"An all Monk party, Can it be done?" -Characters

[Adumbration]

I just think this would be great to play. I will DM unless someone else wants to... I will not restrict you to core(I want to see some crazy builds) but I have yet to pick a level(Expect 10+).

Good luck.

So I will say that you need two(2) levels of monk for a character to qualify(and the theme must be apropriate, So no monk 2/wizard X that are basicly pure casters)

EDIT: the characters are 16th level.

EDIT2: So for some fluff;
-this is the Greyhawk campaign setting
-at one point or another you all trained at the same monestary(though you may have chosen different things to train in)
-you have been contacted by the monestary regarding a job.

And as for stats use 4d6b3 or 32 point buy.

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On the off chance, would you allow the Tomes Variant of the Monk. It allows more flexibility, but you do lose many of the old monk abilities. I'll keep looking for their srd version.

EDIT: Found it and changed the link

Looks fine.

If we get less than a 32 point buy on the dice can we take the buy?

Yes

would you allow me to somehow take the blindsense feat? maybe by taking blind-fighting, then spending 1 or 2 feats to take blindsense?

Try SandStorm, they have a feat in there that could work. "Scorpion's Sense" you get 10 to 20ft tremorsense depending on the terain(though it only tells you what square they are in, and you still suffer the miss chance)

Thinking unarmed swordsage - I'd like to do that straight through if possible. Is that monk enough for you?

Sorry but you need at least two(2) levels of monk.

I haven't seen this asked, but are you relaxing the multiclass restriction on monks (mainly if a monk raises a level in another class, he can't gain any more monk levels)? Or are we just relying on the Complete Adventurer feats (which are still a great improvement over just freely multiclassing)?

Right; No multiclass restriction.

HP: 1/2+1 (so d4=3, d6=4, d8=5, d10=6, d12=7) with max at first.

Starting gold: 260,000gp

A while ago this happened. I'm fairly excited about it - it promises to be interesting. It is still in the recruitment phase, no firm party yet, but there have been quite interesting characters presented so far - a telekinetic ghost monk, a psionic dwarf, and many more. I figured that we could use a thread to get some outside opinion and advice with them.

Here's my character - any advice would be appreciated. I especially could use help with picking out some good staffs to use, plus two monk-related feats.
A Yak Folk Fist of the Mountain (*cough*forest*cough*)

I'll add other people's sheets to this OP as they come, if they like.

EDIT: List of characters posted here:
A Psionic dwarf - player playswithfire.
A Yak Folk Fist of the Mountain (*cough*forest*cough*) - player Adumbration

[Signmaker]

I'm curious as to where your Yak Folk came from. Looks fun.

[playswithfire]

here is the aforementioned psionic dwarf
(Monk 4/Fighter 1/War Mind 9/Deepwarden 2)
My own assessment

Pros:

• BAB 15
• flurry of blows, unarmed damage and AC bonus of a 13th level monk (Tashalatora); 18th with monk's belt
• Manifester level 13
• 4 psychic warrior powers
  • definite:expansion, inertial armor, claws of the vampire/vampiric blade depending on weapon choice*
  • maybes: body adjustment, energy adaptation
• 3/day boosts to AC, STR and CON for 10 rounds

Cons:

• Skill points mainly exist to satisfy various prerequisites
• Pathetic reflex save as Dex was sacrificed due to the stonewarden ability
• slow, at least relative to other monks; only 30 ft/round

*currently pending decision on whether I can use a 'Scorpion Longsword', basically a long sword that costs an extra 4,000gp and does my unarmed strike damage, just like the Scorpion Kama; have taken the Whirling Steel Strike feat from Eberron to let me use it as a monk weapon. If that's a no go, swap out some feats and pick a new weapon

Criticism and suggestions greatly appreciated

[Ganurath]

I'm not sure how the build would go long-term, but I have a lovely Grapple Monkey build that starts with three Monk levels.

Half Orc
Monk 1: Improved Grapple, Aberrant Blood for Grapple bonus.
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, because it goes with the L3 feat and Deflect Arrows sucks.
Monk 3: Aberrant Reach combined with the heavy Grapple bonuses allows for solid combat control early on. Keep the biggest enemy down so your fellow monks can either smash him without fear of reprisal or so that they can take out the mooks without fear of the Dragon.
Monk 5: Improved Trip. Now you can apply combat control to groups of minions as well as the big bad of the encounter.
Monk 6+: This is where I start to lose track of the build. Any ideas?

[Chronicled]

I'm curious as to where your Yak Folk came from. Looks fun.

MM2, I believe.

[playswithfire]

I'm not sure how the build would go long-term, but I have a lovely Grapple Monkey build that starts with three Monk levels.

