Leadership, and this was the idea: The church wants to guarantee that I keep up my end of the bargain, and without the character's knowledge places a Mark of Justice upon him. Should he ever break his oath to the church, the Mark will activate. I'm going to leave it up to my DM what the consequences are.

My question is this: Does this sound too "attention grabbing?" I don't want to join this game with a character that screams, "Make me the center of attention!" I don't know much about the other players' characters, so I don't know if he'd overshadow them or not.

Any thoughts?

[KillianHawkeye]

You realize you'll have to be an Ex-Bard (since Bards cannot be Lawful and Paladins must be Lawful Good). Fortunately, Ex-Bards retain the use of all their class abilities.

Also note that you cannot take a flaw after 1st level without your DM's express permission, so make sure to check with him/her.

As for your question, it kinda depends on the group. You have a great, interesting backstory with a lot of invested emotion. However, if the other players don't write up at least a paragraph or two for character background, then it could seem like you are trying to steal the show a little bit. As far as actually overshadowing anybody, I don't think you'll do that any more than the standard Paladin would, since the main driving force from your background story has already been resolved (i.e. you got your wife back). Now you are left with the secondary background element (changing class and becoming a Paladin), but that is not any more overwhelming than if you started out as a Paladin from level 1 (it has the same roleplaying restrictions either way).

I wish you luck. Let us know how it turns out!

[Animefunkmaster]

I think the story sounds good, but you should compare it to the story that is already in progress in case you feel you are being too attention grabby. I would also like to point out that, while your character may have joined the ranks of paladin, your class levels do not need to be paladin.

Personally, I would think that a bard who is working for the church out of need and not out of want, would be hesitant to become a follower of that faith, especially when it means sacrificing being a bard in the future.

Edit: Also, are you taking leadership so you can have the minions? I am sure your DM can be more than reasonable and let you have a wife in char without having to spend a feat.

[Vexxation]

You realize you'll have to be an Ex-Bard (since Bards cannot be Lawful and Paladins must be Lawful Good). Fortunately, Ex-Bards retain the use of all their class abilities.

Paladin of Freedom.

Anyway, as for the Mark of Justice, why not have it set to send you into an uncontrollable (barbarian-esque) rage with one thought on your mind: Kill your Wife.

It's fairly (read: very) vindictive, but any church that puts a Mark on you *and* requires you to work before bringing your wife back obviously wouldn't mind you sending her back. And it does guarantee that you never break your vow.


And if you want to be reeeaaally character-building you could have your character end up killing his wife (Mark of Justice though, so it's not really evil. Especially if the character doesn't know she'll be in danger upon breaking his oath). following her death he could sort of "lose it" and go Barbarian. Imagine... a singing, smiting, raging war machine.

[Keld Denar]

4 levels of Bard + 4+ Levels of Paladin would be a good build mechanically. This gets you a 2nd level spell with no additional loss of BAB. Either continue Paladin or PrC as desired. For feats, Devoted Performer is a gimme, as it allows your bard and paladin levels to stack for most numerical benefits. It also allows free multiclassing back and forth, which is normally restricted with paladin. Other than that, Power Attack + Divine Might is a decent damage boost. Get a nice fat 2hander and make with the heroic dispention of justice.

For that 2nd level spell, I'd take Whirling Blade, from CArc reprinted in Spell Compendium. It all the ranged attack you'll ever need. Power Attack with it and it'll outperform any other damage spell it's level. Its also not CL dependant and doesn't have a save, making it ideal for your bard with your short-clipped casting.

Finally, maximize your Inspire Courage. Devoted Performer allows bard + paladin levels to stack to determine your bonus, but you can also increase it with things like Inspirational Boost spell (SpC), a Badge of Valor (MIC), the Song of the Heart feat or ACF (ECS), and possibly even the Vest of Legends (DMGII) to increase your IC bonus or your effective bard level (and thus your song level). Maximized IC will allow you to safely convert more of your AB into Power Attack damage without worries about large dips in accuracy.

There, an effective AND RPable character. Who says you can't do both?

EDIT: Oh, I just read over the threads you linked. Turns out I posted in 2/3 of them. My advice here is pretty much the same as those other threads, so feel free to disregard it in favor of the more precise info presented in the other threads, specifically the 1st one.

[Hal]

Thanks for the input. I was starting to worry this thread would get passed over without any input.

I don't really know the story up to now. I sent off a similar character description to my future GM and asked his opinion on the matter. He hasn't responded yet. I realize that's going to be the biggest measure of whether this is too much or not.

Mechanically, here's what I'd wanted to do with the character/cohort: Devoted Performer for the main character, plus whatever else I can squeeze in to make him a combat machine (Snowflake Wardance, Divine Might). I kinda want that MoJ to be the flaw for Leadership because at 6th level I can take Leadership or Divine Might, but not both, and I'd rather not wait until level 9 for Divine Might. I don't think it needs any prestige classes, as the multiclass Bardadin should be strong enough on it's own. Anyone know a PrC that would be appropriate, either mechanically or thematically?

