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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Oct 2007
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    Soviet Canuckistan

    Default Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    So, we may be playing a very small party (3 players) and thus there are roles that need to be filled; there's a dread necro/warlock who is under a geas to behave himself (very concept driven, adds some minions to the fray and blasts stuff) and his guardian, a paladin (grey guard at level 6, is playing like a grey guard from the start)/favoured soul who is in charge of him - so we have some melee force and some healing, with a few neat tricks thrown in. That leaves a rogue-type and a general arcanist really, so I'm filling those roles.

    We're using the 8,10,12,14,16,18 spread, I got this weird idea when flipping through books of playing a heavily armoured dwarven rogue/runesmith.

    My thought was: give up sneak attack for fighter feat advancement (Unearthed Arcana variant rogue), qualify for Dread commando (gets to reduce armour penalty by up to 4 at 4th level), take heavy armour optimization, and be able to run around in dwarven plate with no penalty and no arcane failure rate. I'll throw an exotic weapon proficiency at the Greathammer, which he uses for sabotage. He won't be very sneaky at low levels, but the image of a dwarf "rogue" with 18 strength, opening locks with his greathammer is amusing.

    I need 13 Dex to get the dodge/mobility for Dread Commando (which also gets some sudden strike), so I figure that's the 12, with the 4th level attribute boost going into Dex. 18 Str, 12 Dex, 16 (14+2) Con, 16 Int, 8 Wis, 8 (10-2) Cha.

    Rogue side: UA variant rogue with dwarven level substitutions, give up a feat instead of a d6 of sneak attack for the 5th level substitution?), dread commando at 8th (when you hit +5 BAB)

    Wizard side: 1 level of fighter (since you are already using fighter feat progression on the other side, take the UA variant fighter that sacrifices feats for sneak attack progression? Weird...), followed by wizard 1-4, Runesmith 1-2, more wizard while you take dread commando levels.

    So, I'm looking for interesting feats/combat style for the remaining piles of feats. I'm thinking of going with improved sunder (+4 for two handed weapon, +4 for Improved Sunder, +2 for Greathammer, extra damage vs. objects from rapid demolitionist).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    Interesting. Don't forget the variant generic classes acquire various degrees of Sneak Attack with 1 - 3 of their open bonus feats.

    If you are using the Runesmith for No experience Limited Wishes you could do something similar with Arcane Disciple Luck and Archmage High Arcana for No Experience Miracles.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    Thanks, I have no idea what the limited wish thing is, so no, I wasn't planning that. It's really more about the idea of a rogue being more of a covert demolition/sabotage type, but heavily armed+armoured, and filling the caster role in the mean time.

    I found a decent selection of feats I think; I'll likely go with Power Attack, Improved Sunder and Combat Brute to get a style involving weapon smashing, etc. If the DM will allow expanding the list of weapons for the Three Mountains feat from C.War. (currently is used for Heavy Mace, Mornigstar and Greatclub, but sounds like Greathammer is a natural fit) I may try to pick that up as well, allowing me to nauseate foes with multiple hits.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    Sounds awesome. Seems like you're just fine! Those feats are a good/cool fit. Arcane Thesis on Knock or dispell magic might be neat if you're going the metamagic route. I think there's a spell called instant locksmith that lets you open locks as a swift action.

    Where are the dwarven rogue level substitutions located?
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2008-08-08 at 01:48 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    RTGoodman's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    If you're not worried about metamagic feats or anything, there's a Wizard variant somewhere (maybe UA, but I'm not sure) that trades bonus metamagic feats at 5/10/15/20 for Fighter bonus feats. That might help out a bit if you're in need of another melee feat or two.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurd Juris View Post
    Sounds awesome. Seems like you're just fine! Those feats are a good/cool fit. Arcane Thesis on Knock or dispell magic might be neat if you're going the metamagic route. I think there's a spell called instant locksmith that lets you open locks as a swift action.

    Where are the dwarven rogue level substitutions located?
    I had seen instant locksmith, the +2 to opening locks looks good, and knock certainly makes it easier to cut back a bit on Open Locks, since you have something to fall back on.

    I found the dwarven substitution levels listed in the Crystal Keep pdf on base classes, which lists a Dragon magazine as the source - it's a bit imbalanced (like much from Dragon), so we'll probably have to tweak it a bit - I think we'll drop the Evasion entirely, and push the uncanny dodges back a bit.

    Re: feats from wizard side - I may think about that!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    The "Psychic" Rogue variant might be nice for some psionic goodness. Loses 2 SPs, some Sneak Attack and delays progression slightly after L2 but the feats would still swap out.
    Last edited by CASTLEMIKE; 2008-08-09 at 06:15 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    One of my personal favorites is the warlock/rogue route. Good from a damage output route.

    Still, the Cleric/Fighter is a strong route, as is Sorceror/Favored Soul.

    This wizard build is good, though I don't think it'll equal Wizard/Psion for sheer power.

    On the plus side, you'll qualify for Shadowdancer early. Then you can hide in plain sight in full plate, woot.

    That said, DM's may have a problem with that level of substitution. Giving up sneak attack for feats (9d6 sneak attack vs 11 feats, they don't exactly balance), then giving up a feat instead of a sneak attack die? I'm not sure how well that'll work.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt rogue/wizard, feedback?

    Wizard//Beguiler is a scary-good skill monkey/arcanist combo. Who needs Sneak Attack anyway?
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