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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    I am working on an unseen seer with questionable ethics. The entry into the PrC is going to be sorcerer 3/rogue 2.
    With a bit of work on making choices and declaring my basis of ideas with my DM I am going to go with the drconic heritage feats from an assortment of splatbooks. My progression ATM is:
    1 sorcerer draconic heritage (blue), draconic claw
    2 sorcerer
    3 sorcerer draconic senses
    4 rogue
    5 rogue
    6 unseen seer blue dragon heritage
    7 unseen seer
    8 unseen seer
    9 unseen seer draconic legacy

    After that I'll finish the unseen seer levels and go either all sorcerer or into dragonheart Mage or spellwarped sniper, I am not to sure yet. But the idea is to pull some stunts with ranged touch spells and sneak attack. Which way would latter progression be best? And am I on the right track for filling a rogues postion in a party also?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    First of all, you want your first level to be in rogue, not sorcerer. Rogue will get more benefit from the maximized first hit die and quadrupled skill points.

    Second, once you get a few levels under your belt, you'll be just fine as a skillmonkey. They multiclass well, as long as most of your levels have a bunch of skill points and a good skill list (both of which are true of Unseen Seer).

    I don't have much advice for progression after you finish the US levels, though.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    I'd recommend rogue 1 / sorcerer 4 instead. There's no need for two rogue levels. After you finish US, consider Arcane Trickster, simply because it's better than sorcerer. Spellwarp sniper isn't worth it, don't do that.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Dec 2007
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    Finland
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    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    If you want to fill Rogue's slot, Wizard-entry would work better as Wizard means high Int which allows you to get enough skills to fill the job; as a sorcerer you'd need to pump Int a lot with no real gain. If you have the points for that though, go for it, of course. And yea, take the first level in whatever is your skill class; getting the sweet 8+Int skills X4 means you get to max all the important skills on first level and few you don't really plan on adding to later.

    You could probably do without Able Learner, but that's gonna but an immense strain on your Wizard-levels as the skillpoints are nearly wasted with you not having any of the relevant ones on your list; Sorcerer is no better in this regard. After you get to Unseen Seer though, you'll be fine maxing all the skills you need, if necessary Cross Classing Disable Device and Open Lock (at least one or the other). You should hope for around 10 skillpoints per level, which should be sufficient, although Human Wizard could get as many as 11, getting to 12 at 8 and getting a book of Int ASAP to up it to 13.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    If you want to fill Rogue's slot, Wizard-entry would work better
    True.

    I believe, doing the math, that this does require the Able Learner feat, or a human with excessive intelligence; however, it is still better to spend a feat there than to take two rogue levels.

    After you get to Unseen Seer though, you'll be fine maxing all the skills you need, if necessary Cross Classing Disable Device and Open Lock
    Oh, and instead of Open Lock, I'd suggest putting Knock on your spell list.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Oh, and instead of Open Lock, I'd suggest putting Knock on your spell list.
    Most of the time that's as good. Some locks you don't want to Knock though (I especially think of certain one in Tomb of Horrors...). But yea, those are so specialized cases that you'll save lots of time ignoring Open Lock. Get a Wand of Knock. That's the easiest way to go about it, and means Knocking things doesn't slow you down.


    And yea, Able Learner would help, especially on the early levels, but once you start to get your Int flowing and reach midlevels, you can potentially make do without. Optimally you could even do this with no non-Wizard levels at all (getting Trapfinding through the Cleric-domain with Domain Granted Power or Planar Touchstone-feat), but that would mean your first level points wouldn't be numerous enough for a Rogue and it's hard to make up for the first level 4x scores, so meh.

    Also, if you're allowed to leave 5 points in store for the next level (a reasonable houserule; allows you to focus on something more thoroughly) or to use PHBII skill retraining (it's really good for multiclass characters without Able Learner; my Dervish has kept up the trapfinding and overall skill monkey-role whole game with just 5 levels in Scout total), this gets much better immediately.


    Don't forget to pick up Practiced Spellcaster, btw. This not only makes up for the Rogue-level you're forced to pick, but fixes the aggravating tendency Unseen Seer has of ****ing up your spell progression with the "Divination Spell Power"-class "feature", which means you lose caster level in all but Divination-spells. With Practiced Spellcaster, a Rogue 1/Wizard (or Sorc) 4/Unseen Seer 10/X 5 still has full caster level (and a nice +3 HD in Divination). So many spells get ****ed with lowered caster level that it's really a must to get. The price you pay for getting the awesomeness that is Unseen Seer; Unseen Seer really effectively has the prerequisite of Practiced Spellcaster -.-

    Arcane Trickster is an ok progression after that (4 skillpoints per level, decent list and handy abilities along with Sneak Attack-progression - 4 per level starts to be plenty as level 16 means your Int will already be around 24 counting a +2 book; that's +7 and Human for +8, so 12 per level ain't bad when all relevant ones are in class), but requires worthless skills to enter (Decipher Script and Escape Artist? Really?). Other than that, the normal Wizard Prestiges are open to you. They tend to stunt your skillpoint growth, but this is already level 16 so you'll have plenty. I'd still go with Arcane Trickster ultimately though, at the expense of those skillpoints since it allows you to max out the Rogue-skills, and indeed provides you with the extremely handy Ranged Legerdemain.


    EDIT: Spellwarped Sniper is an ok finish if, and only if you've got Able Learner. Otherwise, you'll get skillgucked. Dragonheart Mage is just 2/level, so I wouldn't consider it even with Wizard-basis. If you do go with Sorcerer-base, you're basically forced to take Arcane Trickster and even then you'll be real low in skills towards the end. The Unseen Seer-levels would be ok with just 16 Int and Human though, but the lack of level increases (you need them in Charisma if you go Sorc-base) mean that you'll have less skills maxed. Just stick to the non-social ones and let your Charisma-modifier do the talking.

    Human Able Learner Rogue 1/Sorcerer 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarped Sniper 5 with Int 16 and fractional BAB would be quite decent though; BAB 14, a total of 32+8+60+20+Intx23 = 120+Intx23 skillpoints (equals to 6 points for every level over 20 levels; lacks just 18 points from a straight Factotum - the first level ones) and a 19th level Sorc casting.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-07-04 at 07:28 PM.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    I guess no one picked up on the heritage feats... o well thanks yall, I am going to go with spellwarped later on in progression.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Finland
    Gender
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    Default Re: 3.5 unseen seer with flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by DareTheRogue View Post
    I guess no one picked up on the heritage feats... o well thanks yall, I am going to go with spellwarped later on in progression.
    I did realize them, it's just a problem since you really, really need extra skills and they don't really contribute to that (thus making your Roguism worse). Otherwise, knock yourself out.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

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