4e Encounter Planning

[Behold_the_Void]

So I'll be running a campaign starting at level 1, and as I understand it a standard encounter for 4 level 1's should add up to 400 exp and not have TOO high-level monsters.

So what's too high? I've been doing some planning and have peppered some level 3 or 4 standards into the encounters, sometimes more than 1, is this going to be too tough for the party to handle?

Also, how much should terrain add circumstances add to the difficulty? Say, for example, the PCs are climbing down a 50-foot drop and some kobolds pop out and attempt to engage them on the wall by scampering down after them and trying to knock them off? What happens if you add some ranged attackers to the mix? How significantly will this increase the difficulty?

[erikun]

Generally, you want the PCs to at least be able to stand and more around. Oh, and if they're standing next to a cliff where the drop could kill them, be a bit careful with what you do. It is far easier to move targets around in 4e than it was in 3e. Heck, you'll likely find your party wizard hugging the cliff face and Thunderwave'ing Kobolds off the cliff.

As for levels, the DMG recommends +/- 4 levels, I believe. For a level 1 party, I wouldn't take it too hard on them: you should be able to make an encounter with just level 1 and level 2 monsters without much trouble.

[Tengu_temp]

Level +1 or level +2 are monsters the players should handle well, just a bit tougher than normal ones. Level +3 is harder, but managable. I wouldn't recommend tougher ones.

Also, bear in mind that experience grows at a slower rate than monster power - Two level 1 monsters give the same amount of experience as one level 5 monster, but are easier to defeat.

[TheOOB]

Anything more then 4 levels off tends to be too easy/too hard for it's experience value, but exceptions can be made, just be sure your group can handle it first.

General terrain and tactics should be assumed in the monsters xp. Melee monsters will occupy bottlenecks, ranged monsters will take cover, or better yet stand above out of reach. As long as the party isn't deficient in some area those types of things should raise xp.

Something like a cliff on the other hand depends. If the area is big and the cliff is mostly scenic, it doesn't add xp, if the area is small and the monsters have push/slide abilities, then it should be stated out as a trap.

As for the example of scaling down a cliff while kobalds are attacking, that is defiantly a trap, the characters have to get down the cliff(athletics checks), and if they are hit they have to make an athletics check or fall the rest of the way. Assuming the monsters have a decent chance of hitting that alone is level 4+ encounter more then likely, thats a huge damage potential, then you have the monsters to fight after that.

[Helgraf]

So I'll be running a campaign starting at level 1, and as I understand it a standard encounter for 4 level 1's should add up to 400 exp and not have TOO high-level monsters.

So what's too high? I've been doing some planning and have peppered some level 3 or 4 standards into the encounters, sometimes more than 1, is this going to be too tough for the party to handle?

Also, how much should terrain add circumstances add to the difficulty? Say, for example, the PCs are climbing down a 50-foot drop and some kobolds pop out and attempt to engage them on the wall by scampering down after them and trying to knock them off? What happens if you add some ranged attackers to the mix? How significantly will this increase the difficulty?

Here's a quick rule of thumb: No higher than 4 levels over - and for soldiers and brutes, probably 2-3 levels over is the best best (they become harder to hit reliably somewhat faster IIRC than other monster role types).

Ranged attackers should be considered _on their own_ as not inherently more challenging. When terrain makes it harder to return fire or to get to them, then they become more challenging.

Fighting while climbing is brutal at low-levels. The penalties if you don't have a natural climb speed will apply to everyone involved though, so it may not be the best choice for the monsters.

[Helgraf]

I've been statting up some encounters - so far I've finished out the details for 2 of them in terms of monsters involved; it'd be more but I added 'optional' monsters for if the putative game they're for will have more than 5 players.

Group 1:

Spoiler

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CORE (Present always)
1 Ogre Skirmisher [L5 Skirmisher] (reduced to Level 5 from Level 8) XP 200
1 Goblin Hexer [L3 Controller (Leader)] XP 150
1 Hobgoblin Archer [L3 Artillery] XP 150
1 Goblin Warrior [L1 Skirmisher] XP 100
Optional A (Use with group size 7+)
1 Goblin Blackblade [L1 Lurker] XP 100
Optional B (Use with group size 7+ - use both with group size 8)
4 Goblin Cutters [L1 Minion] XP 25x4 (100)

Encounter XP: CORE 600. Option A: +100, Option B: +100
XP / Player: 1: 600, 2: 300, 3: 200, 4: 150 5: 120 6: 100 7: 100 (adding 1 option), 8: 100 (adding both options)

The Hobgoblin Archer gives missile synergy to the Ogre's javelins or the Hexer's ranged attacks (or even the Goblin Warrior's javelins).

