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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default How does Power Attack work?

    I'm a bit iffy on how Power Attack works and stacks in this situation. Let's say I have Favored enemy (Evil) and the Favored Power Attack feat and I have Supreme Power Attack from taking all levels of Frenzied Berserker.

    Assume that I have 20 BAB, 34 Strength, a +5 Greatsaxe, and no other source of damage from equipment.

    If I charge <rolls randomly> oh say...the Aspect of Asmodeus (FC2 version) using Leap Attack and Power Attack for max (let's also say I shock trooper or whatever, but that's not relevant to the damage), what damage would I do? I am not sure exactly how it all stacks.
    Last edited by Frosty; 2008-08-14 at 05:29 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Do you also have Favored Power Attack?

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Yes, I forgot to add that
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    IIRC Supreme Power Attack doubles your damage bonus from Power Attack, so this is simple math.

    1d12 (Greataxe) +12 (Strength) +40 (Supreme Power Attack) +5 (enhancement bonus) +2 (Favored Enemy)

    If your favored enemy bonus is greater than +2, adjust accordingly.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Frenzied Barb multiplies your PA, AFAIK all other PA increases add 100% of the base 1:1 ratio. So add up all your 100%s and then multiply by two.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    That'd be fine if it was *just* Supreme Power Attack I'm wondering. But here it's Supreme Power Attack + Favored Power Attack + Leap Attack
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    Frenzied Barb multiplies your PA, AFAIK all other PA increases add 100% of the base 1:1 ratio. So add up all your 100%s and then multiply by two.
    No, Leap Attack doubles your base PA as well. 2-handed Leap attack Power Attack is 4:1, not 3:1. And is there an errata on FB I should know about?
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    No, Leap Attack doubles your base PA as well. 2-handed Leap attack Power Attack is 4:1, not 3:1. And is there an errata on FB I should know about?
    "you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack."

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    That'd be fine if it was *just* Supreme Power Attack I'm wondering. But here it's Supreme Power Attack + Favored Power Attack + Leap Attack
    Well:
    Two-Handed: +100%
    Leap Attack: +100%
    Favored Power Attack: +100%

    You have 400% ratio. (4 Damage:1 AB)

    Supreme doubles it.

    So you get a +8 damage for each -1.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-08-14 at 05:34 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    The errata for Leap Attack is widely-regarded as meaning that Leap attack 2-handed = 4x damage.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Actually, yes there's an errata. It's changed to +100% modifier like Leap Attack. They could either stack like:

    2:1 (normal)
    4:1 (Leap Attack)
    8:1 (Supreme Power Attack)

    or

    2:1 (normal)
    4:1 (Leap Attack)
    6:1 (Supreme Power Attack)


    depending on whether the +100% is applied to your base modifier or your total modifier. Favored Power Attack isn't erratad as far as I know, so the complete would be:


    3:1 (Favored Power Attack)
    6:1 (Leap Attack)
    12:1 (Supreme Power Attack)

    or

    3:1 (Favored Power Attack)
    6:1 (Leap Attack)
    9:1 (Supreme Power Attack)

    or

    3:1 (Favored Power Attack)
    5:1 (Leap Attack)
    7:1 (Supreme Power Attack)


    those are the only stackings that make any kind of sense. The rest would be up to your DM, I suppose - the errata isn't quite particular (the question is what's considered "normal") on whether the +100% is applied before set modifiers or after them and whether it applies on your total Power Attack or your Base Power Attack.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-08-14 at 05:37 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Damn Errata. Always tripping me up.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    Damn Errata. Always tripping me up.
    Now you see why I'm confused?
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    3:1 > 5:1 > 7:1 is the most likely answer, since the easiest reading of "normal" is what you've got before modifiers.
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Google says the 12:1 variant is rather popular for theorycraft, but as a player I'd take the 7:1 just to not make my DM cry and then plot to make everything incorporeal and ranged with huge amounts of DR for my type of weapon.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-08-14 at 05:50 PM.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Ok, how would it work if instead of Leap Attack and Greataxe, you now do Supreme + Favored Power Attack while chaging on a horse with a lance (2-handed) and you have the Spirited Charge feat?
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Spirited charge says triple damage which I take to mean after alll other calculations are done.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    So...5:1 multiplied by 3 = 15:1?
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    basically yeah. If normal damage with powerattack would be xdy+z then with spirited charge you'd get 3xdy+3z

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    *backs slowly away from the thread before running away screaming*
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Spirited charge says triple damage which I take to mean after alll other calculations are done.
    Multiplication in D&D does not work that way.

