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2008-06-27, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I didn't see a thread like this one, so I thought I'd chip my two cents in.
It seems like WOTC is deliberately trying to make sure that there is a good race/class combo for everyone, this time around (and spelling it out for sheep).
While this is a good idea in principle, unfortunately, some classes have subtypes...and these subtypes are often not compatible with one another.
Look at the ranger - where you can either go TWF or Archer. Then Compare it to the Fighter, who is a melee specialist, but has the capacity to spec out in different weapon styles.
With either of these characters, there is no way to be good at everything that they could possibly do. For the ranger, you need a completely different statline, depending on which path you take. For the fighter, there just aren't enough feats to be great with every weapon type.
..so, in short, specialization is still the word of the day.
With that in mind, I thought I'd start a listing of the best Race/Class combos with an eye towards specializations, and a brief rationale for the recommendation.
I DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE ACCESS TO THE DMG OR MM.
Best:
Spoiler
PHB
Dragonborn - Paladin {Think: Superman}
With STR & CHA, this one's a no-brainer. One of the few race/class combos that might be able to 'do-it-all'. The racial AOE makes for a nice bonus, especially in mook-heavy combat. The Paladin can dish it out, but is not a striker or a fighter, which means focusing only on STR-based powers would probably be a mistake. Do not think twice about taking Bolstering Strike: it's the rough equivalent of a free vampiric weapon.
Dwarf - Cleric (Healer)
CON & WIS might not be a natural choice, but the resistance to pushing will help keep this guy 'in the pocket', and being able to use his healing surges as a minor action means he can heal himself and others on the same turn. Contrary to popular opinion, the cleric's primary function has got to be healing, unless there is more than one cleric in the party. It's what he does that no one else can do.
Eladrin - Wizard (INT) {Think: Green Lantern}
With a bonus to INT and the built in anti-squishy technology (Fey Step), the Eladrin is a must have for PHB wizards. Every power is INT based, in terms of hitting. In 4E, hitting is the biggest concern - dropping that encounter power or daily power and losing it because you missed just plain hurts. Kick in the Wand implement to help avoid this problem. The orb is nice, but if you never hit in the first place, who cares if their save is harder to make? The staff is an Akbar. Spend feats to get hide armor instead.
Elf - Ranger (Archer) {Think: Green Arrow}
Dex AND wisdom? Yes please. With many secondary effects based off of WIS, and a horde of ranged powers based off of dex, combined with the elven reroll racial feature? We have a winnah!
Halfling - Rogue (Daggers) {Think: Batman}
The way it is, the way it was, the way it will be: say it with me now: Halfling Rogue. Ah beloved dex-based fighter...armor & attack all in one package. Oh, and hey, daggers don't suck so hard no more.
Human - Fighter {Think: Hulk}
Fighter is a single stat class. Human is a single stat race. But that's not all: Human get that extra feat, which can be used for either getting Plate or Human Perseverance (your regular feat should be used for scale), making you one of the toughest damn SOBs on the game board. Add in the extra at will, go sword and board, and you're talking a tough nut to crack with a lot of early options.
Half-Elf - Warlord {Think: Captain America}
Wait, I know what you're thinking...(WTH?) But really, it's half elf FTW here. The Warlord is NOT a primary melee specialist. He is a leader/buffer. Get that + to CHA, and remember to focus on powers that make the rest of the group better in combat, or give your tank an extra attack, or move your party around when it isn't their turn. Make sure to take Diplomacy as a trained skill, and always have the party aid you with that +1 you give them so that you can be 'Super-effective'.
Half Elf - Warlock (Infernal)
CON + CHA makes this a reasonable choice.
Tiefling - Warlock (Infernal) {Think: Cyclops}
Um, yeah, Warlocks got screwed this ed <shrug>. Three seperate paths to choose from, and all of them require a different combination of stats. A striker, going for straight-up damage may be your best option here.
OTHER (Combinations I've heard about)
Githyanki - Wizard
Gnome - Rogue
Worst:
Spoiler
Dwarf - Rogue
Slow movement and no really useful stats boosted makes them pretty bad. If you want to be a Dwarven Trapfinder, better to be a Ranger and multiclass Rogue for Thievery. At least then, you get to use your Wisdom as an Archer.