The Hexer can blind or pin down single targets, or create a zone that gives a -2 attack penalty to the enemy within and concealment to allies within. His Lead from the Rear ability lets him assign missile attacks against him to adjacent allies of his level or lower (everyone but the Ogre qualifies)

The Blackblade & Cutters (for larger groups) provide a melee screen to slow down incoming enemies, allowing the archers more time to do their work. The Ogre will likely throw javelins until he has one left, then use his encounter Hurling Charge to fling the last one _and_ charge in the same action to get into melee with his club.

If the party has resonable AoE (at level 1, this pretty much means a wizard with the right powers), they'll have a much easier time with this battle than otherwise, but the battle should be winnable with reasonable tactics; depending on how the dice fall, some healing resources may need to be expended.

This encounter would be 'standard' difficulty for a group of 6-8 players, and hard for 4-5 (and probably too hard for any fewer).

The second encounter is roughly equivalent in terms of "XP to Level" difficulty, but likely will require more healing afterward as the opponents have more staying power (orcs having, effectively, a single built in healing surge), and a larger percentage of Brutes and Soldiers.

Group 2:

Spoiler

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CORE 750 XP
1 Orc Chieftain [L5 Elite Brute (Leader)] (reduced to L5 from L8) XP 400
1 Orc Raider [L3 Skirmisher]
1 Orc Berserker [L4 Brute]
1 Giant Rat [L1 Minion - chief's 'pet']
Option A (For 7 member party only) +125 XP
Add 1 Orc Berserker-in-Training [L2 Brute] (reduced from L4) 125 XP
Option B (For 8 member party only) +250 XP
Add 1 Orc Berserker-Fighter Template [L2 Elite Soldier] 250 XP

Encounter XP: CORE 750. Option A: +125, Option B: +250
XP / Player: 1: 750, 2: 375, 3: 250, 4: 187.5 5: 150 6: 125 7: 125 (adding option A), 8: 125 (adding option B)

The Chieftain's Inspire Ferocity is particularly dangerous - any orc within 10 squares who goes to 0 HP or less gets to make one last melee basic attack as an immediate reaction before 'dying'. The fact the Chieftain is an elite also means it's going to take a lot of work to burrow through his 156 HP (and one healing surge for 39 more HP once bloodied)

The Raider is pretty straightforward, either chopping away with a greataxe or if missile support is needed, hurling handaxes that ignore concealment & cover if within 5 squares (coincidentally, that's short range for a thrown handaxe)

The Berserker is pure classic orc - get in your face and hack away. The optional Berserk in training is the same thing but less potent.

The Giant Rat rounds out the XP budget for the encounter and allows me to throw in some flavour/humour into the battle. I may have the Chieftain hurl the rat at one of the players as its first 'attack'. Yes, it will die quickly.

For the 8 man team, things get very tough - a second elite in a single battle seriously puts the odds back in favour of the enemy, especially with the extra fighter powers the orc gets from the template.

This encounter is meant to be a capstone encounter - I fully expect dailies and a number of encounters will be burned on this one; and it's fairly likely an extended rest will be required afterward. The focus in this group on Soldiers and Brutes makes the higher level opponents that much more fearsome; run properly, this encounter should put a good chunk of healthy concern into the players heads.

[RTGoodman]

Also, how much should terrain add circumstances add to the difficulty? Say, for example, the PCs are climbing down a 50-foot drop and some kobolds pop out and attempt to engage them on the wall by scampering down after them and trying to knock them off? What happens if you add some ranged attackers to the mix? How significantly will this increase the difficulty?

Well, that's gonna be pretty tough for 1st-level characters, considering falling 50 feet is 5d10 damage (average 28 damage). The standard rule is that a creature/character should get to make a saving throw to avoid falling off a cliff (<10 you fall, 10 or higher you fall prone on the edge), but that's still relatively dangerous. I'd stat that out as a 50-foot deep pit trap (from the DMG) as one of the "monsters" of the normal encounter. (Since traps have levels now, that should work fine.)

