[3.5] The Perfect Warrior

[Xyk]

I would like the kind of character that is the perfect physical specimen. The kind of guy that has mastered like 8 different styles of martial arts with like 30 different weapons. The kind of guy that has epic Goku-like training standards. He'll go into the woods alone for like 4 years training his combat for 8 hours a day. He can fire a bow like Odysseus that one time at the end of the Odyssey with the axes, frowns upon armor, has the swordsmanship of an olympic class fencer, and every anime swordsman, unarmed fighting of a DBZ character. You get it.

I'm thinking unarmed swordsage merged with some warblade for Iron Heart, or just martial study for important iron heart maneuvers. Levels up to 20 please, anything goes, barring excessive cheese. All books.

[insecure]

Perhaps the Master of nine PrC can be usefull?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Isn't there a build out there that gets all 9 9th level maneuvers? It has MAD, and a lot of feat dependancy, and needs fractional BAB/Saves to not be nerfed, but that might work.

[Kiara LeSabre]

But if you want to shoot a bow like Odysseus too, you need more than just martial adept levels, don't you?

I dunno, maybe swordsage (unarmed variant) 4/cleric 16 with Practiced Spellcaster to bring your caster level back to 20? You only need two levels of swordsage at the start to get your AC bonus, and then you can hold out on the other two until the late game in order to sneak your way up to high-level maneuvers. You can always fluff your spells as "ki powers" or something?

I'm not really very good at this kind of optimization because I always preferred sneaks. Maybe someone else knows ...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A CoDzilla of Zarus would look down his nose at such a character, and then outdo him at everything with only spells and a Monk's Belt.

[Xyk]

The cleric would only look down on him if he wasn't human! He probably will be just for a martial study or something.

[Dresil]

Easy. Human VoP Monk.

[Rei_Jin]

Not knowing my history fabulously well, what kind of trick with a bow is it that you're trying to emulate?

If you're after super distance, then you need a Cragtop Archer
If you're after super damage, then you could consider an Order of the Bow Initiate with Improved Manyshot

I'd be looking at a Monk6/Ranger4/Order of the Bow Initiate, and pick up the feat from the Eberron CS to flurry with a longsword. it's not super optimised, but it has a lot of options as to what it can do, and from what you've said, you're after versatility.

[Eldariel]

Warblade Archer. Eternal Blade, if you don't object to Eternal Blade's flavour (the whole Blade Guide-thing doesn't mesh well with YOU being the big bad guy). More flavourful, but less effective version would be Master of the Nine.

Either way, a martial archer has the ranged prowess needed to be efficient with a bow, while also having an immense variety of potent melee range attacks. You probably won't want weapon-specific feats beyond Ranged Weapon Mastery, but generic feats like Power Attack will come in handy. The character should probably be Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/Unarmed Swordsage X/Master of the Nine 4, maybe with few Fighter-levels tossed around; that way he'll be fearsome without weapons, but with some Base Attack Bonus-trouble. Possibly dip Warblade and Fighter over Martial Rogue. He needs the feats though - Master of the Nine is expensive to enter (Monk gets 3 of the 5 as a bonus in two levels hence the dip).

Ultimately, to make all the combat styles work out, I'd probably go Monk 2/Fighter 4/Unarmed Swordsage 9/Master of the Nine 5 (with Fractional BAB, he gets full Iteratives, so he's covered in that regard). Feats would have to include:
Prerequisites (IUS, Dodge, Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Adaptive Style - no problem, Monk gets 3 first as a bonus, Adaptive Style is a must for Swordsage anyways and Improved Initiative is a solid feat anyways)
Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization/Ranged Weapon Mastery (without these, he'll never do anything with a bow)
Power Attack (this feat alone is sufficient for melee combat)
Superior Unarmed Strike/Improved Natural Attack (if he truly intends on being fearsome unarmed - Monk's Belt would pump this to level 20 Unarmed Damage)
along with possibly Improved Trip and such to signify the different things he can pull off.

and the normal feats. I'm not sure which route would be the best; he'd probably want something like Combat Reflexes/Robilar's Gambit, perhaps the Two-Weapon Fighting tree (Unarmed Strikes secondary isn't such a bad idea anyways), maybe Able Learner, Knowledge Devotion for some true damage output, etc. He'd pick up two 9th level maneuvers on Master of the Nine 5; the key to this guy is the mastery of the weapons and combat styles rather than the disciplines. Time Stands Still and Tornado Throw are probably the 9th level maneuvers of choice flavourwise, although Strike of Righteous Vitality and Mountain Tombstone Strike certainly have their allures too.


As far as stats go, he'd probably be:
Str>Dex>Con>Wis>Int>Cha, with all increments going to Str and opening Dex preferably being reasonably high (he'll be doing his ranged attacks based on it, after all - would cost too many feats to go Dex-focus for all weapons, so Str-focus is pretty much necessary).


I hope you do realize though that while the flavour may be that he's "best at everything", there's no way in heck to make him "best in everything" in mechanical terms - since he's doing so many things, he's not going to be the best at anything. He is proficient with all non-Exotic weapons though, does have full iteratives, is capable of extremely potent attacks with any weapon or the unarmed strikes and has an immense variety of maneuvers available to him.

