You are Ruining MY D&D!!!

[Tormsskull]

A statement that someone might say if they found the most pure or integral parts of D&D removed. Every edition change has seen some people label this charge, with many others disagreeing.

So the question is, what, in its purest form, is D&D? Or, in other words, is there anything that WotC (or if someone were to buy the D&D brand away from them) could remove from a future edition of the game that would immediately make you think it was no longer D&D?

Personally, I think the things below are required for any edition of D&D (not in any particular order):

1. Using a 20-sided die.
2. Playable Races: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings.
3. Playable Classes: Fighters, Clerics, Magic-users, Thieves (or their equivalent names & feel).
4. Magic (in general) and Magical Items.
5. Magic Missile.

Those are the only things I can think of off the top of my head that really seem like integral parts of D&D to me.

What things are integral to D&D in your mind?

[pantoffelheld]

There should be a dungeon.
And a dragon

That's all I ask, baby

[Ecalsneerg]

1. Dragons, but oddly, not dungeons. Not my forte.
2. Humans, Half-Elves, Elves, Dwarves and Halflings.
3. Arcane spellcasters, clerics, rogue-types and fighter-types.
4. Rangers with at least optional spells (by alternate class features, multiclassing to cleric, etc etc)
5. A spell called magic missile is definitely seconded.
6. A handful of needlessly silly monsters.

[PnP Fan]

Party structure. Not necessarily of the Cleric-Wizard-Fighter-Rogue standard part make up type. But the idea that the characters are gathered together for the express purpose of adventuring. As opposed to other games where the characters are gathered for self defense (Vampire, Werewolf, Exalted, for example) or characters are gathered "to do good" (any superhero game out there), or as part of an organization (Spycraft, other military / sci-fi games).

I also think that D&D has a certain reward system in place that is kinda unique. It's so standard that it's become a joke, but when was the last time you saw a superhero/modern hero/ pulp action hero/etc. . . say "I search the bodies" looking for anything other than a clue? But mugging your enemies is a tried and true tradition in D&D, even in games with lofty heroic goals.

Not to say you can't do these things in other systems, but I feel like these are part of the D&D culture.

[Jade_Tarem]

I had always though that at its core, Dungeons and Dragons was you and a bunch of friends in the basement of someone's house, making fun of each other for/while killing orcs. Everything else is window dressing.

- Ryan Sousa, somewhat paraphrased

[Drider]

A pair of animated underwear that eat anything put inside them as soon as a player wears them...randomly assigned to players.

[Stupendous_Man]

hot drow chicks :smallgrin:

[Zocelot]

Roleplaying.

[Chronicled]

What surprises me is the insistence on Magic Missile, but not Fireball.

[Jade_Tarem]

What surprises me is the insistence on Magic Missile, but not Fireball.

Silly Chronicled, no one ever attacked the darkness with fireball.

[Dan_Hemmens]

I'm with PnP Fan, it's the "Party Based Exploration" that I think is essential. A D&D group aren't just a bunch of guys who happen to know each other in a Fantasy Setting, they are an Adventuring Party.

I'd argue that Levels and Classes are part of that: it's about having a simple, obvious way to tell what a PC's job is and how powerful they are.

[chiasaur11]

Silly Chronicled, no one ever attacked the darkness with fireball.

Because while you fireball it, the darkness does not, technically, exist.

[Zeta Kai]

That's a really good question, one that I'm not sure has an adequate answer. D&D means different thing to different people. Some see it a realistic fantasy emulation system; others see it as a storytelling framework. Many view it as nothing more than the punchline to a nerd joke, while a few see it as a means to interact with others like themselves. There seems to be as many ways to play as there are players.

This is a problem with games of all sorts, really, & it comes to light especially when sequels or remakes emerge. What makes for a definitive Legend of Zelda game? What really defines a game of football? When does Monopoly stop being Monopoly? How can you tell if your actually playing "true" Poker? These questions are difficult to determine with anything even remotely resembling consensus.

But none of that philosophical musing is going to here. If you want my opinion as to what makes for a quintessential D&D experience, I'd have to narrow it down to the following (not in any particular order, either):

• a game system that is rather crunch-heavy, focusing on mechanics to drive events in the game, & assuming that everything in the game world can be represented by numerical statistics
• a game system whereby an individual character, controlled by an individual player, advances in power by defeating monsters &/or other characters
• the advancements in power must be broken up into separate levels
• the characters are predominantly humanoid, & exist in a world populated with many different races of humanoids
• a system of magic that is also broken up into separate levels
• the reliance on dice-rolling to settle nearly all actions within the game that have even the slightest chance of luck-based results
• a game world that is violent & hostile to the average person, mostly due to the implied proliferation of predatory creatures that are all but invulnerable to attacks by human beings

I'm sure there are other things that "define" D&D, but those are the ones that stand out to me.

PS: I was ninja'ed 11 times. I gotta type faster.

[Heliomance]

Roleplaying.

I see what you did there.

[RukiTanuki]

Wow, a dozen posts between loading up this post in a tab and hitting Reply. Can't imagine how it'll look when I'm done...

Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters had a good writeup of the things Wizards specifically called out as being central to D&D, but sadly I'm away from my book.

Here's what's important to me* in order to say "this is D&D":
* The overall d20 mechanic. No game system is perfect, but with one I recognize, I can adapt by playing to its strengths and anticipating its weaknesses.
* The use of classes, skills, and feats to advance characters that need progressive advancement, notably PCs.
* The expectation that a group of individuals of disparate but useful talents will work together to achieve more than each could separately.
* A story focused on the actions of heroes in a dangerous world (be it dangerously physically, politically, or otherwise).


