Jacqueries

[Jayngfet]

I was wondering about something, could the jaqueries work in DnD?

Peasants(commoners and experts) armed with scythes, sickles, improvised tridents(pitchforks), greatclubs, and such against Nobles(fighters, warriors and aristocrats) armed with spears, maces, swords and axes, peasants in leather armor and nobles in half and full plate.

Peasants are anywhere between levels 1-3 and nobles between 2-6.

Peasants outnumber nobles by 100 or so to one.

Assume no one has access to spells or any magic items whatsoever, and masterwork items are a rarity, only humans are involved.

[JaxGaret]

Why not?10characters

[Solo]

I was wondering about something, could the jaqueries work in DnD?

Peasants(commoners and experts) armed with scythes, sickles, improvised tridents(pitchforks), greatclubs, and such against Nobles(fighters, warriors and aristocrats) armed with spears, maces, swords and axes, peasants in leather armor and nobles in half and full plate.

Peasants are anywhere between levels 1-3 and nobles between 2-5.

Peasants outnumber nobles by 100 or so to one.

For Liberty, Equality, and Fraternities!

[BRC]

For Liberty, Equality, and Fraternities!

I cast Summon Frat Party IV
*Summons 1d4 toga wearing drunks*

[bosssmiley]

*Widened Cloudkill*

"There you go Mr Aristocrat, one Jacquerie resolved. Now, who do I see about my cheque?"

Strength of numbers tactics rarely worked in our world, and would be hideously foolish in a world of quadratic wizards.

The turnip-worshipping Baldricks in D&Dland are more horribly oppressed than the ones in the primary world ever were. They are underprivileged and deprived in a way that makes even the iniquities of modern income disparities look sane and reasonable.

The secret police in D&D really can read your mind and have secret spy cameras in any unshielded location. Spells like create food and water and fabricate subvert the yokel's position in the feudal order and undercut their bargaining power in the market. The haves get better medicine and even get to come back from the dead if they want to. The haves can wish for piles of gold big enough to sit on. Oh, and did I mention the swarms of monsters? Forget moles ruining your veggie patch, Jedediah has to contend with ankhegs and bulettes.

D&Dworld, whatever the pretensions of Eberron or the Realms, is always a classic kleptocratic despotism thanks to the rampant power disparity of commoners and classed characters. There is no law other than faustrecht, with the powerful taking what they want from the weak whenever they feel like it.

[Zeta Kai]

But the question then arises: Why would they want to? Anyone who has access to such magical power (even the aristocrats who merely purchase it) can see that there are other, better sources of power than one can get by ruling over the weak. In our world, standing on the backs of the masses is pretty much the end-all-be-all of power, whereas in "D&D World" there exists many paths to power which are seemingly greater & more efficient (arcane, divine, martial, etc.). Why bother oppressing the serfs when you can live in much more luxury wielding magical powers? The petty "power" gained by ruling over subject pales in comparison. Only the most myopically-LE would trouble themselves with such trivialities.

The real question is: Are the common folk in such a world even relevant at all?

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

wasn't there a Dwarfish Communist rebellion in some or other D&D setting (Chainmail?)?

I think rebellions could work very well in non-arcanocratic kingdoms, were the commons aren't spied upon with spells and such...

but then, in a setting where every character can use some form of magic... I don't know...

in the more low-fantasy settings it's easier I think.

rebellions have causes and effects. and even if a state is ruled with arcane forces, there might be dissenters within the upper-class, the kind of people who want the commons to have a better life... so they could set something up.

hehe, in WFRP it's the rebellions that rely most on magic, while the governments treat it as both a weapon in their arsenal and a threat to existance if controlled by undesirables.

[random11]

I was wondering about something, could the jaqueries work in DnD?

Peasants(commoners and experts) armed with scythes, sickles, improvised tridents(pitchforks), greatclubs, and such against Nobles(fighters, warriors and aristocrats) armed with spears, maces, swords and axes, peasants in leather armor and nobles in half and full plate.

Peasants are anywhere between levels 1-3 and nobles between 2-6.

Peasants outnumber nobles by 100 or so to one.

Assume no one has access to spells or any magic items whatsoever, and masterwork items are a rarity, only humans are involved.

Why wouldn't it work?
A 6th level fighter is good, but I don't think he is good enough to beat a hundred of 3rd levels, even if they are just commoners.

And that's the difference on the highest level. levels 4 against 2 or levels 2 against 1 should be even worse for the nobility.

[mostlyharmful]

In DnD world minus magic at the levels where it's all still at the luck of the dice (till about 6 or so) then numbers advantages like that are nothing to sneeze at should the rebels be able to bring them to bear. However give the nobles a bunch of horses (and thus mobility) and the ability to hire psycho mercenaries (with their moral breaking mass murdering bloodbath tendancies) I'd still bet on the ones with the cash and food stores and the strategic training and the basic leadership structure a big advantage.

[Ascension]

The haves can wish for piles of gold big enough to sit on. Oh, and did I mention the swarms of monsters? Forget moles ruining your veggie patch, Jedediah has to contend with ankhegs and bulettes.

You actually hit on two very important things there. First, since sufficient magical might can create substance from nothingness, formerly valuable metals and gems could be completely devalued by a properly motivated wizard or two. I doubt any form of currency would be able to retain its value for long in as high-magic a world as the average D&D setting. You'd have to organize the economy on the basis of barter in order to bring any sort of stability at all to trade.

Now that that's established, privilege will no longer be granted by mere money. What, then, gives the "haves" power? Well, for one thing, magic, but your mention of the swarms of monsters hints at the other way to gain prestige in such a world... as a slayer of monsters.

Thus, the power brokers in a D&D world would almost certainly be the adventurers. They have sufficient magical power to devalue currency, to devalue trade goods, to blackmail and/or depose any public official, and they have sufficient martial power to take land from the monsters and hold it, to protect the people who gather under their banner. With the wizened wizards and the expert monster slayers on their side, the adventurers are holding all the cards necessary to become the rulers of the world. They and they alone have access in abundance to the two powers which are still capable of granting privilege. What happens next is entirely dependent on their alignment.

[tyckspoon]

Why wouldn't it work?
A 6th level fighter is good, but I don't think he is good enough to beat a hundred of 3rd levels, even if they are just commoners.

And that's the difference on the highest level. levels 4 against 2 or levels 2 against 1 should be even worse for the nobility.

Mechanically? Because the Nobles have ACs of 17 or 18 and are attacking with at least a +3 bonus before any feats, quality, or stat bonuses, while the Commoners are attacking with (at the most charitable: 1 level, +1 stat with non-elite array, +1 Weapon Focus) +3 and have an AC of only 13 or possibly 14. Because the Nobles have more hit dice in better classes- a level 5 Warrior averages about 22 HP, which is good for several hits, while the nearest Commoner has a mere 7 and can be downed in one halfway-decent damage roll. And, most importantly, because it's all a melee fight: The advantage of numbers recedes when you can only pack at most 8 fighters against a single target, and that's if the noble in question gets completely separated from his own side. The math isn't a certainty, no.. but it does favor the noble side. If you want to make it a more 'realistic' outnumbering, you either need to give the commoners missile weapons or use something like the Mob rule in Cityscape to turn them from 100 non-threatening opponents into 1 real fight.