[Kiara LeSabre]

A CoDzilla of Zarus would look down his nose at such a character, and then outdo him at everything with only spells and a Monk's Belt.

That's our 3.5e: millions of options! ... about five of which aren't gimping yourself in some way.

And that's just the way it is with that system, of course, but I was trying to find a way to do something like the OP wanted, flavor-wise, without completely gimping the character. It might be better to put a true optimizer on the case, though. Honestly, I'm not that good at it.

[Xyk]

Race: Xeph.

The bow trick was shooting an arrow through a few loops on axe-heads I believe. Basically by that I just meant he is equally good at melee and range.

The problem with VoP is the simple weapons clause.

Monk is useless. Swordsage can do everything it can do but better, plus it fits better. So maybe SwSaX/Rgr4/ something else. Order of the bow initiate has too steep requirements. Ranger 4 does provide some archery abilities and a companion on his long training sessions.

[Rei_Jin]

Well, you could always take levels in Duskblade to give you some spells such as True Strike... yanno, because that +20 to hit would go a long way to helping you hit the loops on axeheads or whatever it is you're going for.

And whilst Monk isn't the strongest class out there, 6 levels in it does give you a lot of nice abilities. If you want to be insulting when you're asking for help, then that's fine. Just don't expect to get a lot of help. You asked for a good build, and one that isn't broken. So I provided it.

If you want to be good at everything, play a druid. Just like everyone else does.

If you actually want to build something different, then expect that you're going to have weaknesses.

Most of what you're talking about comes down to feats anyway.

[Eldariel]

Race: Xeph.

The bow trick was shooting an arrow through a few loops on axe-heads I believe. Basically by that I just meant he is equally good at melee and range.

The problem with VoP is the simple weapons clause.

Monk is useless. Swordsage can do everything it can do but better, plus it fits better. So maybe SwSaX/Rgr4/ something else. Order of the bow initiate has too steep requirements. Ranger 4 does provide some archery abilities and a companion on his long training sessions.

I wonder, did you miss my post? 'cause I didn't write it just for the hell of it - Human Monk 2/Swordsage 9/Fighter 4/Master of the Nine 5 is pretty damn well rounded, being able to kick ass in melee and at range, with or without weapons. And he's proficient with everything. Also, he's got quite potent defenses thanks to maneuvers, Evasions and such, and they're quite gear independent to boot (about as good as it's about to get for such a build anyhow).

[Neon Knight]

The prevailing optimization opinion holds that the Order of the bow initiate is a trap, producing subpar results that cannot prevent archery from being irrelevant and obsolete in the late game.

Sneak Attack/Skirmish builds are held to produce damage results closer to Full Attack fighter standards (and beyond in some cases) but with many unfortunate caveats and catches attached. Besides, that would take up too many levels in his build.

Scattered around the net are a handful of Archery disciplines for Tome of Battle characters. Find one of those and taking handful of maneuvers from it might be an easy solution.

I believe Fax_Celestis made one I found quite satisfactory. I'll go link hunting.

[Xyk]

Actually yes, I did. Sorry, I was distracted.

that definitely looks solid.

Monk 2 gives those 2 bonus feats which aid perfectly to master of nine in addition to not losing any unarmed strike progression. (plus evasion)

Swordsage is swordsage, giving maneuvers and still giving unarmed strike. Also improved evasion, and 4 stances.

Fighter 4 gives 3 bonus feats and full BAB. Those bonus feats I notice are immensely useful.

master of nine gives even more useful maneuvers and stances, and useful abilities.

This is a very powerful build.

I'll take it!

The versatility is spectacular. full unarmed progression, ranged mastery and possibly sword and fist style fighting.

I'm sorry I didn't notice you.

[playswithfire]

Can we do it in gestalt?

For fun:
swordsage/warblade IUS,feat,human[twf],flaw[dodge],flaw[adaptive style]
swordsage/warblade
warblade /crusader feat[Superior Unarmed Strike]
warblade /crusader
crusader /swordsage
crusader /swordsage feat
shadowsun/warblade warblade[Improved Initiative]
bloodclaw/crusader
bloodclaw/warblade feat
shadowsun/crusader
bloodclaw/warblade
bloodclaw/swordsage feat[Martial Study(Desert Wind)]
shadowsun/warblade
bloodclaw/warblade warblade[Blind Fight]
masterof9/crusader feat
masterof9/warblade
masterof9/crusader
crusader /swordsage feat
masterof9/swordsage
masterof9/swordsage

15th level unarmed strike damage, BAB 19, base save 11/11/11, 44 maneuvers known, 23 readied including all 9 level 9 maneuvers

[Thurbane]

That's our 3.5e: millions of options! ... about five of which aren't gimping yourself in some way.

And that's just the way it is with that system, of course, but I was trying to find a way to do something like the OP wanted, flavor-wise, without completely gimping the character. It might be better to put a true optimizer on the case, though. Honestly, I'm not that good at it.

