Bluff to hide (4e)

[stupnick]

if you make a bluff check to hide against your enemy, are you hidden for that round?

someone is argueing with me that because they can see you, since you don't have cover or concealment, your stealth check doesn't matter and therefor you aren't hidden..

the action that spur'd this

bluff check to hide,
minor action for hide in plain sight so i am invisible till i move..


question 2:
now let's say that the above is allowed.. and another enemy comes along, you are still invisible vs them, correct? invis against 1 enemy, invis against them all...

[JackMage666]

You still need to be Hidden to use Hide in Plain Sight, and Bluff doesn't actually allow you to Hide behind nothing. It lets you create a diversion, so you can make a Stealth check behind cover or concealment, but it doesn't create it.

But, yes, once you use Hide in Plain Sight, you're invisible so long as you stay in that square.

[stupnick]

actually with cover or concealment you don't need the bluff check you can just make the stealth check..

with bluff you can make the stealth check w/o the assistance of cover or concealment... else what's the point of taking your standard action to make a bluff check...i am not saying that after your action you are still hidden w/o cover or concealment, all i am saying is according to the book, by making a bluff check you are allowed a stealth check to be considered hidden... which allows rogues to have combat advantage and sneak attack there opponent.

[JackMage666]

No, Bluff allows you to make a Stealth check, which fails if you have nothing to hide behind.

[stupnick]

that is not correct

cited here
Distracted Creature: If a creature is distracted, you
can attempt to hide from that creature even when
you don’t have cover or concealment.

why would it include that...

with a bluff check you are allowed a stealth check against a distracted creature. if you succed you are hidden at that point in time.

[tbarrie]

if you make a bluff check to hide against your enemy, are you hidden for that round?

Yep. From the most recent errata to the PHB:

Bluff [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 183
In the shaded box, replace the text under “Create a Diversion” with the following:
“Once per combat encounter, you can create a diversion to hide. As a
standard action, make a Bluff check opposed by the passive Insight check of
any enemy that can see you. If you succeed, make a Stealth check opposed
by the passive Perception check of any enemy present. If the Stealth check
succeeds against an enemy, you are hidden from that enemy until the end of
your turn or until you attack.”

actually with cover or concealment you don't need the bluff check you can just make the stealth check..

Nope. Same source:

Stealth [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 188
Replace all text after the first paragraph with the following:
Stealth: At the end of a move action.
...
✦ Becoming Hidden: You can make a Stealth check against an enemy only if
you have superior cover or total concealment against the enemy or if you’re
outside the enemy’s line of sight...

You only need cover or concealment to maintain hiding, but it takes superior cover or total concealment to become hidden n the first place.

[Tyger]

that is not correct

cited here
Distracted Creature: If a creature is distracted, you
can attempt to hide from that creature even when
you don’t have cover or concealment.

why would it include that...

with a bluff check you are allowed a stealth check against a distracted creature. if you succed you are hidden at that point in time.

The part you are quoting is specifically talking about out of combat tactics, which may or may not be relevant to your point. I.e. if the guard is distracted, you may be able to stealth by him/her without cover or concealment. If you are currently fighting the guard, no such luck.

[stupnick]

Yep. From the most recent errata to the PHB:

Bluff [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 183
In the shaded box, replace the text under “Create a Diversion” with the following:
“Once per combat encounter, you can create a diversion to hide. As a
standard action, make a Bluff check opposed by the passive Insight check of
any enemy that can see you. If you succeed, make a Stealth check opposed
by the passive Perception check of any enemy present. If the Stealth check
succeeds against an enemy, you are hidden from that enemy until the end of
your turn or until you attack.”



Nope. Same source:

Stealth [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 188
Replace all text after the first paragraph with the following:
Stealth: At the end of a move action.
...
✦ Becoming Hidden: You can make a Stealth check against an enemy only if
you have superior cover or total concealment against the enemy or if you’re
outside the enemy’s line of sight...

You only need cover or concealment to maintain hiding, but it takes superior cover or total concealment to become hidden n the first place.

so going by what you post

you can use a standard action to make a bluff check as opposed by passive insights.

then you make your stealth check (doesn't matter if you have cover b/c the bluff check overrides that)

then for your action, since you are hidden now b/c of the bluff check and stealth check as said in the bluff check. you can then use Hide in Plain Sight to turn yourself invisible.