magic weapon creation

[Stycotl]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...ngMagicWeapons

so i wanna create a magical weapon that has a (swift act activation) spell effect three/day. according the srd, that would be found under the use-activated or continuous category, and would look something like this:

Use-activated or continuous Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp

so for a 7th level spell at CL 15, 3/day as a swift act would cost 210,000 gp, just for that ability alone? that doesn't seem right--especially when compared to the rest of the magic items out there that have similar abilities for cheaper. am i missing something? those mitigating factors above did not seem that they applied to me. now, when i add in the rest of the stuff required to make a magic weapon, we are talking ridiculously expensive. which i suppose could be appropriate, but...

plus, if i'm gonna pay that much for it, and a 3/day (swift act) effect is just as expensive (give or take the modifiers below) as a continual effect, maybe i ought to make it usable more than 3/day.

[mabriss lethe]

The pricing guide is a loose set of guidelines that sometimes yield ungainly results. Since all custom magic items need to go through the GM for approval anyway, your best bet is to show him the cost you came up with and show him preexisting items with similar abilities. See if he's willing to bring the price of the custom item in line with the others.

[Stycotl]

yeah. you're right. i suppose if i want it that bad, i ought to be willing to sell the farm to get it. thanks.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Yeah, that isn't right. I don't get how you missed the whole "charges per day" bit, though.

7 x 15 x 2000 gp = 210 000 gp (spell level x caster level x 2000 gp)
210 000 gp / 5 x 3 = 126,000 gp ( / 5 x number of uses per day)

That's probably undervalued, though. Continuous and use-activated effects tend to be, and swift action makes it even more valuable. Depending on the specific spell, it may be that you shouldn't be able to get it this way at all. (If, for instance, it gives bonuses to something.)

[CASTLEMIKE]

DMG prices Greater Shout at 15D6 3/day at 130,000 GP (Effectively CL 15) market so basically 43,334 GP per charge for a Special Purpose Dedicated Power in a Sword.

[LordOkubo]

Yeah, that isn't right. I don't get how you missed the whole "charges per day" bit, though.

7 x 15 x 2000 gp = 210 000 gp (spell level x caster level x 2000 gp)
210 000 gp / 5 x 3 = 126,000 gp ( / 5 x number of uses per day)

That's probably undervalued, though. Continuous and use-activated effects tend to be, and swift action makes it even more valuable. Depending on the specific spell, it may be that you shouldn't be able to get it this way at all. (If, for instance, it gives bonuses to something.)

If for example that Item is a Ring of Continuous Superior Invisibility, it should never exist it any game.

[Tsotha-lanti]

If for example that Item is a Ring of Continuous Superior Invisibility, it should never exist it any game.

What level is that again? If the item cost tops 200,000 gp, it's an epic item and the price gets multiplied some, and then I'm not sure if it's that overpowered. (Can't recall the specifics of superior invisibility.) Continuous greater invisibility is a better example, maybe - it definitely wouldn't be an epic item, but it would be way, way, way too powerful for non-epic characters. For epic characters, it would be nice but not that great; most enemies will see invisible things anyway.

[Telonius]

I would probably use the Rod of Quicken as a model for part of the base price, since that's essentially what you're doing to the spell in question. A Greater Rod of Quicken (7-9th level spells) costs 170k. But since that can be used on any spell a character knows, and there's no limitation on the CL of it, that's considerably more useful (and worth considerably more) than a magic item that uses one particular spell at a particular CL three times per day. Depending on exactly which spell you're talking about, I'd probably put the price at somewhere around 60-75,000 gold extra, on top of the normal cost for a magic weapon.

EDIT: There may also be some rules for things like this in the Magic Item Compendium, but I'm away from my books at the moment.

[LordOkubo]

What level is that again? If the item cost tops 200,000 gp, it's an epic item and the price gets multiplied some, and then I'm not sure if it's that overpowered. (Can't recall the specifics of superior invisibility.) Continuous greater invisibility is a better example, maybe - it definitely wouldn't be an epic item, but it would be way, way, way too powerful for non-epic characters. For epic characters, it would be nice but not that great; most enemies will see invisible things anyway.

Superior Invisibility is an 8th level spell, the level in question.

And yes it is too powerful even for epic. Superior Invisibility is too powerful as it exists for anyone (Hi Incantatrix) to have up all day an still be playing in any game that doesn't go to crazy town right off the bat.

I would probably use the Rod of Quicken as a model for part of the base price, since that's essentially what you're doing to the spell in question. A Greater Rod of Quicken (7-9th level spells) costs 170k. But since that can be used on any spell a character knows, and there's no limitation on the CL of it, that's considerably more useful (and worth considerably more) than a magic item that uses one particular spell at a particular CL three times per day. Depending on exactly which spell you're talking about, I'd probably put the price at somewhere around 60-75,000 gold extra, on top of the normal cost for a magic weapon.

EDIT: There may also be some rules for things like this in the Magic Item Compendium, but I'm away from my books at the moment.

The problem with that is that you then have items of 3 quickened uses a day that cost more then continuous use items.

[Akisa]

What book is superior invisibility from?

[Tsotha-lanti]

Superior Invisibility is an 8th level spell, the level in question.

Actually, the spell level in OP is 7th.

