Reincarnation problem - Dragon type

[only1doug]

sadly my Dragonborn Kobold got killed last night, not a real disaster as i had only just levelled up the session before. the druid has all the oils for re-incarnate but then we hit the problem...

Reincarnate brings back the creature as another of the same type rolled at random from the table, for creatures of other than humanoid type the GM should produce a equivalent table.
Dragonwrought feat removes the humanoid type from a Kobold and changes its creature type to dragon.

Can anybody suggest some equivalent creatures of dragon type that aren't vastly overpowered. (reincarnate brings you back as a young adult...)
the only other dragon types i've seen are half-dragons which are slightly overpowered.

thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[SoD]

Half-dragons aren't hugely over-powered. One possibility would be to roll on the normal table, then add a random half-dragon, draconic, or dragonborn template, taking off levels from your character to counter LA if need be. Not a brilliant option, and I know you won't really like loosing levels, but it's one option.

Oh, see if you can play a pseudo-dragon!

[Tempest Fennac]

What are Psudo-Dragons like? I suppose you could retrain the Dragonwrought feat if you don't get Kobold when you roll if you're using the standard table.

[SoD]

Pseudo-dragon: MM1. Two HD or so, and a bit of LA. They're little not-actually-dragons. Playful little critters, with a sting with a poison similar to drow knockout poison inside.

[only1doug]

the trouble is we need some creatures that ARE of the dragon type. thats the specifics of the spell, and so far the only candidate that doesn't have a Level adjust of at least +3 is a dragonwrought-Kobold (which is what i was before)

[JackMage666]

Well, you're probably going to have to go RAI instead of RAW here... Draconic template, or Dragonblooded Subtype is going to be the easiest way you're going to be able to be reincarnated.

[Dhavaer]

the trouble is we need some creatures that ARE of the dragon type. thats the specifics of the spell, and so far the only candidate that doesn't have a Level adjust of at least +3 is a dragonwrought-Kobold (which is what i was before)

Pseudodragons are of the dragon type, they just aren't 'true' dragons.

[celestialkin]

Look at Dragon issue #320 (for Metallic Dragons):
http://paizo.com/dragon/products/dow...&source=search

And look at Dragon issue #332 (for Chromatic Dragons):
http://paizo.com/dragon/products/iss.../v5748btpy7y9v

If you have ever read the WotC book Savage Species, or the (now) retired Wizards.com Savage Progression articles (see below) using it's rules you will know what this is and how it works.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/retired
(Click Savage Progressions)


Basically, this method called Racial Progression classes lets you play races with high LAs and/or Racial HD starting at level 1, by breaking up all their abilities, natural armor, HD, etc into levels. This means you would start off as a Wyrmling at Lv.1, and work your way up to whatever you could reach at Lv.20 (or more at epic).

You could just roll % in the following manner:

1%-20%
-Metallic Dragon
(Roll % again)
-Brass (1%-20%)
-Bronze (21%-40%)
-Copper (41%-60%)
-Gold (61%-80%)
-Silver (81%-100%)


21%-40%
-PseudoDragon

-41%-60%
-Half-Dragon
(Roll % again)
-% = Red
-% = Blue
-% = Gold
-% = etc (look at Races of the Dragon and/or Dragon Magic for other Half-Dragons such as Gem or Deep Half-Dragons)

61%-80%
-Dragonborn

81%-100%
Chromatic Dragon
(Roll % again)
-Black (1%-20%)
-Blue (21%-40%)
-Green (41%-60%)
-Red (61%-80%)
-White (81%-100%)


This is basically how I made my homebrewed reincarnation tables. I have one with every playable (and near playable) race/creature from every book I own, and I have a few more (like a dragon one pretty much like the above one I just slapped together) for special cases.

You could have it work as he either replaces any number of previous levels (best idea would be 1 level to get him into his new form) in exchange for his first level of being a true dragon, or like I did with a player you can make it mandatory that his next level gained be in his new race (I gave him the level ahead, though, but not the XP).


Edit:

Oh! and in the Savage Progression articles I linked to you above thee is a Racial Progression for Half-Dragons. This broke them up into three or so levels I beleive.

....edit again....

Here is the Half-Dragon:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a

[only1doug]

<snip> This means you would start off as a Wyrmling at Lv.1, and work your way up to whatever you could reach at Lv.20 (or more at epic).
<snip>

hmm, interesting Post, i'll discuss it with my GM

Sadly starting with Wyrmling may not work as the re-incarnate spell specifies young adult.

I'll talk to the GM and we'll see.

[celestialkin]

hmm, interesting Post, i'll discuss it with my GM

Sadly starting with Wyrmling may not work as the re-incarnate spell specifies young adult.

