[4e Monsters] The Zerg (PEACH)

[Holocron Coder]

Yes, here we go... I wanted to try out the 4e monster creation by making the Zerg. [BM] is basic melee, [M] is melee, [BR] is basic ranged and [R] is ranged.

Zerg Larva: (Level 1 Minion)

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Zerg Drone: (Level 2 Skirmisher)

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Zergling: (Level 5 Soldier)

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Hydralisk: (Level 8 Artillery)

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Defiler: (Level 9 Controller)

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Ultralisk: (Level 17 Elite Brute)

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[mikeejimbo]

It was only a matter of time...

[DiscipleofBob]

Very nice formatting. I'd like to see a Minion version of the Zerg just so Zerg rushes can be done.

Also, shouldn't zerg be small-sized and hydralisks be medium? At least that's the way I remember them from Starcraft.

[Holocron Coder]

Very nice formatting. I'd like to see a Minion version of the Zerg just so Zerg rushes can be done.

Also, shouldn't zerg be small-sized and hydralisks be medium? At least that's the way I remember them from Starcraft.

The different videos showed zerglings as generally the size of a large dog/wolf. Hydralisks outsized Marines in power suits.

Thanks on the formatting :) took some work (and NOT via an image program!)

[mikeejimbo]

I dunno, I thought that zerglings were almost the size of Marines. I'd say they're kind of like the dwarves. I think that the sizes are about right.

There should be a zergling minion though. I definitely agree with that.

[Colmarr]

Some thoughts:

Zergling:

Should the bonus atk and damage only be against the bloodied foe?

Does the Burrow ability allow the zergling to move squares underground (ie. from square A3 to square F5) or only to disappear into the ground? It's a while since I played Starcraft but IIRC it's the latter. Perhaps zerglings would be better built as lurkers?

The Erupt moves should say "if the Zergling erupts adjacent to an enemy". The word "near" is just confusing. You also need to specify whether the attack is a separate action or whether it's part of the Erupt (effectively allowing the Zergling to attack as a move action in the right circumstances).

Hydralisk:

Area Burst 3 is a 7x7 square. That seems awfully large and I don't remember the Starcraft hydralisk having an equivalent ability.

[Goober4473]

Note: It's Stealth, not Hide.

I like the idea. I hadn't though of doing Zerg in 4th Edition. I made them back in 3.5, but they just didn't feel right. I think the new system fits them pretty well.

Another note: Frenzy I'm guessing is shooting a needle spine? Those are hydrolically propelled bone spines, so the acid subtype isn't appropriate.

Also, they should probably resist poison also.

[Holocron Coder]

Zergling:

Should the bonus atk and damage only be against the bloodied foe?

Fixed the wording on this... it's supposed to be against any foe once any foe is bloodied. Imagine a shark feeding frenzy.

Does the Burrow ability allow the zergling to move squares underground (ie. from square A3 to square F5) or only to disappear into the ground? It's a while since I played Starcraft but IIRC it's the latter. Perhaps zerglings would be better built as lurkers?

Fixed the wording as well. They shouldn't move underground... And no, all zerg were able to burrow, so they're all getting it Lurkers will be special, later on.

The Erupt moves should say "if the Zergling erupts adjacent to an enemy". The word "near" is just confusing. You also need to specify whether the attack is a separate action or whether it's part of the Erupt (effectively allowing the Zergling to attack as a move action in the right circumstances).

Done. Changed the wording to make it a bonus until next turn (thus, affecting attack actions).

Hydralisk:

Area Burst 3 is a 7x7 square. That seems awfully large and I don't remember the Starcraft hydralisk having an equivalent ability.

True, dropped it to burst 1 (a 3x3 square).

Note: It's Stealth, not Hide.

Fixed.

Another note: Frenzy I'm guessing is shooting a needle spine? Those are hydrolically propelled bone spines, so the acid subtype isn't appropriate.

Oops, that was a typo while copying the template... It's "Needle Spines." Also, in-game, it always appeared that it was needles mixed in with some acid. At any rate, doesn't seem like bone 'arrows' would penetrate marine or tank armor very well, so... acid seems appropriate.

Also, they should probably resist poison also.

Oddly enough, Poison resist actually isn't an option as far as I can tell.