(*) Other things are important, but these make D&D what is, not necessarily what make it good.

[Ebonsword]

(1) Rules written by Gary Gygax (or, at the very least, in a Gygaxian style).

(2) Vancian magic

(3) LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, and CE alignments

(4) Percentile strength

(5) Negative armor classes

[we3kings]

(1) The dice based system
(2) The Books
(3) Beholders
(4) mythological creatures

[hamlet]

(1) Rules written by Gary Gygax (or, at the very least, in a Gygaxian style).

(2) Vancian magic

(3) LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, and CE alignments

(4) Percentile strength

(5) Negative armor classes

*hug*

You are correct sir!

[Xyk]

a bunch of friends sitting around playing pretend with overly complex rulesets.

[valadil]

For me it's all about the high magic medieval setting. I don't even need there to be other races beside human. I can cut out the weird monsters too. Hell, I don't even have to set foot in a dungeon. Cutting magic (unless its part of the plot) would make it stop being D&D. Advancing technology would stop it from being D&D - as soon as there's gunpowder I'm done.

[nagora]

Classes which represent archetypal character types from literature.

Vancian spell-casting.

Hit points rather than detailed injury effects.

3-18 ability scores (Str Int Wis Con Dex Cha).

Humanocentric world - humans are the dominant race and there is a reason for that within the rules.

Objective alignments.

Dungeons, and Dragons.

Specialised rules for specific situations (rather than a generic system that tries to cover everything).

Experience levels that define your character's abilities rather than skill levels.

Encounters which kill reckless characters.

A sense of danger and adventure.

Funny dice, including the d12!

I think that's everything I would say makes D&D D&D. Houseruling these things is not bad, it's just makes the game something other than D&D as its designers intended, IMO.

[KoDT69]

(1) Rules written by Gary Gygax (or, at the very least, in a Gygaxian style).

(2) Vancian magic

(3) LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, and CE alignments

(4) Percentile strength

(5) Negative armor classes

What? You think that's Funny? Roll for initiative MONKEY-BOY!!!

I made one up myself too... I don't want your stinking THAC0!

I'm a huge fan of the AD&D 2nd Edition (minus Skills and Powers )

Any game with the funky dice, random silly monsters of every type and combination, and lots of charts and/or formulas to calculate stuff. As long as there is some way to punt a goblin or use a bag of gold coins as a weapon I'm happy.

[Lady Tialait]

Cheetoes, it's not D&D without them.

[Nu]

Killing things and taking their stuff. That is the core of DnD in my opinion.

[Woot Spitum]

3-6 random strangers meet in a tavern and agree to work together towards the goal of killing monsters and taking their stuff.

There should also be snacks.

[Premier]

I find it funny how some people are classifying the original Dungeons and Dragons game as "not essentially D&D":

# Playable Races: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings.
# Playable Classes: Fighters, Clerics, Magic-users, Thieves (or their equivalent names & feel).

The Thief class was not present in the very first D&D book, it was only added later. Also, up to the publication of AD&D 1E (and even in the non-Advanced product line running concurrently with it), race and class were not two separate things. "Elf", "Dwarf" or "Halfling" were classes unto themselves.

a game system that is rather crunch-heavy, focusing on mechanics to drive events in the game, & assuming that everything in the game world can be represented by numerical statistics

Early D&D was anything but crunch-heavy.

* The use of classes, skills, and feats to advance characters that need progressive advancement, notably PCs.

Class, sure, but skills and feats - or rather, similar concepts under different names - only started to appear in the AD&D era.

LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, and CE alignments

That only first appeared in AD&D 1E.




Anyway, here's my list:

- D&D is a game a group of characters with complementary abilities cooperating to achieve a goal.
- All characters are literary, mythological and/or historical archetypes.
- The Dungeon Master is an arbiter, rather than a judge or referee. The ultimate right to settle disputes and make rules-related decisions is vested in his person, rather than in a rulebook.
- D&D encourages houseruling.
- Classes and levels.
- D&D takes it's inspiration from (predominantly) European mythology and history, as well as a number of fantasy genres including but not limited to high fantasy, sword & sorcery, sword & planet, etc.. Any other, significantly different sources of inspiration must take a back-seat in defining the game's sensibilities (with the exception of "gimmicky" settings like Oriental Adventures, etc.).
- Within the limitations described in the first point, D&D caters to a variety of playing styles, including but not limited to dungeoneering (and its subset Megadungeons), wilderness or city adventures, intrigue and politics, etc..


Of course, several of those firmly exclude anything by WotC. Not an accidental oversight. :P

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Order of the Stick. Without it, there is no D&D.

On a more serious note, though...

I think that the dice-based system is core to D&D. You have to have different dice, and plenty of them. Particularly the d20. No d20, it's not D&D. That's also probably the only die that you could get by with if you were to make D&D a one-die system.

You have to have a variety of classes. Not necessarily a variety of races, but a number of classes are a must. On top of that, you have to have roles, which the classes help to fill.

You have to have the team element in there. If you're not adventurers working together, where's the D&D?

And it should have some element of quest.

[JaxGaret]

D&D is a swords and sorcery d20 RPG with an iconic emphasis on, obviously, dragons and dungeons.

That's it.

[Indon]

Ten-foot poles and a use for them.

[Tengu]

The close-mindedness of people who write general RPG stuff here amuses me greatly. Except that by greatly, I mean a bit, and by amuses, I mean annoys. DND is not the only RPG, you know!

And what makes DND for me?

A fantasy setting.
The use of the six stats.
D20 being the main die.
A class system.
A level system.
Magic items.
Classic spells: Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning, Cure X Wounds.
Classic DND monsters.
A fanbase that goes "I don't need other games, I have DND" way too often.