I'll talk to the GM and we'll see.

Well, in that case the DM can simply have the player switch out as many levels as needed until the dragon color rolled would reach Young Adult age.

Also, if a Half-Dragon or Pseudodragon is rolled that would not be an issue I imagine.


I am glad you liked my post/idea. I hope I was able to help.

[Lochar]

hmm, interesting Post, i'll discuss it with my GM

Sadly starting with Wyrmling may not work as the re-incarnate spell specifies young adult.

I'll talk to the GM and we'll see.

Compare the age categories of the dragonwrought kobold (Young adult in normal kobold, versus what it would be in the 9 age categories). That'll at least give you a little more detail to work with.

[celestialkin]

Compare the age categories of the dragonwrought kobold (Young adult in normal kobold, versus what it would be in the 9 age categories). That'll at least give you a little more detail to work with.

Thank you for the idea!

I will now add my beloved little kobolds into my dragon reincarnation table.

[jcsw]

Remember to put Dragonwrought Kobold on the Table again...

[RTGoodman]

I assume you have Races of the Dragon laying around, so I'd suggest using the various low-LA races in there and elsewhere instead of risking being forced into a race with high RHD and LA. Since even the normal table is skewed toward you becoming Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfing, or other common race, you can probably use Kobold, Dragonwrought Kobold, Dragonborn, and Spellscale for the majority of the chart but in higher positions add in Half-Dragon Kobold, Pseudo-Dragon, and true Dragon (for the 99-00 results). Look through some MMs and such to see if there are any other humanoid-esque dragons (like MoF's Dragonkin, the Dragonlance Draconians, and stuff like that).

[only1doug]

well, the GM has the info, he's going to make up some tables, the druid will roll on sunday and i'll see what i win...

I'll let you know

[celestialkin]

well, the GM has the info, he's going to make up some tables, the druid will roll on sunday and i'll see what i win...

I'll let you know

Thanks for keeping us updated. I had been wondering what ended up happening.

Oh, and did you want me to add the kobold to the table in my above post? If so, my bad. In the end it is only a matter of adding what you want in, and evening out the %.

[Mewtarthio]

Sadly starting with Wyrmling may not work as the re-incarnate spell specifies young adult.

Just say that true dragons are a special exception. Make up some mumbo-jumbo about how true dragons have powers intrisically linked to their aging process and therefore must start out as wyrmlings.

[Another_Poet]

Also, you could include Lizardfolk on the random table to make it more likely you get a humanoidish form rather than a level-adjusted dragon form.

ap

[only1doug]

i think from my GMs feedback he's going to skip the Dragon type essential and give me a chance on anything dragon related that he can dig up + draconic subtypes of normal critters.

(at one point he told me he was gonna make a table with 0-50 kobold, 51-100 kobold but i think he changed his mind)

(meh, i'd love a draconic Bugbear.... Hello stat increases)

[only1doug]

Sundays session was cancelled so i still need to wait another week...

...The trouble is i've been generating a spell-sword type as a backup and it's starting to look like i'll just play the backup.

[only1doug]

Okay so another sunday has come and gone:

The Dragonwrought kobold decided to stay in the dragon heavens and my new Gish has joined the party instead.

I'll post basic details of my Gish in a new thread for your entertainment

dull party dynamics stuff in spoiler

Spoiler

Show

(yes gish are always inherently less powerful, but i need to play less powerful builds as i'm already the powergamer of the group)

(the groups druid's animal companion is a arctic fox, small creature, never used in combat... for a dru 9 /warshaper 3 thats fairly gimp)

its a large group so if everyone turns up we have 2 other arcane casters sorcerer10/spellthief2 and a wizard7/stupid race*4 (*triceretops saurial) and 2 divine casters, the druid/warshaper above and a aasimiir cleric7/warpriest3.
Melee wise we have a ftr/pal/stonelord, a tiefling rogue/swashbuckler and a warforged ftr/scout (i think, not sure of details of warforged)

[CASTLEMIKE]

the trouble is we need some creatures that ARE of the dragon type. thats the specifics of the spell, and so far the only candidate that doesn't have a Level adjust of at least +3 is a dragonwrought-Kobold (which is what i was before)

Kobolds are Humanoids. A Human, Elf, Gnome, Dwarf, Half-Orc, Half-Elf can be reincarnated as a Kobold so no reason the Reincarnate spell does not work like normal. (Perhaps your DM will let you take the +1 LA Draconic template or Other and come back as a Dragonborn.

Interestingly from the spell:

A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed.

Technically Big Cheese it could still be Dragonwrought. A Sorcerer who had undergone the Rituals would retain the benefits. Epic feats would be retained.