Half Orc
Monk 1: Improved Grapple, Aberrant Blood for Grapple bonus.
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, because it goes with the L3 feat and Deflect Arrows sucks.
Monk 3: Aberrant Reach combined with the heavy Grapple bonuses allows for solid combat control early on. Keep the biggest enemy down so your fellow monks can either smash him without fear of reprisal or so that they can take out the mooks without fear of the Dragon.
Monk 5: Improved Trip. Now you can apply combat control to groups of minions as well as the big bad of the encounter.
Monk 6+: This is where I start to lose track of the build. Any ideas?

Head for Justicar so you can improved hog-tie them and leave them helpless?

[Adumbration]

A personal assessment sounds good, I think I'll do one myself. Helps to clarify the character both to yourself and other players. Oh, and the yak folk is from Monster Manual II.

Pros:

• High over-all stats
• High AC
• Capability for healing and magic through Use Staff
• Good saves and HP
• Good unarmed damage
• Large-sized

Cons:

• Flurry of blows sub-optimal. (No greater flurry)
• Irregular class-skills
• +2 LA
• Few methods of overcoming damage reduction.

[Ganurath]

Head for Justicar so you can improved hog-tie them and leave them helpless?

Required Feats: Skill Focus (Gather Information), Track. No thank you. However, you did get me looking at Complete Warrior, and I'm looking between Kensai and Tatooed Monk. Kensai would make a good party face and gets typeless Strength bonuses, while the Tatooed Monk has to have some sort of Grapple Tatoo...

[ZeroNumerous]

Half Orc
Monk 1: Improved Grapple, Aberrant Blood for Grapple bonus.
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, because it goes with the L3 feat and Deflect Arrows sucks.
Monk 3: Aberrant Reach combined with the heavy Grapple bonuses allows for solid combat control early on. Keep the biggest enemy down so your fellow monks can either smash him without fear of reprisal or so that they can take out the mooks without fear of the Dragon.
Monk 5: Improved Trip. Now you can apply combat control to groups of minions as well as the big bad of the encounter.

I believe there was a grappling-focused PrC in C.Warrior.. Lemme double check. Ah, yes. Reaping Mauler. Throw on Clever Wrestling, 5 ranks in Tumble and Escape Artist, a level of a full BAB class and you can take this at 6th. You an even drop improved grapple as your 1st level feat since you get it for free from Reaping Mauler. Ontop of that, Reaping Mauler lets you force Fort saves on creatures(10+Mauler Level+Wis) or fall asleep/die. That'd equal out to Monk 5/Full BAB 1(Barbarian is nice!)/Reaping Mauler 5/X 9.

Required Feats: Skill Focus (Gather Information), Track. No thank you. However, you did get me looking at Complete Warrior, and I'm looking between Kensai and Tatooed Monk. Kensai would make a good party face and gets typeless Strength bonuses, while the Tatooed Monk has to have some sort of Grapple Tatoo...

Justicar is a lie

Kensai is nice, but ultimately pointless. Tattooed Monk only works out for you if you've already got a better PrC and are just filling up levels.

[Ganurath]

I believe there was a grappling-focused PrC in C.Warrior.. Lemme double check. Ah, yes. Reaping Mauler. Throw on Clever Wrestling, 5 ranks in Tumble and Escape Artist, a level of a full BAB class and you can take this at 6th. You an even drop improved grapple as your 1st level feat since you get it for free from Reaping Mauler. Ontop of that, Reaping Mauler lets you force Fort saves on creatures(10+Mauler Level+Wis) or fall asleep/die. That'd equal out to Monk 5/Full BAB 1(Barbarian is nice!)/Reaping Mauler 5/X 9.



Justicar is a lie

Kensai is nice, but ultimately pointless. Tattooed Monk only works out for you if you've already got a better PrC and are just filling up levels.

Hmm... Monk 5 / Barbarian 1 / Reaping Mauler 5 / Fist of the Forst 3 / Frenzied Berserker 6?

[marjan]

Hmm... Monk 5 / Barbarian 1 / Reaping Mauler 5 / Fist of the Forst 3 / Frenzied Berserker 6?

This build will be illegal if you want to keep your monk abilities, unless your DM doesn't mind non-lawful monks.

That aside: Why monk5? Barbarian2 would give you one more point of BaB and thus better grapple.

[ZeroNumerous]

This build will be illegal if you want to keep your monk abilities, unless your DM doesn't mind non-lawful monks.

That aside: Why monk5? Barbarian2 would give you one more point of BaB and thus better grapple.

Ex-Monks

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Research.

Hmm... Monk 5 / Barbarian 1 / Reaping Mauler 5 / Fist of the Forst 3 / Frenzied Berserker 6?