Human - Cleric
Terrible clerics. The Cleric powers are so batty that you'll not want to take the third At-Will even if you got it for free (plus, Priest's Shield is <<< Righteous Smite).
Thoughts/Comments?Last edited by ravenkith; 2008-06-27 at 11:44 AM.
Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Tieflings actually make exciting Paladins.
With their extra-kill powers and natural Charisma, they can play a Charisma Paladin and use the spare INT for Religion, if they feel like it.
Half-Elves make excellent Infernal Warlocks, BTW - CON and CHA? They're as natural as Eladrin Wizards!
But worst? Humans make terrible clerics. The Cleric powers are so batty that you'll not want to take the third At-Will even if you got it for free (plus, Priest's Shield is <<< Righteous Smite). They're not so hot as Paladins either, to be honest.
Dwarven Rogues are probably not so good either - the slow movement and no really useful stats boosted makes them pretty bad. If you want to be a Dwarven Trapfinder, better to be a Ranger and multiclass Rogue for Thievery. At least then, you get to use your Wisdom as an Archer.Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
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2008-06-27, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Half-Elf warlords kick ass!
Altho, I think WOTC specifically planned it that way, so it would probably be just horrible if they didn't.
Also, how can you compare a half-elf to Captain America? Captain America is specifically awesome because he's 100% human, just to the highest power.
[/offtopic]I am continuing to have a social life. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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2008-06-27, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I like playing the "out of archtype" combos...
So far I have an Elven Warrior... thinking that I may do a Halfling Paladin, possibly a Dwarf Rogue... Tiefling Cleric....
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2008-06-27, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Please keep in mind that we're talking about the best combinations and the worst combinations here, in terms of statistical/play through advantage.
Anything I agree with will be added to my initial post 'for the record'.
If I don't agree with it, I'll try to explain why, and if I feel I have enough reasons to disagree, I'll leave it off.
I'm not sure I agree here. I mean, with only one of the two stats needed (possibly required) by the class in question, you've got to admit that they come out behind the Dragoborn, even with the added damage for bloodied foes (+1 = meh, IMHO). Plus, if you're taking the Tiefling in order to make a damage paladin, you're falling into a double-trap.
Half-Elves make excellent Infernal Warlocks, BTW - CON and CHA? They're as natural as Eladrin Wizards!
But worst? Humans make terrible clerics. The Cleric powers are so batty that you'll not want to take the third At-Will even if you got it for free (plus, Priest's Shield is <<< Righteous Smite).
They're not so hot as Paladins either, to be honest.
Dwarven Rogues are probably not so good either - the slow movement and no really useful stats boosted makes them pretty bad. If you want to be a Dwarven Trapfinder, better to be a Ranger and multiclass Rogue for Thievery. At least then, you get to use your Wisdom as an Archer.
Also:
When you think Warlord, you should think of Captain America (Pre-civil war 616, not Ultimate). Someone who's really polite, gets a lot of respect from those in power, kind of dangerous in a fight, and generally not someone you want to mess with if you're a normal human (read: mook). His real value, however, isn't seen until he's on a team with other heroes (such as the Avengers), when he steps up to the plate to make everyone else better at their jobs than they otherwise could be. In most combats, the the Warlord (Captain America) won't throw the deadliest punches, or take the bad guy down with one shot, but he'll get the bad guy into position for someone else to finish him off.Last edited by ravenkith; 2008-06-27 at 12:08 PM.
Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I have an excellent Elven Swordmaster (Fighter). He wears Scale Mail, has a greatsword, and has the Hit-and-Run attack to allow him to run through the ranks of the enemy (6 move in Heavy Armor!), slaying them in his wake.
To be honest though, I've been going to town with the Eladrin. It's hard to resist playing a snooty semi-aristocratic rogue who can teleport onto the stool next to the lovely lady at the bar and chat her up.
Also entertaining is the Eladrin Ranger who plans to get a lot of skill training so that he can use the LV 2 Ranger Utility to show that He Knows Best.Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
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2008-06-27, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Only 6 move? Why didnt you take Scale Armor Optimization... +1 AC and ignore the movement penalties....