Superior invisibility is in the Spell Compendium, right? Makes you entirely undetectable? Any way to counter it? I'm not convinced any non-epic spell can be overpowered in an epic game. Basically, if it can be countered, it's definitely game for epic; if it can't, it probably is game for epic.

[Telonius]

Superior Invisibility is an 8th level spell, the level in question.

And yes it is too powerful even for epic. Superior Invisibility is too powerful as it exists for anyone (Hi Incantatrix) to have up all day an still be playing in any game that doesn't go to crazy town right off the bat.



The problem with that is that you then have items of 3 quickened uses a day that cost more then continuous use items.

Hm, on the other hand, would this item really be priced according to Use Activated? If it were really use-activated, the spell would be effective every time he uses the sword. Since that's not really what's happening here, it would fall in better with the Command Word rules, which are almost always cheaper than use-activated to begin with (24-hour duration spells are the exception). Then take 3/5 of that price, since there are only 3 charges per day.

The difference there would be that the command word is normally a standard action, but he's looking for a Swift. The SRD doesn't give rules for estimating that value. If we can come up with a gizmo that allows someone to cast as a swift action we can probably reverse engineer that to figure out how much it's worth.

[LordOkubo]

Actually, the spell level in OP is 7th.

Superior invisibility is in the Spell Compendium, right? Makes you entirely undetectable? Any way to counter it? I'm not convinced any non-epic spell can be overpowered in an epic game. Basically, if it can be countered, it's definitely game for epic; if it can't, it probably is game for epic.

It can be countered by True Seeing. That's it. Of course Minblank or high CL Non-detection defeats that. Also Mindsight, and Touchsight.

But when you can literally reduce the number of things that can see you to Psions and creatures with Telepathy that have a very specific feat from a very specific sourcebook you are removing 95% of the game.

[Stycotl]

wow. nice replies. some good info.

how'd i miss the divide by 5 thing? i missed it. pretty simple. that gives me a little breathing room. not a lot, but some...

as i said earlier (or at least i think i said), i am flexible on the method of activation. best scenario woul dbe activation upon successful thrown attack. but i'm flexible...

now, what do you guys think about the 'continuous use' dilemma if i decide that it activates multiple times a day, every time i hit something with it? per charge doesn't seem expensive enough, but it certainly isn't continuous.

[Telonius]

If it does activate every time you hit something, then it's a use-activated item. It would follow the use-activated guidelines. Spell level times caster level times 2k gp. If it has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply that cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply it by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

I don't think there would be any special price from "Swift," since you don't have to take an extra action other than drinking it to activate a potion of Cure Light, or to activate the Shocking Burst property of a sword. (My example from before was assuming that you were doing something like holding up the sword and saying, "cast a spell!" rather than it delivering the spell on contact).

[Stycotl]

If it does activate every time you hit something, then it's a use-activated item. It would follow the use-activated guidelines. Spell level times caster level times 2k gp. If it has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply that cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply it by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

I don't think there would be any special price from "Swift," since you don't have to take an extra action other than drinking it to activate a potion of Cure Light, or to activate the Shocking Burst property of a sword. (My example from before was assuming that you were doing something like holding up the sword and saying, "cast a spell!" rather than it delivering the spell on contact).

ah, i see what you are saying. use-activated makes sense. though the x4, x2, x1/2 etc are only for continual, not use-act items i am pretty sure. it even specifies in the footnote.

well then, it seems a per-hit item might actually be attainable.

[Tsotha-lanti]

It can be countered by True Seeing. That's it. Of course Minblank or high CL Non-detection defeats that. Also Mindsight, and Touchsight.

But when you can literally reduce the number of things that can see you to Psions and creatures with Telepathy that have a very specific feat from a very specific sourcebook you are removing 95% of the game.

What about dispel magic and invisibility purge?

[monty]

What about dispel magic and invisibility purge?

You still have to know they're there.

[LordOkubo]

What about dispel magic and invisibility purge?

Well Dispel Magic has several problems:

1) You need to know where they are to even get them in the area version, you can't target them at all.
2) If you are lucky enough to get them in the area, you only get to dispel one spell, and it probably won't be that one, since they should have an assortment of other long duration buffs as well. (Like Mindblank of the same level, or Shapechange at level 9).
3) No you get to make a CL check against a spell that probably isn't Superior Invis. Since the only people who can Persist it are Evil Incantatrixes, you can bet the optimization of the character is OVER 9000! so he probably has a CL at level 15 of 24-26, so good luck even making the CL check (bonus capped at +20) of DC 37. Roll a 17 or higher? Good luck.

As for Invisibility Purge, it specifically states in the spell description, "the recipient is immune to detection by see invisibility, faerie fire, glitterdust, invisibility purge, and dust of appearance."

[Chronos]

What spell are we talking about, here, anyway? It does make a difference: A use-activated sword of True Strike, for instance, is generally regarded as being an epic magic item, despite it only being a first-level spell.

[Stycotl]

it was a homebrewed spell; look for 'shelgarn's paired trauma' either at the beginning of the thread, or in my sig.

the weapon is finished, and up in the homebrew forum under the heading, 'triple threat'. feel free to go give it a critique.

EDIT: ok, here's the link:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...94#post4700194

and thanks for the responses. aaron out.