Thats up to you. Your ginormous wisdom bonus should help with making those Frenzied Berserker will saves to not kill your party.

[Chronicled]

This build will be illegal if you want to keep your monk abilities, unless your DM doesn't mind non-lawful monks.

That aside: Why monk5? Barbarian2 would give you one more point of BaB and thus better grapple.

Not to mention the very nice Uncanny Dodge class feature. Or if you'd rather have something else, there's a slew of Barbarian variants out there that let you swap it out for something else (the Wolf Totem one gives you Improved Trip for free).

[Ganurath]

Thats up to you. Your ginormous wisdom bonus should help with making those Frenzied Berserker will saves to not kill your party.

I suppose not killing the party is important... Bear Warrior! Mummy, I want an unnamed +16 to Strength!

[ZeroNumerous]

Not to mention the very nice Uncanny Dodge class feature. Or if you'd rather have something else, there's a slew of Barbarian variants out there that let you swap it out for something else (the Wolf Totem one gives you Improved Trip for free).

Ultimately I assumed he wanted the lessened Flurry penalty, which is an extra attack at FullAB-1. Hence why I didn't change the base 5 levels and just added more.

[Ganurath]

I just had a very interesting thought... At the upper levels, being able to fly isn't too difficult. Grappling someone and dragging them skyward before dropping them seems like a fun way to kill things that can't fly themselves. Are there any PrCs that are built for aerial combat? It goes especially well with Aberrant Reach.

[Chronicled]

Ultimately I assumed he wanted the lessened Flurry penalty, which is an extra attack at FullAB-1. Hence why I didn't change the base 5 levels and just added more.

He's got the same net result by bumping his BAB up 1 and keeping the -2 penalty. And a better standard attack. And more HP from Barbarian, too.

I just had a very interesting thought... At the upper levels, being able to fly isn't too difficult. Grappling someone and dragging them skyward before dropping them seems like a fun way to kill things that can't fly themselves. Are there any PrCs that are built for aerial combat?

Yes, but most of them suck. And/or have casting prerequisites.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I just had a very interesting thought... At the upper levels, being able to fly isn't too difficult. Grappling someone and dragging them skyward before dropping them seems like a fun way to kill things that can't fly themselves. Are there any PrCs that are built for aerial combat? It goes especially well with Aberrant Reach.

Play a Raptoran with Heavyweight Wings and Barbarian levels, and you've got a character.

[Ganurath]

Raptoran, yes. However, rather than Heavyweight Wings, methinks Versatile Unarmed Strike. Make the unarmed strike deal piercing damage to double it with an aerial charge.

...Or pehaps Improved Flight and Improved Bull Rush to grind opponents into the ground before zipping back up out of reach? Would I need perfect manueverability and thus Wings of Flying for that?

[Chronicled]

...Or pehaps Improved Flight and Improved Bull Rush to grind opponents into the ground before zipping back up out of reach? Would I need perfect manueverability and thus Wings of Flying for that?

What you want is Flyby Attack.

[Ganurath]

What you want is Flyby Attack.

Ah, that was a given. I was actually refering to the 180 change in direction that that would require.

Edit: I've reached a decision: Monk 5, Barbarian X, Bear Warrior 10, Barbarian X-5. The concept is rather simple: Turn into a bear, fly in, grab someone stupid enough be within reach of The Great Bear, drag them skyward. Bull Rush them skyward after grappling them to a sufficient height, attack of opportunity as they fall past to Bull Rush them downward again. If you can, aim them so that they'll deal falling and weight damage to one of their allies. Since you'll have +20 Strength from the bear form alone, you can lift your foes and still probably have a light load.

[Benejeseret]

Shifter with a few in monk/Scout-dip/ShifterRanger that heads into Weretouched Master (Tiger) (at least to 3) for the pounce or all 5 for the were-tiger form with Pounce and stat boons. Take lots of shifter feats and perhaps some charge feats and definitely the Feat letting you cross scout/Ranger abilities to max skirmish and favoured enemy. Go with the wildshape variant instead of combat mastery.

Flurry plus 2 claws and a bite - Pounce...with skirmish bonus dice thrown on top.

But you ask...why be a wildshaping ranger if you are a shifter/weretouched?? Because you keep your SU/EX abilities like shifting!!!

Nothing says ouch like turning into a big nasty animal and the SHIFTING further into a were-tiger-other animal-thingy with high stat boosts gaining extra natural attacks and pounce plus flurry of unarmed strikes.

Example - Wildshape to a rhino gaining the gore attack and your flurry of unarmed strikes and then shift to a were-tiger allowing you 2 extra claw attacks and if you started longtooth...a bite attack. Lets you POUNCE all of these as part of your powerful charge ability and grants a further +2 dex/+4 con.

