4e: villains/NPCs stats?

[fireinthedust]

So I'm looking over monster stats: nice and simple, that's good. What's getting me, though, is that there are templates for making a monster move villain-y, like giving them the appearance of having a class or adding a template to them. I'm not sure about NPCs (as there's a sense that they're supposed to just be a skill, a name and description, unless you fight), but I think it's generally the same.
While it's better than a million stat-making hours per monster for one encounter, it has got me thinking:

1) Do the PCs ever actually fight something with the same class as they have (ie: effectively other PCs) or are all foes supposed to only be built for single encounters?

2) Has anyone tried having two PC class characters fight, and if so how did it go?

3) Would a monster with actual class levels need to be whittled down to a racial package (like elves, drow, goblins, gnolls in the MM) before adding class levels, and extra abilities as feats, just like a PC? And does anyone have a formula for doing this for, say, Illithids?

4) What instances are fully-statted villains encouraged? Vs. building them from scratch as monsters (ie: controller, brute, skirmisher vs. wizard, fighter, rogue)? Would this include a rendition of Strahd Von Zarovitch, a Vampire Lord?


5) Also, for vampires, where does it say they burst into flames in sunlight?

[Covered In Bees]

1) Do the PCs ever actually fight something with the same class as they have (ie: effectively other PCs) or are all foes supposed to only be built for single encounters?

This is what the class templates are for.

If you mean just built using the PC classes in the Classes section, then not officially, but you could certainly make an important villain have a PC class. He'd play differently (healing surges vs. HP, daily powers), though, and be a lot more offense-oriented, with less HP.

2) Has anyone tried having two PC class characters fight, and if so how did it go?

"PvP balance" wasn't a concern. I'd imagine that one-on-one, a Striker would win, except at high levels where an Orb wizard would win.

[OneFamiliarFace]

Yeah, if you want to have an NPC with class levels, you can just roll up that class, and smack on some levels. They have stats for a good 15-20 races or so for whom you can do that quite easily.

For races not on that list (or that you can't palette-swap from that list), I'd recommend using the class templates from the manual. It gives the monster the feel of the class without detracting from his natural abilities. He is only ever going to use so many of those in a given fight. If the PCs fight him later, and you want him to have different class abilities, then change em up.

This works because, for the most part, if an ogre is suddenly wearing scale mail and wielding a greatsword, players are probably going to just assume he has class levels. If he then uses one radiant ability, players are going to assume he has paladin class levels. If the same ogre has a pointy hat and a staff, players will make new assumptions.

If you really want a monster with a whole solid class, then I would just look at what abilities seem like racial powers compared to which seem like learned powers. Lop off all the learned powers, keep his old stats, and put some class levels on (giving him the HPs and good saves of the class instead of his monster race). As for how much experience that is worth, that's probably just going to be a guess on your part.

[ArmorArmadillo]

So I'm looking over monster stats: nice and simple, that's good. What's getting me, though, is that there are templates for making a monster move villain-y, like giving them the appearance of having a class or adding a template to them. I'm not sure about NPCs (as there's a sense that they're supposed to just be a skill, a name and description, unless you fight), but I think it's generally the same.
While it's better than a million stat-making hours per monster for one encounter, it has got me thinking:

1) Do the PCs ever actually fight something with the same class as they have (ie: effectively other PCs) or are all foes supposed to only be built for single encounters?

2) Has anyone tried having two PC class characters fight, and if so how did it go?

3) Would a monster with actual class levels need to be whittled down to a racial package (like elves, drow, goblins, gnolls in the MM) before adding class levels, and extra abilities as feats, just like a PC? And does anyone have a formula for doing this for, say, Illithids?

4) What instances are fully-statted villains encouraged? Vs. building them from scratch as monsters (ie: controller, brute, skirmisher vs. wizard, fighter, rogue)? Would this include a rendition of Strahd Von Zarovitch, a Vampire Lord?


5) Also, for vampires, where does it say they burst into flames in sunlight?

To be honest, fully statting NPCs isn't intended at all.

Player's are built to face multiple encounters, whereas a villain would simply spam all it's dailies.

Plus, hp would be extremely low compared to a solo or elite.

In short, a lot of work for nothing.

[tbarrie]

3) Would a monster with actual class levels need to be whittled down to a racial package (like elves, drow, goblins, gnolls in the MM) before adding class levels, and extra abilities as feats, just like a PC? And does anyone have a formula for doing this for, say, Illithids?

Not necessarily. If you want with a full suite of monster abilities and class abilities on top of it, that's what class templates are for; applying one turns the monster into an Elite (or Solo if it was Elite to start). If you want an NPC who's more comparable to a PC, that's what the Racial Traits section at the back of Monster Manual and the NPC design rules in the DMG are for. So if you wanted, say, an Illithid Warlord who wasn't an Elite monster, you'd have to whittle them down as you say. (Which would be tricky to do, I think.)

4) What instances are fully-statted villains encouraged? Vs. building them from scratch as monsters (ie: controller, brute, skirmisher vs. wizard, fighter, rogue)? Would this include a rendition of Strahd Von Zarovitch, a Vampire Lord?

The DMG just says that using the PC creation rules for an NPC should be extremely rare, and used for villains who are going to be around for an entire campaign.

5) Also, for vampires, where does it say they burst into flames in sunlight?

They don't; they just can't regenerate while they're in sunlight. This is more in keeping with traditional vampires (a common theme in 4th Edition fluff changes).