That's one of the main reasons I went with Elf.. (that and there's a whole backstory I wrote and posted today... that no one has responded to... :P)
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2008-06-27, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Heroic Tier still.
Now, I also made a Swordwind Ranger (Elven Two-Blade) who, with the charge feat, gets to move 7 and then charge 9
My one problem is that I can't really figure out what to do with the Two-Blades - they don't get their strength bonus as at-wills, and they only get to apply their Quarry once per round. Considering elves already get Accuracy, doing the two-for-one approach doesn't make much sense.
I'm thinking that Dragonborn probably make good Two-Sworders, or Eladrin, since they can TP behind the Big Bad and start laying in with their Double-Blade Daily and Encounter power. NastyLead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
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2008-06-27, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Gnomes make excellent Warlocks, especially fey-pact.
Dwarves make good Strength paladins.
As mentioned, humans are not so hot for Cleric and Paladin.
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2008-06-27, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I think the MM and DMG have races for the other subtypes, actually: the gnome is clearly a sneak attack specialist, from what I've heard, stealthing in and out of battle with ease for CA.
What about Bugbear? don't they get DEX & STR in 4E? (armor & attack, respectively)Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-06-27, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
For some reason, Dwarf Rogue sounds silly to me anyway. I can't think of any other good or bad combos right now.
Oh! Idea idea. I'll list all the combos! (From PHB)
Dragonborn Cleric
Dragonborn Fighter
Dragonborn Paladin
Dragonborn Ranger
Dragonborn Rogue
Dragonborn Warlock
Dragonborn Warlord
Dragonborn Wizard
Dwarf Cleric
Dwarf Fighter
Dwarf Paladin
Dwarf Ranger
Dwarf Rogue
Dwarf Warlock
Dwarf Warlord
Dwarf Wizard
Eladrin Cleric
Eladrin Fighter
Eladrin Paladin
Eladrin Ranger
Eladrin Rogue
Eladrin Warlock
Eladrin Warlord
Eladrin Wizard
Elf Cleric
Elf Fighter
Elf Paladin
Elf Ranger
Elf Rogue
Elf Warlock
Elf Warlord
Elf Wizard
Half-Elf Cleric
Half-Elf Fighter
Half-Elf Paladin
Half-Elf Ranger
Half-Elf Rogue
Half-Elf Warlock
Half-Elf Warlord
Half-Elf Wizard
Halfing Cleric
Halfing Fighter
Halfing Paladin
Halfing Ranger
Halfing Rogue
Halfing Warlock
Halfing Warlord
Halfing Wizard
Human Cleric
Human Fighter
Human Paladin
Human Ranger
Human Rogue
Human Warlock
Human Warlord
Human Wizard
Tiefling Cleric
Tiefling Fighter
Tiefling Paladin
Tiefling Ranger
Tiefling Rogue
Tiefling Warlock
Tiefling Warlord
Tiefling WizardThanks to zegma for my awesome avatar.
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2008-06-27, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Actually, it might be a good idea to rate them using a star system or something...
Code:*****: Five Stars - Best **** : Four Stars - Good *** : Three Stars - Average ** : Two Stars - Poor. * : One Star - Execrable.