For encounter planning, you should really check out the section on designing encounters that's around page... 58 or 60, I think, in the DMG. It's the part that has various design "templates," each of which tells you how many creatures of each level (i.e., party level + 0, PL + 1, PL - 1, etc.) you should use.

[Behold_the_Void]

The intent with the cliff, by the way, is that they're supposed to get to the bottom eventually, so even if they fall they likely will be at least halfway down by the time they start fighting.

And also I need to test how battles while climbing work for the Shadow of the Colossus-inspired encounters that will be a pretty big part of the game. I may hold off on really messing with that until they're a bit higher level though.

[Yakk]

A 50 foot fall is 5d10 damage -- a bucketload to a level 1 character.

If you want to have lots of cliffs and fights near cliffs, you'll have to houserule around it, as 4e by core is not designed for regular "fall to death" mechanics.

As a suggestion: being pushed over the cliff acts as a hazard.

Deadly Fall Hazard
Attack: 5+Level+Squares Pushed into Hazard vs Reflex
Hit:
(1-5) 1d10+squares pushed damage
(6-10) 2d10+squares pushed damage
(11-15) 3d10+2* squares pushed damage
(16-20) 4d10+2* squares pushed damage
(21-25) 5d10+3* squares pushed damage
(26-30) 6d10+3* squares pushed damage
You fall 10' for every d10 damage you take, and then grasp a hand-hold. You are stunned for 1 round. If your fall is cut short by the end of the falling area, you fall no further.
Miss: You are dazed or prone (depending on the situation), but manage to hold on.

...

If there is a "fatal zone" (off the bottom of a flying collosus), if you are pushed that far you only fall that far before grasping on, take the full damage, and lose 1 healing surge for every 10' avoided (or lose 1 action point to avoid losing any healing surges).

...

Note that the above sucks for the pushed being, but it isn't a "I'm sorry, your character is dead" situation. Being stunned and taking that much damage (in addition to the normal damage) will be crippling -- and even on a miss of this roll, you are prone or dazed -- making the push power worth using.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Yakk's got the exact right idea. What's forcing anyone to use the listed damages for falls of X heigth?

HP is an abstract representation anyway; give the fall a damage of 1d10 or 2d10, just because it's not supposed to be more than an inconvenience in the context of the encounter (and/or make it a really special sort of trap for this encounter; trigger: when hit while climbing, +X vs. Reflex/Fortitude, 1d10+4 damage, etc.).

This applies to all falls, all lava damage, etc. etc. The only thing that really matters is the level of danger the element is supposed to present, relative to the PCs' ability.

[Behold_the_Void]

I intend to have plenty of ways to catch yourself on the way down, falling off the 100-foot colossi when you're 20 feet away from the head is frustrating AND painful. But that's another thread altogether.

[FatherMalkav]

I play in a episodel campaign where we rotate DM's ever week or two.

Last night I planned to put my 6 member lvl 2 party against a temple of the Far Realm. The party consists of; a dragonborn paladin of Bahamet, a elven cleric of the Raven Queen, an Elven bow ranger, and elven rogue, a dragonborn warlord, and a human warlock. I like my encounters tough, so I built two 850xp encounters and one 800xp encounter (normal xp for six level 2's is 750).

Half the party didn't show...

That night the cleric, paladin, ranger and warlock managed to take on 2500xp worth on encounters and walk away. Granted the paladin was 2 hp away from -bloodied and one point, but they survived two gricks, a tielfling heritic, two bandits, two carrion crawlers, four skeletons and eight decrepit skeletons without me fudging rolls [about 60% were nat 17+(d20) 3+(d4) and 5+(d6)].

[Yakk]

I assume they did that without taking a long rest?

(Giving more than 1 rest every 4 encounters makes things much easier!)

[FatherMalkav]

Yeah. Actually two of them didn't even get a short rest between the first encounter (Grickx2 + Tiefling Heretic fluffed into doing necrotic instead of fire) and the skeleton swarm (Skeletonx4 + Decrepit Skeletonsx8) due too two of the players looking around the room while the others rested and triggering the trap that released the skeletons.