    Whenever you're doing calculations like this, each multiplier only works off of the base. You never multiply one multiplier times another. So if Spirited Charge with a lance gives you a x3, and whatever other Power Attack boosters you have are giving you x5, then you end up doing x7.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Multiplication in D&D does not work that way.

    Whenever you're doing calculations like this, each multiplier only works off of the base. You never multiply one multiplier times another. So if Spirited Charge with a lance gives you a x3, and whatever other Power Attack boosters you have are giving you x5, then you end up doing x7.
    The difference is that spirited charge isn't multiplying the power attack damage, it's multiplying the overall damage.

    [edit]: Basically I'd say that using spirited charge with a lance would be equivalent to scoring a critical hit with a x3 crit weapon.
    Last edited by fractic; 2008-08-14 at 06:55 PM.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by fractic View Post
    The difference is that spirited charge isn't multiplying the power attack damage, it's multiplying the overall damage.
    Yep. It multiplies your total, final basic weapon damage, excepting only extra dice (like sneak attack, damage from flaming, or the like).

    Edit: Like I said in the other thread, this is why Cavaliers are a bit mental. If your mount can survive the breath weapon blast (Special Mount and evasion kthxplz), you can one-shot a dragon. (Making you almost as good as a spellcaster in that special situation - mounted charge with huge PA.)
    Last edited by Tsotha-lanti; 2008-08-14 at 07:30 PM.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    FB's Supreme PA and Favored Power Attack are both worded similarly, so I'd assume they'd follow normal D&D stacking rules. Supreme PA is 4:1, Favored PA is 3:1 so you'd get 4 + (3-1) = 6:1. Leap Attack increases PA by 100%, and would then give you the commonly cited 12:1.

    Also, things like crits and charging multipliers are added last, after all the applicable damage is added up. So a crit with a great axe would yeild 36:1 return on PA, plus 3 times strength, base, and other applicable damage. Thats 720 damage just from PA, which is almost enough to smoke the Tarrasque before the damage dice hit the table. Silly? Yes, most definitely.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    *sigh* Except you missed the Frenzied Berserker-errata (and the lack of errata for Favored Power Attack). Again.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-08-15 at 09:11 AM.
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    *sigh* Except you missed the Frenzied Berserker-errata (and the lack of errata for Favored Power Attack). Again.
    So how would you add in Spirited charge?
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    There're only so many ways you CAN add it. I'd go with the "full damage gets multiplied"-part, although I could see reasoning for adding D&Dish multipliers to the PA damage (making it FAR less powerful; 7:1*3 is "just" 9:1).
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    So 21x damage?
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    The Power Attack is always part of the "whole weapon damage, minus extra dice" unit. Which is Spirited Charge and critical hits multiply. (Although those two stack, don't they? So a critical hit with a lance on a Spirited Charge is x5, not x9.)

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    Crits and spirited charge stack but this is of course subject to the normal multiplication rules. Lances are x3 crit so on a crit with a lance using spirited charge you would do 5 times normal damage.

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    Default Re: How does Power Attack work?

    My Interpretation:

    Two-Handed Weapon = +100% (in other words x2)
    Favored Power Attack = +100% (In other words x2, x3 when you already include the bonus from using a two-handed weapon)

    If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat.
    Leap Attack = +100% of normal damage (In other words x2)

    Supreme Power Attack: A 10th-level frenzied berserker deals +100% the normal damage from her use of the Power Attack feat. In other words, when using the Power Attack feat, a frenzied berserker wielding a two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on damage rolls (instead of a +2 bonus) for each –1 penalty she applies to her attack rolls.
    Supreme Power Attack = +100% of normal damage (In other words x2)

    Looking at this from this perspective, you first add up the "normal power attack damage", then Apply Leap attack and Supreme Power attack.
    Two-Handed Weapon + Favored Power Attack = +200% or x3
    Leap Attack + Supreme Power attack = +200% or x3 The above (They should add, not multiply, since they both only apply to the normal Power Attack damage only)

    So...
    3:1 (Favored/Two-handed weapon)
    6:1 (Leap Attack)
    9:1 (Supreme Power Attack)

    When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
    Spirited Charge = x3 Overall

    So assume you deal 1d8+25, And Power Attack for 20, and Spirited Charge.
    20*9 = 180
    1d8+205 before Spirited Charge
    3d8+615 after Spirited Charge (Average damage of 628.5)

    Crit = x3
    +200% + 200% = +400% = x5
    5d8+1025 (Average damage of 1047.5)
    Last edited by Gralamin; 2008-08-15 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Minor typing error
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