Spoiler
Dragonborn:
Spoiler
Dragonborn Cleric *
Dragonborn Fighter ***
Dragonborn Paladin *****
Dragonborn Ranger ***
Dragonborn Rogue **
Dragonborn Warlock *
Dragonborn Warlord ****
Dragonborn Wizard *
Dwarf:
Spoiler
Dwarf Cleric ****
Dwarf Fighter **
Dwarf Paladin ***
Dwarf Ranger ***
Dwarf Rogue *
Dwarf Warlock *
Dwarf Warlord *
Dwarf Wizard *
Eladrin:
Spoiler
Eladrin Cleric *
Eladrin Fighter *
Eladrin Paladin *
Eladrin Ranger ****
Eladrin Rogue ***
Eladrin Warlock *
Eladrin Warlord *
Eladrin Wizard *****
Elf:
Spoiler
Elf Cleric ****
Elf Fighter **
Elf Paladin ***
Elf Ranger *****
Elf Rogue ****
Elf Warlock **
Elf Warlord **
Elf Wizard **
Half-Elf
Spoiler
Half-Elf Cleric **
Half-Elf Fighter **
Half-Elf Paladin ***
Half-Elf Ranger *
Half-Elf Rogue **
Half-Elf Warlock ****
Half-Elf Warlord ****
Half-Elf Wizard *
Halfling:
Spoiler
Halfing Cleric ***
Halfing Fighter *
Halfing Paladin ***
Halfing Ranger ***
Halfing Rogue *****
Halfing Warlock ****
Halfing Warlord **
Halfing Wizard *
Human:
Spoiler
Human Cleric **
Human Fighter *****
Human Paladin **
Human Ranger ***
Human Rogue ***
Human Warlock ***
Human Warlord ***
Human Wizard ****
Tiefling:
Spoiler
Tiefling Cleric **
Tiefling Fighter *
Tiefling Paladin ***
Tiefling Ranger *
Tiefling Rogue **
Tiefling Warlock ****
Tiefling Warlord ***
Tiefling Wizard ****
Last edited by ravenkith; 2008-06-27 at 01:48 PM.
Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Have to disagree with you about the Staff of Defence. The Wand will give you your Dex bonus to hit once per encounter, yes, but otherwise the points you're putting into Dex are wasted, as you already get your Int bonus to AC anyway. Your Int is going to be maxed, so with leather armour you've already got an AC of 17 at first level, the same as a 2HW Fighter in scale armour.
Plus, Hide armour proficiency requires a Constitution AND a Strength of 13. There's absolutely no mechanical reason for a wizard to get Strength 13.
Re. the need to hit, yes, obviously. But there are a million ways to get situational hit bonuses in 4e, not least of which involve cooperating with the party. If you're a human, you can also get Action Surge for +3 by spending an Action Point to cast your Daily Power, giving you the same advantage as a wand caster with a Dex of 16.
The Staff doesn't just give a +1 AC. It also does this:
Originally Posted by PHB 157
The Staff of Defence is probably why you've heard about the Githyanki Wizard (+2 Int, +2 Con, use Telekinesis to hurl yourself or an ally 6 squares) that is IMHO already better than the Eladrin. But Human Wizard should also be on your list: the extra power alone is worth losing +2 to a second stat because the wizard's at-wills are so well-balanced and functional,
EDIT ...and because they play off each other so well. With 3 At-Wills you can afford to get both Thunder Wave and Scorching burst - then you can push enemies into a clump and burn them on the same round by spending an Action point. By ravenkith's rating system, Human Wizard should be 5 stars.Last edited by Antacid; 2008-06-27 at 02:08 PM.
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2008-06-27, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Gnome specials are definitely geared toward rogues, reactive stealth and fade away both being easy ways to get CA. Their stats, however, (same as Tiefling) seem better geared towards an arcane class or warlord.
Fade away then retains some of its utility as an anti-squish mechanic. Not a lot to be done about reactive stealth though, unless you multiclass into ranger and use it for early positioning purposes.
On the other hand, a gnome rogue could just make int his 8 stat and use cha for the defensive option.Lantanese gnome avatar by the talented Honest Tiefling.
Don't call it a rework - 5e Ranger optional class features
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2008-06-27, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I already have the human wizard rated at a 4. There is only room for one 'best' rated class for each race, and while you make some valid points, I'm not convinced that Human Wizard > Human Fighter.
1. The enemy can't hit you if he's dead. With the wizard's daily powers, if they are successful, if the bad guy isn't deat after you cast it, he soon will be.
2. The enemy can't hurt you if he can't hit you. While this would seem to be a point in favor of the staff, it's actually not: the best way to avoid getting hit is to stay out of melee in the first place!
Plus, Hide armour proficiency requires a Constitution AND a Strength of 13. There's absolutely no good reason for a wizard to get Strength 13.
2. With the devaluation of feats, spending 2 on a +3 to AC is a negligible cost.
3. Spending three points to go from ten to 13 is significant, but not overly expensive. Remember that STR also adds to your FORT defense, so upping STR is also useful in that arena.
