Ithillid Savant advice needed

[evisiron]

Sucking out brains and gaining knowledge from within. Cool.
But with only one chance to grab the knowledge, it has to be picked carefully.

So, I play a gestalt Rogue/Warlock, and the Savant levels will take over the Rogue slots.
What Skills, Feats, Class Abilities and Special Attacks/Abilities would be good to take over the levels?

[Covered In Bees]

You realize the class is horrifically broken, right? Gaining other things' abilities without limit?

[SadisticFishing]

.. Anything and everything you fight.

That class is basically 100% banned from every game ever.

[Covered In Bees]

That class is basically 100% banned from every game ever.

It really is. I mean, yes, it eats brains, and yes, that's cool, but they did it wrong.

Brains, brains, it's okay,
It's not a matter if it isn't grey;
Brains, brains, I won't lie--
I'll eat their brains 'til they're zombified!

[Vexxation]

It really is. I mean, yes, it eats brains, and yes, that's cool, but they did it wrong.

Brains, brains, it's okay,
It's not a matter if it isn't grey;
Brains, brains, I won't lie--
I'll eat their brains 'til they're zombified!

Sure they might think it's deranged,
But they won't give it a thought
After I've eaten their brains!

But seriously. Yeah. Bro-ken big time.

[Arbitrarity]

Greater, or less than, beholder mage on the broken scale?

[Lochar]

Greater. Because the Savant eats the Beholder Mage's brain and gains it's abilities as well.

[Aquillion]

Seriously. Illithid Savant optimization? If someone actually lets you play Illithid Savant, just eat their brain. It's not like they're using it.

Use Gate to get any brain you want.

Eat a choker's brain and get an extra standard action every round. Forever.

Eat an Aleax's brain and become completely invincible against everyone except one opponent (who you probably don't even care about anyway.)

Find an Abomination with a brain and eat it to get divine rank 0.

Note that stolen skills are not limited by your level, so just go insane. Also, this could be used to get early entrance to other PRCs... except that (aside from how late you have to enter, assuming you don't use early-entrance tricks to count as a mind flayer without the 15 ECL) that would imply that there exist PRCs worth leaving Illithid Savant for, which is silly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. Find another Illithid Savant and eat its brain, expend 1 use of acquiring a class feature to gain 3 uses of acquiring a class feature.
2. Repeat.
3. ???
4. Profit.

[evisiron]

Okay...this sounds like people are reading it the way I read it the first time, in that I can eat as many brains as I want, and the "2 abilities" and such are 2 from each brain instead of 1 from each brain.

However, when we read it again it seems there is a cap. I can get about 4 skills, 3 feats, and 2 abilities, in line with the number of times I get that ability. So I would get an extra 'slot' in a different every level.

Right?

If it is the first one, please, please explain it or link me to an FAQ or anything that clears this up.
My character is getting torn apart in every fight at the moment and this would make a good change of pace.

EDIT: Just to note I am actually LEvel 7, 8 will be the first level in Savant. The campaign has a free +4 LA, so we knocked the psionics and spell resistance from the Mind Flayer stuff to make it fit.

[Aquillion]

Okay...this sounds like people are reading it the way I read it the first time, in that I can eat as many brains as I want, and the "2 abilities" and such are 2 from each brain instead of 1 from each brain.

However, when we read it again it seems there is a cap. I can get about 4 skills, 3 feats, and 2 abilities, in line with the number of times I get that ability. So I would get an extra 'slot' in a different every level.

Right?

If it is the first one, please, please explain it or link me to an FAQ or anything that clears this up.
My character is getting torn apart in every fight and this would make a good change of pace.

It isn't really clear from the way it's worded, but most people assume it's a limit and not the number you can get per brain, just because it would be stupifyingly overpowered otherwise (not that it isn't already, but if it was per-brain you'd get DM smote after a single fight.) Of course, the post above yours notes one way around this.

[evisiron]

So are these reactions about it being overpowered justified?

I mean, class abilities like Evasion are nice in most circumstances, but are not game breaking. And the Special Attacks cannot rely on physical things such as wings, which really limits how useful it is to take stuff.

[Chronos]

I mean, class abilities like Evasion are nice in most circumstances, but are not game breaking.

