Breaking the Dread Necromancer

[Deth Muncher]

Okay, maybe the title is misleading. I don't really want to BREAK the Dread Necro, but I need to optimize it as heavily as possible without falling into broken.
Let me explain why I want to do this. In short: I'm pissed at my DM. He's essentially making me kill my good character in order to go over to evil. (We've got two parties, FYI.) I made the mistake of saying the phrase "Well, the only way I'll go evil is if I can retrain my guy as a Necromancer." DM says "OK. Well, retraining is too much of a hassle. Your guy's just going to die and you can make the new guy. G'bye."
So now, I need to make a character so utterly optimized...but in a subtle way. I don't want him to know right off the bat as he sees the sheet that it's broken.

A few preliminary things:
-All 3.5 books are up for use (except the BoEF, because, well...there are just some Power Words that aren't decent)
-We're in a Sandstorm campaign
-EDIT: This is a Level 10 Character
-The stat numbers are as follows (I'll leave it to you'se guys to assign them to their respective stats): 15, 14, 15, 14, 18, 14
-I assume TTS is a given for feats.

Now, before you go "ZOMG TH1Z BELAWNGS 1N TEH CHARBUILD THREADLOL!" I want this to be more than just the building of the guy. I need to know how to play a Dread Necro, and I need random tips about things to do.

Go forth and post.

[Adumbration]

What level are we talking about?

[Deth Muncher]

>_< Wow. That'd be a Natural 4 on my Craft: Post check. We're Level 10.

[Doresain]

instead of going dread necro, just go wizard necro...then as soon as you can turn into a tainted scholar and take up the necropolitan template...you now have a character with nigh infinite spells and save DCs

[Deth Muncher]

instead of going dread necro, just go wizard necro...then as soon as you can turn into a tainted scholar and take up the necropolitan template...you now have a character with nigh infinite spells and save DCs

Unfortunately, I think I'm stuck with this class. Like, I suggested going Sorc Necro, and the DM says "Yeah...how bout you just go Dread Necro?"

[TempusCCK]

Eh, any game where the DM isn't letting you pick your own class is a game that not worth playing.

[Deth Muncher]

Well, to be honest, I kinda suggested it (even by accident), and he said he was going to NPC one for the bad guys anyway (since they're understaffed), and he figures it'd be easier if I just play it instead. Which I agree with, to be honest.

EDIT: Although, I could argue that I want to play a Yak-Folk...

[Doresain]

well if youre stuck with dread necro, pick up corpsecrafter and destruction retribution and animate nothing but cats...use them a mobile grenades

you could still pick up tainted scholar, but i wont be as effective because you dont have the versatility of the wizard...that and i would suggest picking up tainted scholar after you get the charisma bump to undead controlling

and ditch tomb-tainted soul for necropolitan template...id rather have all the benefits of undeath rather than just one...and since youre starting level 10, it shouldnt interfere with your xp

[Maerok]

See if he'll accept Divine Metamagic.

As far as I can see, there isn't any obviously ZOMG broken thing about the DN. Hmm.

Charnel touch like a madman and you've practically got fast healing 1d8+CL/4.

Right now I am a level 6 DN in one campaign (Tiamat just freaking appeared in the sky) and I feel bad about how my Summon Undead creatures (owlbear skeletons!!! :p) are doing a lot of damage against the enemies since I can drop them adjacent to the guy and they can make full attacks. Deadly Chill and Explosive Retribution are also nice...

I'm sure you can cheese the undead somehow; always have a full posse. Deadwalker's Ring + Corpsecrafting + Undead Mastery = +6 hp/HD which is like having Con 22. Rebuke and command any special undead you can. Use Undead Lieutenant for more and more ghoulies.

Animate important NPCs.

---

Dread Necros are like Necro Sorcs, but more sexy. Whether or not you spring for Lichloved...

[Deth Muncher]

and ditch tomb-tainted soul for necropolitan template...id rather have all the benefits of undeath rather than just one...and since youre starting level 10, it shouldnt interfere with your xp

Where is this necropolitan template, exactly? I've been looking, but I can't seem to find it.

[Vortling]

Libris Mortis. Book of the Undead. It costs you a level but you get most of the benefits and drawbacks of being undead.

[Maerok]

Libris Mortis. It's got a weird sort of LA +1, you lose a level and 3000 gp, but you can cath-up again (like a built in buy-off).

And get Spellstitched (it's in CArc, and a MM I can't remember). Then get your familiar spellstitched after you give it the LM Spellstitched Familiar feat. Then cast Vile Death on it.

What familiar are you going with anyway?

[Deth Muncher]

Libris Mortis. It's got a weird sort of LA +1, you lose a level and 3000 gp, but you can cath-up again (like a built in buy-off).

And get Spellstitched (it's in CArc, and a MM I can't remember). Then get your familiar spellstitched after you give it the LM Spellstitched Familiar feat. Then cast Vile Death on it.

What familiar are you going with anyway?

You know, that's a very good question. I was debating on even taking one in the first place. I like the variant in Dungeonscape that lets you lose your familiar, but you get to deflect spells.

On the other hand, I DO like evil familiars. I just have no clue what any of them grants me. I should have more ranks in Search, to be honest, as well as Craft: Internet Post.

And as a Dread Necro, you become a Lich at 20 anyway. Why be undead before that? At 10th level DN, I've already got 25% fortification.