The wife is to be the buffing machine; I'd max out IC with her (which will be difficult to start, as she'll be ~level 4) and generally make her spells buffs or debuffs. She'll have a few things RP specific in her gear/spells, but otherwise that's the idea. If she survives long enough, she might go towards Sublime Chord, or possibly Seeker of the Song (provided the GM okays it).

All I know about the rest of the party is that they're a fighter, a cleric, a mage blade (?), and a ranger. It's an urban campaign, so I'll probably try to swing something for the special mount, should my character survive long enough to get one.

I like the concept of a character who is devoted to a cause out of obligation rather than true faith. You ever hear someone pray, "God, if you'll just do this one thing for me, I'll join the convent/give all my money to the poor/become a missionary in Africa?" The idea behind the character is kind of "what happens when that wish comes true?"

[Solo]

Question:

Would Lingering Song be good for a bard, or should he just keep singing while attacking.

I have a bard with Perform (Dance), Melodic Casting, Versetile Performer and Lingering Song, and am trying to figure out if I can free up a feat.

[Killersquid]

I take the church isn't a chaotic/neutral good church is it? That mean no on a cleric class.

[tyckspoon]

Melodic Casting lets you cast and use magic items without interrupting your song. That should cover most of the situations where you might want to stop singing anyway, so Lingering Song is probably a little redundant unless it also happens to be a requisite for a PrC you want. The other option would be to drop Melodic Casting and just use Lingering Song, so you could sing once at the start of a fight and then have Lingering Song ensure the effect lasts throughout the rest of it while you cast and/or use items. I'd drop Lingering and look for something less redundant. Snowflake Wardance or a PrC requisite, maybe.

[Solo]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=57936

Here's the character.

He performs by dancing, and by singing, so I guess fighting won't interrupt the perform?


I have SFWD.

Maybe I should drop Lingering Song for Improved Initiative?

[Chronicled]

I think it's a very cool idea; whether it is too attention-grabby really depends on the other characters in the group. If your character seems to grab the spotlight unduly often, you can use that as an opportunity to practice good roleplaying habits by pulling other group members into the spotlight with you.

To be honest, I don't know why a bard doing some missions for the church wouldn't stay a bard. Just because in a sense your employer has changed doesn't mean that your method of dealing with problems would necessarily change as well. However, I'm sure that you can find a more than plausible reason for this. It really hinges on whether he's bought into the paladin ideals, or if his sense of obligation to doing good will ease off once the church has been paid off.

[JeminiZero]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=57936

He performs by dancing, and by singing, so I guess fighting won't interrupt the perform?

I happen to be trying to build a bard as well. The Bardic Inspire Courage specifically says that:

Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability.

Notably, it doesn't distinguish between what form of perform you use. So even if you are singing, with both hands and feet free, you still need to take a standard action to maintain the bard song. So you can't attack (unless your attack uses move actions) and Inspire Courage use songs that require concentration at the same time. It would seem that you need lingering song so that your Inspire Courage songs which require concentration lasts a minute after you stop, and start your snowflake wardance.

Edit: OK, I stand corrected, Inspire Courage can be used while attacking. But Lingering Song is still advisable to stack Inspire Courage and Dragonfire Inspiration (and maybe Inspire Greatness) on top of each other. That is , if you take Dragonfire Inspiration, since its listed under other notes, but not in your feat list.

[tyckspoon]

Notably, it doesn't distinguish between what form of perform you use. So even if you are singing, with both hands and feet free, you still need to take a standard action to maintain the bard song. So you can't attack (unless your attack uses move actions) and Inspire Courage at the same time. It would seem that you need lingering song so that your Inspire Courage lasts a minute after you stop, and start your snowflake wardance.

Read more carefully- some bardic music uses require concentration and must be sustained with a new standard action each round. The very next line refers to ones that don't need concentration; all you have to do to keep using those is say 'I keep singing' while you go about your normal action. The ones that take concentration say so in their individual entry, usually in the form of 'this ability lasts as long as the bard concentrates.' The combat buffs- Inspire Courage/Greatness/Heroism- do not require concentration.

[Hal]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this character will be seeing action soon and I was having some more thoughts on him.

So far, the build looks something like this (subject to revision):

Bard 1 (Power Attack, Human - ?)
Bard 2
Paladin 1 (Devoted Performer)
Paladin 2
Paladin 3
Bard 3 or Paladin 4 (Leadership/Snowflake Wardance/Divine Might)

Now, here's where I'm not sure where to proceed.

I'm generally to understand that getting to Paladin 5 is a good goal, probably to get something like the Charging Smite variant. After that, however, I'm not sure where to take the character. My strongest consideration at this point is spell-casting; do I push the Bard or Paladin spells?

If I go Bard, I might trade the Paladin spell casting for the Paladin bonus feats ACF. It only nets me one feat, but then I don't have to waste a feat slot on Divine Might.

Any thoughts on what would be the best options?