Mechanically it is not huge....but a were-animal-animal is a cool and scary mental picture that has lots of fun attacks.

Stopping at weretouched 3 and going warshaper a bit might be worth it since the polymorph errata on the weretouched does not pay out as well anymore.

[Chronicled]

Ah, that was a given. I was actually refering to the 180 change in direction that that would require.

Edit: I've reached a decision: Monk 5, Barbarian X, Bear Warrior 10, Barbarian X-5. The concept is rather simple: Turn into a bear, fly in, grab someone stupid enough be within reach of The Great Bear, drag them skyward. Bull Rush them skyward after grappling them to a sufficient height, attack of opportunity as they fall past to Bull Rush them downward again. If you can, aim them so that they'll deal falling and weight damage to one of their allies. Since you'll have +20 Strength from the bear form alone, you can lift your foes and still probably have a light load.

How are you flying as a bear?

Is it like this?:

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Like this?:

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Or maybe this?:

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[Ganurath]

Closest to the last one, since the flight enabler would be Wings of Flying, but with longer limbs due to Aberrant Reach. It's too bad there isn't a gorilla varient of Bear Warrior. Then we could call the build Luggage Test.

Another concept: Monk/Rogue/Shadowdancer with Sun School tactical feat. Come out of nowhere with an stunning fist sneak attack by jumping out of your victim's shadow.

[Ascension]

I realize this is suboptimal offensively, but here's Shango of the Thundering Fists, my intelligent-gauntlet-wielding ghost monk/swordsage/shadow sun ninja.

Pros:
-Incorporeal (Pretty much everything that isn't ghost touch has a 50% miss chance)
-Perfect maneuverability flight all the time
-Excellent scout (Great Spot/Listen, ability to pass through solid objects)
-Can fully heal self and party at will with Touch of the Shadow Sun if given enough time
-Between martial maneuvers, monk special abilities, and ghost special attacks, he has a lot of different options in combat.

Cons:
-Low BAB
-Save DCs for martial maneuvers and ghost special attacks could be better.
-He can't be the party face he ought to be with the ghost CHA bonus because he's, well... a ghost. Would you want to negotiate with a ghost?
-Unless he can get it sent to the ethereal plane, he can't purchase new equipment.
-He's turnable.
-Although he does have the ability to heal himself, he can't count on the party cleric for any help, he's destroyed permanently if he rolls 4 or less on his save after being reduced to 0 HP, and even if he makes the save he doesn't reform until 2d4 days later.

Anything you can do to improve this build will be appreciated.

[Capn Stache]

Shi Eila, Shuriken Chucking DPR Cheese Master

Pros:
Up to 8 Shurikens thrown per round.
Each Shuriken has the potential to deal 5d6 dmg every single round.
With one round of study I can ignore Armor and Natural Armor.
Decent AC, can easily move through combat while still attacking and not get hit.
And poison for those particularly tough bastards.
Reflex save and improved evasion.

Cons:
Shurikens = short range, even with far shot.
Awful Fort. save.
Lowish HP.
One target / attack.
Oh yea, and anything immune to Crits...

I think I got everything covered.

And Fluff!

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Shi Eila was infatuated with the shuriken from a young age. She was raised and trained at the Temple of Feng Shui. Here she quickly became the most skilled throwing warrior at the Temple. Once she had enough training to strike out on her own she found the nearest Ninjutsu Dojo and devoted her life to mastering the deadly arts of the shuriken.

Now, after receiving all possible training from the Master Ninjas, she has turned her mind back to the Temple, and finishing the training she abandoned so many years ago...


Side note: Each of her shurikens has been custom made to look like snowflakes she has observed and sketched in the journal she keeps.

[playswithfire]

I'd be interested in suggestions for other psychic warrior powers to use instead of Body Adjustment and Energy Adaptation for tanky monk. Energy Adaptation I like as another protective power, but I'm happy to consider other things. Body Adjustment may be redundant with the vampiric power

[dyslexicfaser]

Sacred Fist is a good bet for a healer/self-buffer monk/cleric. I've been told it's quite a bit stronger than the monk/arcane class.

[Starbuck_II]

I'd be interested in suggestions for other psychic warrior powers to use instead of Body Adjustment and Energy Adaptation for tanky monk. Energy Adaptation I like as another protective power, but I'm happy to consider other things. Body Adjustment may be redundant with the vampiric power

So a 2nd and 4th level power?
Hustle for 2nd level.
But than I notice: you don't have Deep Impact or Psionic Weapon (most Hustle using builds do).
It would let you move and full attack though. So that is nifty.

Weapon of Energy for 4th? It says it stacks wrth a Element weapon like Flaming weapon (or flaming Claw). Another choice freedom of movement.