[Maerok]

You'd have to be True Rezzed before level 20 if you go Necropolitan, unless the transformation just works like that. Could go Dragonborn and argue for Dracolich.

Necropolitan just seems to save a lot of hassle. No wasting a feat on TTS.

[mabriss lethe]

While I don't think they actually qualify for DMM, They do qualify for the Devotion feats from Complete Champion. Since your rebuke undead will eventually begin to lose its punch, you could pick up death devotion and deal negative levels with melee hits. DD is in character for a dread necro but some of the other feats might go a long way to filling in some of the deficiencies of having a limited spell list. Animal devotion comes to mind. with one feat, you have access to boosted strength, speed, the ability to fly and a poisonous bite attack. If you start to rely on devotions heavily, invest in extra turning, but otherwise you should have at least 2-3 uses from your feat and that 3+cha mod rebuke attempts.

You can play it off RP-wise rather easily. say that your DN originally hailed from some distant plains tribe or another and that the powers were gifted to you during a rather excruciating rite of passage. maybe you were later expelled from your tribe for dabbling in forbidden magic. not that the spirits seemed to care...

as others have said, Necropolitan is good for preserving your caster level,gaining the benefits of undeath, and should be a feasable solution by 10th level.

I also second Corpsecrafting and destruction retribution. kamikaze zombies are fun. you could go for deadly chill for added fun, but there might be other feats you want instead.

There's no real doubt that the 18 should go into charisma since DNs are pretty much a 1 stat character. since the rest are so close together, it really doesn't matter where you want to stick them. just remember to drop your lowest in con if you're going necropolitan.

A DN that I've had a lot of fun playing, while not terribly optimal, chose the guisarme as his martial weapon proficiency and then took combat expertise, improved trip and combat reflexes. keeps a handful of bodyguards with him, trips an enemy and then has his brute squad pummel them while they're on the ground. It also helps that my DM used the loosest possible interpretation of the sickening grasp reserve feat, but I digress.

A tip: making an undead assistant for each of your party members goes a long way for party unity and as insurance in case one of them betrays you.

[Maerok]

Charisma works out SO well for Dread Necromancers.

Bluff
Disguise
Turning uses
Turning checks
Spell level
Spell DC
Undead Mastery
SLAs
Class abilities

[AmberVael]

They qualify for Divine Metamagic, mabriss. A Dread Necromancer gains the ability to Rebuke undead, which is the only prerequisite you need for Divine Metamagic (that or the ability to Turn undead, obviously).

[Maerok]

DMM was errataed, I thought. But by original RAW...

[arguskos]

I played a Dread Necro once that acquired a Shield Guardian, and had it carry him around while he summoned undead and the like. I pretty much was the general of death's army in that campaign.

As for what feats to take... lessee:

-The entire Corpsecrafter tree from Libris Mortis is worth it.

-The entire Tomb-Tainted Soul tree is pretty decent.

-Fell Drain/Fell Animate is worth a look.

-Necromantic Presence/Necromantic Might are both really pretty good.

Also, I suggest playing a human, so you can access more good undead feats.

Best of Luck! Great class to pick too.

-argus

[AmberVael]

Oh, well yeah, by the errata you do have to have the metamagic feat you want it to work with, but that doesn't prevent a dread necro from getting it.

[Maerok]

I thought that it said it could only be used with divine spells.

[arguskos]

It doesn't actually specify that DMM can be used with divine spells only, at least not in Complete Divine. However, I'm pretty sure under Rules As Intended, it's meant to be divine casters only, which Dread Necro clearly isn't. Most DM's will probably shoot this one down, though, OP, if you can get away with giving your Dread Necro DMM (Fell Animate) or something, that'd be most excellent I bet.

-argus

[AmberVael]

Ah wait, it does specify that it has to be divine spells in the errata. My bad, I'd been looking for prerequisite changes, not that.
Of course, that's errata. I know a lot of DMs who don't look around in the errata. >.>

[Deth Muncher]

I don't suppose the 1 Level Commoner dip to pick up the Chicken Infested Flaw would behoove me much, would it?

EDIT:

Ah wait, it does specify that it has to be divine spells in the errata. My bad, I'd been looking for prerequisite changes, not that.
Of course, that's errata. I know a lot of DMs who don't look around in the errata. >.>

I know mine doesn't. <_<

[mabriss lethe]

I was pretty sure that DNs lost out on DMM, (I remember looking it up sometime in the past)... but I don't have C.Divine and I was having a heck of a time getting any online resources to load. Glad someone else got it sorted out.

As for going chicken infested...it works better with a warlock, since they don't need material components to animate the dead. if you do it with other spellcasters, it can be somewhat time consuming to keep pulling chickens out of your spell component pouch instead of those tasty bits of onyx you need.

[Maerok]

Please elaborate. Chicken Infested?

[AmberVael]

Please elaborate. Chicken Infested?

It is a Flaw that a commoner can take- every time they draw a weapon or retrieve an item there is a chance they draw out a chicken instead.

Chicken Infested
You've got Chickens
Effect: Whenever you draws a weapon or pull an item out of a container, you have a 50% chance of drawing a live chicken instead. No, we don't know where the chickens come from; its your character.

[Maerok]

Is that from d20 Wiki?

[AmberVael]

I... think it was from Dragon Magazine? I can't say for sure.

[Deth Muncher]

Is that from d20 Wiki?

It was from an April Fool's edition of Dragon Magazine, as I recall.


And you know what's great about bad DMs? No material components.