Alright, updating the stat blocks as soon as I finish this post. Expect the defiler and ultralisk later today.

[mikeejimbo]

Fixed the wording as well. They shouldn't move underground... And no, all zerg were able to burrow, so they're all getting it Lurkers will be special, later on.

Not true - the Ultralisk couldn't.

[Holocron Coder]

Not true - the Ultralisk couldn't.

...True. Although, I think they changed that in Starcraft 2.... scarily enough. I'll probably keep it off, though.

Wish I had access to my books at school I could work on this during breaks.

[Goober4473]

I believe Colmarr meant the lurker monster role, not the Zerg strain.

The hydralisk unit in StarCraft appears to be spitting acid, but that's pretty much due to poor graphics. If you read the flavor, it's propelling armor-piercing needle spines. There's nothing about the spines being acidic. Of course, your monster's attack doesn't deal acid damage anyways, it just has the keyword, which I think might be incorrect formatting. "Acid" just means "note: this attack deals at least some acid damage."

Poison is a damage type like acid or fire, so you can make a monster resist it if you want.

[Chronos]

Int 5 seems too high for zerglings. I always figured them at base animal intelligence at most, and possibly --. Or is the scale different in 4e?

[Holocron Coder]

Int 5 seems too high for zerglings. I always figured them at base animal intelligence at most, and possibly --. Or is the scale different in 4e?

I based it against Dire wolves at Int 5. Regular wolves still have Int 2.

[Holocron Coder]

I believe Colmarr meant the lurker monster role, not the Zerg strain.

The hydralisk unit in StarCraft appears to be spitting acid, but that's pretty much due to poor graphics. If you read the flavor, it's propelling armor-piercing needle spines. There's nothing about the spines being acidic. Of course, your monster's attack doesn't deal acid damage anyways, it just has the keyword, which I think might be incorrect formatting. "Acid" just means "note: this attack deals at least some acid damage."

Hm, I suppose that's true. Should I change it back to basic damage or change it to read "2d6+5 acid damage"?

Poison is a damage type like acid or fire, so you can make a monster resist it if you want.

Hm. Re-reading it, I can see where that's true. Poison is listed as a damage type, but I was originally going off of the wording for "Variable Resistance" which doesn't list Poison as an option to be resisted.

[Recaiden]

I based it against Dire wolves at Int 5. Regular wolves still have Int 2.

I still think 5 is high. Zerg are controlled by cerebrates, and without them they just run around and kill things or each other. I think perhaps overlords should be higher, but the others would be only 1 or 2.

[Colmarr]

Daedu,

The header for burrow says that it's a move action, but the text says it's a standard action. I think you should also specifically state that the Zergling and Hydralisk can't move while burrowed other than to Erupt.

The changes to the Erupt ability also don't seem to address my initial concern. I'd recommend rewording it as "A zergling may erupt from the ground as a move action. Any attacks that the zergling makes in the same turn as erupting gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls and do an additional 1d8 damage. The square that the zergling erupted from becomes difficult terrain."

[Holocron Coder]

Daedu,

The header for burrow says that it's a move action, but the text says it's a standard action. I think you should also specifically state that the Zergling and Hydralisk can't move while burrowed other than to Erupt.

It does mention that they can't move while burrowed. The exception, obviously, is erupt, as it specifies while burrowed. I'll change the standard-action mistake.

The changes to the Erupt ability also don't seem to address my initial concern. I'd recommend rewording it as "A zergling may erupt from the ground as a move action. Any attacks that the zergling makes in the same turn as erupting gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls and do an additional 1d8 damage. The square that the zergling erupted from becomes difficult terrain."

The power says that it grants the bonus "until the beginning of the zergling's next turn." Written as-is, it does solve the problem; it grants a bonus not an attack, and it only lasts this round. In my case, however, it grants the bonus to an OAs the zergling may make until his next turn. It's a surprise-round type of bonus.

[ImpFireball]

Hm, I suppose that's true. Should I change it back to basic damage or change it to read "2d6+5 acid damage"?


Hm. Re-reading it, I can see where that's true. Poison is listed as a damage type, but I was originally going off of the wording for "Variable Resistance" which doesn't list Poison as an option to be resisted.

Why not 'armor piercing needle spines coated in acid' {Scrubbed} ?

