Fisticuffs: Beating their heads in 3.5

[shadow_archmagi]

So, in a conversation with Demons_Eye, it seems that there are a lot of ways to make unarmed combat feasible. According to the monk handbook monks are actually decent at unarmed, assuming they take very few levels of monk and prestige/multiclass ASAP.

A psychic warrior can spend two feats (monastic training and tashalator) to get unarmed damage and flurry of blows as if he was a monk.

An artificer can take the feats and build himself a monk's belt with stat-enhancers...

a swordsage is, well, obvious.

Are there any other ways to get a decent fist-fighter? Remember kids: The sooner a build becomes workable, the better the build!

[Glyphic]

A particular first level vestige from Tome of Magic will give you Monk unarmed damage equal to your Effective binder level. I suppose you could use it to model an unarmed fighter who's haunted by devils.. But the vestige who grants the unarmed damage stinks also.. (When you start pairing it with the vestige that grants improved grapple and constrict though...)

[SurlySeraph]

Anything with natural weapons is, obviously, good at fighting unarmed.
The Soul Eater PrC (BoVD) lets your natural weapons inflict negative levels, and can be obscenely powerful.
Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike (Draconomicon) increase how many times you can hit with said natural weapons. If you're curious about how this can be used for cheese, look up the "King of Smack" build.
Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB) is always nice.

[Krrth]

If you can, try to find the 3.0 Oriental Adventures book. It has all kinds of feats for monks, plus a few PrC's that can be kinda cool.

[Occasional Sage]

If you can, try to find the 3.0 Oriental Adventures book. It has all kinds of feats for monks, plus a few PrC's that can be kinda cool.

They're all over the place around my area. There's a used book store near my work that has three or four copies on the shelf under $20.

Mmmm, tattooed monks.

Although the d10 version was much better.

[Krrth]

They're all over the place around my area. There's a used book store near my work that has three or four copies on the shelf under $20.

Mmmm, tattooed monks.

Although the d10 version was much better.

Yep. I'm also a fan of Defensive Throw, and the various other feats designed specifically for HtH. I actually have a monk that I have fun running, using that book. Of course, that monk variant has full BaB, but hey.

[arguskos]

(Fans of Soul Eater beware...)

The Soul Eater PrC (BoVD) lets your natural weapons inflict negative levels, and can be obscenely powerful.

Saw this and had to interject something: Soul Eater is, IMO, among the most brokenly INSANE PrC's ever printed. Though you are correct that it's a great class, it's also terribly written and poorly designed (RAW, your hugs inflict neg. levels, etc). On a more helpful note, you also need to be a living non-humanoid (thought monstrous humanoids are fine) to qualify, along with being evil, and some other stuff. If your DM is ok with Soul Eater... gods help him.

/rant

On topic, for an arcane twist to monks, Enlightened Fist in Complete Arcane was interesting (not amazing, but fun enough).

-argus

[Guyr Adamantine]

Anything with natural weapons is, obviously, good at fighting unarmed.
The Soul Eater PrC (BoVD) lets your natural weapons inflict negative levels, and can be obscenely powerful.

This one doesn't work: As the Negative Level inducing special attack given by the Soul Eater has no listed action to use it, it require a standard action.

Its effectiveness is somewhat doubtful.

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike (Draconomicon) increase how many times you can hit with said natural weapons. If you're curious about how this can be used for cheese, look up the "King of Smack" build.
Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB) is always nice.

It requires a pair of natural weapons. "Unarmed Strike" being only one weapon (An abstraction, really), it does not work.

Note that the king of Smack, IIRC, is a Psychic Warrior using Claws of the Beast.

[Eldariel]

Any combatant with Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike is actually a decent Unarmed Combatant. Eventually they'll reach 2d6 Unarmed Damage, which isn't Monk-level, but still good. It tends to be wasteful to spend two feats on it though so I'd be more like to just dip Monk/Unarmed Swordsage for the IUS and pick SUS as a class feat.

[Hal]

Are you counting grapple as an unarmed fighting maneuver? The PrC Reaping Mauler (CW) seems like it would work well for this; you have moves that allow you to put the opponent to sleep or kill it if you can maintain a pin.

[Mushroom Ninja]

A particular first level vestige from Tome of Magic will give you Monk unarmed damage equal to your Effective binder level. I suppose you could use it to model an unarmed fighter who's haunted by devils.. But the vestige who grants the unarmed damage stinks also.. (When you start pairing it with the vestige that grants improved grapple and constrict though...)

That's a kind of cool character concept.

[dman11235]

Are you counting grapple as an unarmed fighting maneuver? The PrC Reaping Mauler (CW) seems like it would work well for this; you have moves that allow you to put the opponent to sleep or kill it if you can maintain a pin.

Kill it! Reaping Mauler makes you worse at grappling. Read my guide for more info on how exactly this happens.

My favorite unarmed combatants: trippers. I loves me some battle field control. Yeah, I weighted my guide a little bit in that direction, but it's hard to avoid.

Also, the typical Sacred Fist and Enlightened Fist can have many, many different flavors about them. Mainly because you can get near full wizard or cleric spell casting and you can do just about anything with that.

You got your psionisists. You got your martial adepts (any martial adept thanks to SUS and/or the Monk's Belt). You got your rogues (which can take advantage of that fast movement speed). Speaking of speed, I'm currently working on a way to "fix" Spring Attack by using it with a monk and Earth Fist. The high speed of a monk combined with the 2-hand unarmed strike here might just pull it off. It'll be close though.

Monks that can heal are also fun, if only as a nod to the Healer. Single level of Shadow Sun Ninja for ya. Note that the build I gave in my guide can be improved by lowering the unarmed damage by 14d8 and upping the BAB and getting other special abilities, like Warhulk, or more psionics, or spell casting, or something other than Initiate of Draconic Mysteries.

On Soul Eater: it can be broken and abused. It can also be very weak. It's hard to find that middle ground. And it's poorly written. I find a lot of the things in that book are.

[Behold_the_Void]

If you're interested in homebrew, I made the Mountain Crusher (linked in my sig) specifically to allow concepts like that (although the class also works as an armed, armored fighter, you can basically do what you want with it).

[Curmudgeon]

I like to get my pummeling damage from other sources, like sneak attack. A Fanged Ring and a Monk's Belt combine to give you 2d6 base damage, which is decent. Add in Snap Kick for more attacks. For the rest, concentrate on increasing sneak attack, both in opportunities (Greater Invisiblity is good for this) and in the damage dealt (Craven is excellent).

[dman11235]

Ascetic Rogue+monk+FotF. Try something like monk 2/FotF 3/rogue 15. That gets you 6d8 base at level 20 (with Monk's Belt), which gets increased with size boosts, like a Fanged Ring, or better yet, Greater Mighty Whallop. You can UMD yourself a CL 20 wand of it (or just get a party arcanist to cast it). Works for small characters as well, to get 16d8 base damage with no increase in your size. Along with the near full SA progression (missing out on 2-3d6, depending on interpretation of Ascetic Rogue), and con+wis+dex to AC. Can even get dex to damage with a 2 level dip into Swordsage, along with +2d6 SA and Shadow Blade (Assassin's Stance).

[Ganurath]

Orc Monk
L1: Abberation Blood (Flexible Limbs), Improved Grapple
L2: Combat Reflexes
L3: Abberant Reach
L6: Improved Trip, Stand Still

Between triplock against groups and grappling lone foes, this little set says "Nobody Move." Alongside a Rogue, and you can have a party. The kind with cake and balloons, not XP and treasure. Still need casters for that.