So you steal something other than Evasion. Like wizard spellcasting. And cleric spellcasting. And druid spellcasting. And psion manifesting, and ToB maneuvers (all of which are a single class feature), and warlock invocations, and soul binding. All in the same character. If there exists anything at all in D&D which is broken, the Illithid Savant is one of them, because it can just steal whatever the other broken thing is.

[Prophaniti]

Hmmm... so what would happen if an Illithid Savant ate Pun-Pun's brain?

*Reality Implodes*

[evisiron]

So you steal something other than Evasion. Like wizard spellcasting. And cleric spellcasting. And druid spellcasting. And psion manifesting, and ToB maneuvers (all of which are a single class feature), and warlock invocations, and soul binding. All in the same character. If there exists anything at all in D&D which is broken, the Illithid Savant is one of them, because it can just steal whatever the other broken thing is.

Well, the spellcasting is only one slot of each level, plus bonuses from stat. And he can only get 3 (I think) over the 10 levels of the p-class.
Plus, the abilities freeze at the level you get them, so you can be stuck with, say, 4th level spells eating up a slot.
Or am I reading the entry wrong?

[Aquillion]

Hmmm... so what would happen if an Illithid Savant ate Pun-Pun's brain?

*Reality Implodes*

Heck, you don't need Pun-Pun. You just have to find a Surrakh, eat its brain, and take Manipulate Form.

(You'll also have to eat the brains of something that can turn into a scaled one, because I don't think Illithids count. But that's not such a problem.)

[Emperor Tippy]

Eat the brain of a phaerimm (Lost Empires of FR). It casts as a sorcerer with a CL equal to your HD but it casts all of its spells known as spell like abilities, meaning no XP or material components. Now you take Wish and go have fun :D

[The_Snark]

Well, the spellcasting is only one slot of each level, plus bonuses from stat. And he can only get 3 (I think) over the 10 levels of the p-class.
Plus, the abilities freeze at the level you get them, so you can be stuck with, say, 4th level spells eating up a slot.
Or am I reading the entry wrong?

No, you're reading it right, and I suppose it's possible to play a balanced illithid savant, but it's really, really hard.

Essentially, it's a class where three (five, really; you can absorb special qualities or attacks twice, which is better, if anything) of the abilities read, "Anything." And there are a few restrictions to it; you have to be able to kill and eat something that has the ability, and it has to have a brain (so no will-o-wisp or golem magic immunity). Still, when your potential class features can run the gamut from:

-Animal companion, evasion, trapfinding; damage reduction 5/silver, frightful presence

to

-Bardic music, divine grace, sorceror spellcasting; quickness (choker), wish 3/day (efreet)

then it's far easier to end up unbalanced than it is balanced. It's not just a couple monsters with unbalanced qualities; there's plenty more, such as a nightmare's astral projection, a nymph's unearthly grace, or regeneration. And these aren't particularly high-level monsters, either; they're all below CR 10.

Essentially, it's a class where you have to work much, much harder to keep it balanced than with anything else. You want to have fun abilities, but you don't want to be way too good.

My advice is to see if your DM will let you modify the class, so that you can steal the abilities and keep them for a limited amount of time; maybe one hour/class level, or possibly longer if the ability wouldn't be useful in that short a time, I don't know. I doubt that would hold up to the character optimization boards trying to break it, but in an actual game, where you don't want to break the game, it should help keep things more balanced—and really, it's more fun to be able to try out new abilities than to pick one or two and be stuck with them forever, I think. It's more true to the idea behind the class, and facing a monster with a powerful ability doesn't make you overpowered forever.

[Aquillion]

What happens if you eat the brain of another Illithid Savant? Can you steal all of its ability-stealing abilities in one category? Can you use this recursion to get unlimited abilities?

[Emperor Tippy]

What happens if you eat the brain of another Illithid Savant? Can you steal all of its ability-stealing abilities in one category? Can you use this recursion to get unlimited abilities?

Yes. You just have to find enough Illithid Savant's.

Step 1: Eat the Brain of a phaerimm. This gets you spellcasting as a sorcerer with a CL equal to your level. This means you get to pick your spells. And you cast these spells as spell like abilities, meaning no XP or material costs. Take Wish and Gate.

Step 2: Gate in whatever monster has the ability you want (an Ithillid Savant in this case). Or use Wish's Transport Travelers clause.

Step 3: Order the gated creature to not resist your eating their brain in any way.

Step 4: Gain whatever abilities you want.