[Aevylmar]

First: Awesomeness.

Second: The Zerglings don't look like Skirmishers, as they don't have any abilities to encourage hit-and-run tactics. I'd guess that they're either Lurkers or Brutes.

Third: Awesomeness.

[Colmarr]

It does mention that they can't move while burrowed. The exception, obviously, is erupt, as it specifies while burrowed. I'll change the standard-action mistake.


The power says that it grants the bonus "until the beginning of the zergling's next turn." Written as-is, it does solve the problem; it grants a bonus not an attack, and it only lasts this round. In my case, however, it grants the bonus to an OAs the zergling may make until his next turn. It's a surprise-round type of bonus.

Hmm. Not sure what happened there but when I made my post the issues I was raising were not updated in your monster stats. Ie. the Frenzy amendment was there but the stuff for Burrow and Erupt weren't. Sorry for the confusion...

[Holocron Coder]

No problem, Colmarr

Defiler posted! Next: Ultralisk!

[Ing]

Hope you don't mind a little help/contribution

[Holocron Coder]

Hope you don't mind a little help/contribution

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Mmm, minions don't quite work that way. You give them a single simple attack (if I remember, these were the "chestburster" units. so, just a bite) and it does absolute minimum for their level (check the chart for level 10, take the low damage, convert d# to # (2d6+4 = 6)).

Otherwise, not bad

[Colmarr]

No problem, Colmarr

Defiler posted! Next: Ultralisk!

The defiler looks good, although it's unclear how long the concealment from the Dark Swarm ability lasts. If it's an ongoing effect that stays in the area, maybe it should be a Zone?

As for the Cannibalize ability, I don't think I've yet seen a 4e ability that was "full-round". Although it might be a semantic argument, another way of wording this might be "If the Defiler begins its turn adjacent to a corpse (other than an undead creature), it may ... The Defiler may not move on the same turn that it uses its Cannibalize ability."

Finally, is it intentional that the Defiler has no melee attacks whatsoever? That makes sense in a computer RTS, but not so much in a pen and paper RPG. Even if you don't want to give it a melee attack, maybe consider a Close Blast 1 power to allow it to attack adjacent targets without drawing OAs.

[Holocron Coder]

The defiler looks good, although it's unclear how long the concealment from the Dark Swarm ability lasts. If it's an ongoing effect that stays in the area, maybe it should be a Zone?

As for the Cannibalize ability, I don't think I've yet seen a 4e ability that was "full-round". Although it might be a semantic argument, another way of wording this might be "If the Defiler begins its turn adjacent to a corpse (other than an undead creature), it may ... The Defiler may not move on the same turn that it uses its Cannibalize ability."

Finally, is it intentional that the Defiler has no melee attacks whatsoever? That makes sense in a computer RTS, but not so much in a pen and paper RPG. Even if you don't want to give it a melee attack, maybe consider a Close Blast 1 power to allow it to attack adjacent targets without drawing OAs.

Good points. As for the defiler, it is on purpose. Defiler in melee = teh suck.

[Ing]

Mmm, minions don't quite work that way. You give them a single simple attack (if I remember, these were the "chestburster" units. so, just a bite) and it does absolute minimum for their level (check the chart for level 10, take the low damage, convert d# to # (2d6+4 = 6)).

Otherwise, not bad

True but these aren't NORMAL minions The Scourge were the flying types that blew themselves up when they rammed an object.

[Holocron Coder]

True but these aren't NORMAL minions The Scourge were the flying types that blew themselves up when they rammed an object.

o, yeah, THOSE... still, minions do a static damage amount. I'm planning on doing two other ones similar. Do area damage, but a set value. Like... Blast 2; 6 damage.

[Holocron Coder]

Ultralisk posted! Level 17 Elite Brute.

As always, point out if something is incorrect or looks imbalanced

[mikeejimbo]

Went with the SC2 version, where they CAN burrow? Scary.

"Hey, what's this big pile of dirt doing here in the middle of - AAAAAAH"

[Holocron Coder]

Went with the SC2 version, where they CAN burrow? Scary.

"Hey, what's this big pile of dirt doing here in the middle of - AAAAAAH"

Hehe, seriously ^_^ At this rate, all the ground-based zerg will have burrow