Re. the need to hit, yes, obviously. But there are a million ways to get situational hit bonuses in 4e, not least of which involve cooperating with the party. If you're a human, you can also get Action Surge for +3 by spending an Action Point to cast your Daily Power, giving you the same advantage as a wand caster with a Dex of 16.
In other words, after you're hit for X damage, you can decide to completely ignore the attack as long as the roll + attack modifier was lower than your defence + your Con bonus. Even if the DM is rolling behind the screen, you still have a decent chance of stopping most level-appropriate attacks as long as your Constitution is reasonably high (14+); and you'll have more HP and surges to keep going if the attack still hits.
The Staff of Defence is probably why you've heard about the Githyanki Wizard (+2 Int, +2 Con, use Telekinesis to hurl yourself or an ally 6 squares) that is IMHO already better than the Eladrin.
A quick person would point out that the wand is the same way. Unfortunately that doesn't take into account the fact that the CON bonus to HP and the Staff power actually only ever come into play if you have already been hit, by nature being a last ditch defense.
The added AC, and FORT save associated with going the armor route are always on, and will help protect you from multiple attacks/battle as opposed to just one.
But Human Wizard should also be on your list: the extra power alone is worth losing +2 to a second stat because the wizard's at-wills are so well-balanced and functional,
EDIT ...and because they play off each other so well. With 3 At-Wills you can afford to get both Thunder Wave and Scorching burst - then you can push enemies into a clump and burn them on the same round by spending an Action point. By ravenkith's rating system, Human Wizard should be 5 stars.
In terms of ease of use and concentrated power, the fighter is the best class for humans. Wizard is a close second.Last edited by ravenkith; 2008-06-27 at 02:32 PM.
Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I'm not going to argue with the official rating system
1. The enemy can't hit you if he's dead. With the wizard's daily powers, if they are successful, if the bad guy isn't death after you cast it, he soon will be.
2. The enemy can't hurt you if he can't hit you. While this would seem to be a point in favor of the staff, it's actually not: the best way to avoid getting hit is to stay out of melee in the first place!
1. Well yeah, actually, there is - +3 to AC and magical armor benefits. With the limitations to the number of powers available per day, as compared to previous wizard versions, using a spell for an armor buff is going to prove a poor choice in most cases. Remember AC is ALWAYS on.
2. With the devaluation of feats, spending 2 on a +3 to AC is a negligible cost.
3. Spending three points to go from ten to 13 is significant, but not overly expensive. Remember that STR also adds to your FORT defense, so upping STR is also useful in that arena.
Or you can Spend the action surge and the wand and get a net +6, virtually guaranteeing a hit.
the CON bonus to HP and the Staff power actually only ever come into play if you have already been hit, by nature being a last ditch defence.
I really like Human Wizard, I do. But....Fighter is a one-stat class, while wizard is a two stat (depending on which implement you take). This means that you can afford to pay for that base 18 before your racial bonus everytime out of the gate with fighter, while with wizrd you have to spread your points around more in order to be effective.Last edited by Antacid; 2008-06-27 at 03:23 PM.
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2008-06-27, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Dragonborn can make good enough warlocks with their charisma bonus and breath weapon.
I take this game with the seriousness it deserves.
Not all that much. It's a game.
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2008-06-27, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Really? Confused?
Seems pretty straightforward to me:
1. 90%+ of the Fighter classes features & powers are strength-based. If you put an 18 in strength and a ten in everything else, you'd still be ok as a fighter. You automatically get proficiency in armor & shields. A lot of your high-end 1-shot powers are reliable, meaning that even if you miss, you will still get to try again with the power - it isn't wasted. This in turn means that you can afford to put a 16 in STR instead of an 18, if you really wanted to, because it won't necessarily screw you in the end.
2. With the wizard, INT must be eighteen. Your powers are what will turn the course of a battle: one screwed up spell and it may well be TPK time. At least one other stat is going to have to be 14+ (for your implement), in order for you to be competent at your job. Given the low number of hit points associated with the class, probably con too. Not to mention any feats required for armor, etc., etc.