Skill Focus: Sniping?

[Griffin131]

Awesomeness

Nice... bookmarked for later fun. Probably as a BBEG or a BBEG's lacky.

[SilentNight]

Don't forget melee weapon mastery for changing on the fly. (+2 to attack and damage with any weapon of a specific damage type like piercing or slashing.)

[Xyk]

So I'm gonna write the build with feats included.

Monk1-IUS(monk),dodge(monk), Imporved Initiative(human), power attack
Monk2-Combat reflexes(monk)
Fighter1-weapon Focus(fighter), Adaptive Style
Fighter2-blind-fight(fighter)
Fighter3-
Fighter4-Weapon Specialization(fighter), TWF
Swordsage1-weapon focus with SS(swordsage)
Swordsage2-
Swordsage3-imp twf
Swordsage4-
Swordsage5-
Swordsage6-superior unarmed strike
Swordsage7-
Swordsage8-
Swordsage9-Improved natural attack
Mo9 1-
Mo9 2-
Mo9 3-Ranged weapon mastery
Mo9 4-
Mo9 5-

The monk actually does not get the right bonus feats at the beginning. So 1 feat was wasted on stunning fist. Perhaps more fighter or swordsage to replace those 2 levels.

[Human Paragon 3]

So I'm gonna write the build with feats included.

Monk1-IUS(monk),Stunning fist(monk), Imporved Initiative(human), dodge
Monk2-Combat reflexes(monk)
Fighter1-weapon Focus(fighter), Adaptive Style
Fighter2-blind-fight(fighter)
Fighter3-
Fighter4-Weapon Specialization(fighter), TWF
Swordsage1-weapon focus with SS(swordsage)
Swordsage2-
Swordsage3-adaptive style
Swordsage4-
Swordsage5-
Swordsage6-superior unarmed strike
Swordsage7-
Swordsage8-
Swordsage9-Improved natural attack
Mo9 1-
Mo9 2-
Mo9 3-Ranged weapon mastery
Mo9 4-
Mo9 5-

The monk actually does not get the right bonus feats at the beginning. So 1 feat was wasted on stunning fist. Perhaps more fighter or swordsage to replace those 2 levels.

There are a host of monk varients on the SRD d20srd.org under variant rules. They're all from unearthed arcana, and present a multitude of fighting styles with special abilities. One is blind fight if i'm not mistaken.

[Xyk]

not blind fight, but thanks for bringing that up, is it broken to change the style to match the right feats as long as I match it with a recognizable martial arts style?

[Darrin]

Isn't there a build out there that gets all 9 9th level maneuvers? It has MAD, and a lot of feat dependancy, and needs fractional BAB/Saves to not be nerfed, but that might work.

There several builds that can get all 9th level maneuvers, but they all have some caveats.

Kirech did it first, although he uses a spell to gain the Martial Study feat. I can't locate the exact build, but it can't ready all nine 9th level maneuvers at the same time.

Gideon_Gideonson's Becoming Reshar uses magic items that grant the basic maneuvers to qualify for the higher level maneuvers. I think there may be some other mechanical problems with the build.

You can also abuse Bloodline levels to inflate your IL up very quickly. It's been mentioned as possible, but I haven't yet seen anyone work out juggling the specific prereqs for all nine disciplines.

My Heaven of Nine build can get all nine 9th level maneuvers, but it requires two flaws and a little fudging on the requirements for Ruby Knight Vindicator (using cleric domains to pick up the Blindfight and Improved Initiative feats for MoN). No MAD or fractional BAB necessary, but feat dependency up the wazoo. Hmm. Allowing feats to be retrained might remove the need for the flaws or the cleric domains, since you don't need to keep the prereqs for a maneuver once you know it.

[Eldariel]

not blind fight, but thanks for bringing that up, is it broken to change the style to match the right feats as long as I match it with a recognizable martial arts style?

No it's not. The book even goes to lengths to specifically mention that you're perfectly within your rights to switch style midway - you pay for that by losing the skill bonus and the 6th level special ability; you aren't gonna get the special ability anyways and the skill bonus is insignificant if not maxing one specific skill. Options would be taking Dodge 1st (Cobra Strike) and Improved Initiative 2nd (Sleeping Tiger), for example.

This is what I referred to when I said Monk can fulfill three of the requirements (Improved Unarmed Strike is also a Monk-bonus, so two levels gets you three feats). Blind-Fight was a level 6 bonus though, my bad on that; I recalled it was level 2 for some. Doesn't matter, ultimately, you'll just pick Improved Initiative as a Monk-feat and Blind-Fight as a general feat.

[Xyk]

Ok, that works, I'll update that build.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you're wanting ranged combat, you may want to consider Bloodstorm Blade instead. Basically, you can throw your melee weapon, grant it the Returning trait for free, basically treat it as both a ranged and a melee weapon, with all the benefits of both.

Then it's a simple matter of Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade. Maybe dip Swordsage to get Master of Nine, if you're into that sort of thing.

A single level dip in Sorcerer would also net you True Strike, which would be the accuracy of ranged attacks you desire.