The fighter is just a better package deal. <shrug>Three things to remember about D&D:
1. Always go right. It's right, after all.
2. If it's not a party member, it's just XP.
3. D&D is the only game where you really can kill first and ask questions later.
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2008-06-27, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
I wish I had the time to break down all the playable MM races for what classes they work well with by the 5-star system, but I don't. I will say that when I first looked at them, they seemed underpowered when compared to the PHB races; now that I am more familiar with the system, they seem pretty comparably balanced, with some perhaps a shade weaker.
Here's a quick run-through:
Bugbears make excellent TWF Rangers and Brutal Scoundrels.
Doppelgangers make amazing Facelocks, and their racial power can be used by pretty much any class.
Drow are awesome Rogues.
Githyanki are excellent Wizards.
Githzerai make pretty sweet Archery Rangers.
Gnolls make okay Brutal Scoundrels.
Gnomes are stealth master Artful Dodgers.
Goblins are also stealthy defensive Artful Dodgers, but with a different twist.
Hobgoblins make nice Warlocks and Paladins. Their racial power is good for anyone.
Kobolds do their shifty Kobold thing, good at being trapstoppers, obviously.
Minotaurs make great TWF Rangers and Fighters.
Orcs pretty much suck.
Shadar-Kai also are not very good.
Longtooth and Razorclaw Shifters make very solid TWF and Archery Rangers, respectively.
Warforged are simply Fighters who will not go down. Robots ftw!Last edited by JaxGaret; 2008-06-27 at 05:01 PM.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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2008-06-27, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
The Orc racial power seems pretty good to me, though I could be wrong here. They seem like they'd make pretty good hammer-fighters if nothing else. Spending a healing surge can sometimes turn the tide of a battle.
I'd like to throw out that while Tiefling Fighters are pretty much the worst combination, it's still an entirely playable choice. Starting with a 16 strength instead of 18 isn't an unreachable gap. Fire Resistance can also be great with a pyro wizard in the party*, but that's about as far as synergy goes. Even the worst choices are entirely playable out of the box though, which is nice.
*: When your party pyromaniac wizard is indecisive as to where to put his Scorching Burst or his burning hands, being able to ecourage him to center it on you is actually kind of humorous. "Hit me! Go ahead, I'll be fine!"
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2008-06-27, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Totally agree. The bugbear Ranger in my game is scimitar/short sword (he likes both since light blades have better hit chance and feats at heroic, but scimitar dance is good paragon choice). Str 19 after racials at 1st.
Warforged are simply Fighters who will not go down. Robots ftw!
Tsadrin:
I think the OP meant Toughness (+5 hp/tier is nice, basically equals a level in 4th).
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2008-06-27, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-06-27, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
Nah.
Remember that they get +1 to hit Bloodied Opponents, and get an Encounter Damage Booster as well. Plus you can boost their Rebuke to have some knockback as well, and you can use Intimidate to force enemies to surrender.
I'd say Human Warlocks are probably worse, since Warlocks are inherently MAD (all require either CHA and CON to hit things, but they also need INT to provide AC). Plus, getting an extra Pact at-will generally makes life worse, since they don't have great synergies.
But... the charts disagree? Is it because Fighters already get enough to-hit bonuses, and don't need to do more damage? Am I missing something with the Human Warlock?
EDIT: Yeah, I think it was accidental that humans made bad clerics and paladins. If only the Divine Feats were better, then the extra Feat would really make up for the worthless spare At-Will.Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2008-06-27 at 06:43 PM.
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2008-06-27, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4E - Best (& Worst) Class & Race Combos
If by "trapstoppers" you mean Rogue instead of "only good for taking damage for the other characters", then yes. If you don't need your minor action for something else, this gives them the ability to shift 2 squares per turn -- or to move 7. And you haven't seen Hong Kong D&D until you've seen kobolds charge every turn...
RE: Dragonborn Warlord. I'm curious as to the reasoning for them being a 4-star instead of 5-star. The Dragonborn Warlord in my theorycrafting efforts came out looking like one of the best characters.
RE: Fighters being one-stat. Interesting. It looked to me like they'd done a better job than ever of giving them a reason to have the other stats. I'll give it a second once over (I've already discovered one major mistake regarding HP at first level I was making, for example).Last edited by TheEmerged; 2008-06-27 at 07:15 PM.
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