Dual Classed Characters

[Kosall]

Howdy all, I have a several questions about Dual Classing. I've recently been asked to play in a 2nd ed. Ravenloft Campaign and when designing my character realized that I had some pretty good ability scores from method IV (roll 3d6 12 times and take the best 6). I had 2 17's and a 15 so If I wanted to I could play a thief to 5 level and then dual class to magicuser.

The questions I have are as follows:

For Proficiencies, do I gain the initial allotment when I switch to playing 1st level magicuser?

Can I take a kit as thief? If so, do I count as abandoning it when I give up my life of thievery? Do I get it back when I go back to having my thief abilities back?

Can I take a kit when I become a mage? I know I can Dual Class to a specialist type as long as I have the stats for it but are kits the same way?

I know I can only be one kit at a time so I'd like to take a mage kit but I can't take it as a thief.

And is there any advice you'd like to impart about this setup at all?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Howdy all, I have a several questions about Dual Classing. I've recently been asked to play in a 2nd ed. Ravenloft Campaign and when designing my character realized that I had some pretty good ability scores from method IV (roll 3d6 12 times and take the best 6). I had 2 17's and a 15 so If I wanted to I could play a thief to 5 level and then dual class to magicuser.

The questions I have are as follows:

For Proficiencies, do I gain the initial allotment when I switch to playing 1st level magicuser?

Can I take a kit as thief? If so, do I count as abandoning it when I give up my life of thievery? Do I get it back when I go back to having my thief abilities back?

Can I take a kit when I become a mage? I know I can Dual Class to a specialist type as long as I have the stats for it but are kits the same way?

I know I can only be one kit at a time so I'd like to take a mage kit but I can't take it as a thief.

And is there any advice you'd like to impart about this setup at all?

yes you keep your kit. and you always have your thief abilitys its if you use them you don't gain any exp.

yes you can dual class into a kit. (although kits in general are optional so ask your gm)

if you play that you can only have one kit per character not one kit per class then you will have to abandon your thief kit when you take the mage kit. Thief/illusionists rock...

and yes you gain the inital proficiencys for when you dual class... its nice..

you realy want to play a human? i meen dual classing is nice but. multiclassing is ten times better especialy because you can play a demi human and get there taste abilitys.

[Kosall]

Does it say any of that in the rules anywhere? I'd really like to at least try out a dual class character considering that I've never been able to pull one off before and it's more than adequate for what I want to do during the campaign.

[Matthew]

Does it say any of that in the rules anywhere? I'd really like to at least try out a dual class character considering that I've never been able to pull one off before and it's more than adequate for what I want to do during the campaign.

You are going to have to lay this out for your game master and get him to rule one way or another. The kit rules were not entirely stable; for a long while you could not have a kit if you were a multi class character, but that changed with the introduction of the various race books.

However, here is the ruling for dual classing with regard to the Complete Fighter's Handbook (the first to introduce kits).

Warrior Kits and Dual-Class Characters

If a character starts off as a warrior, he may take any of the Warrior Kits above. If, later, he decides to change classes according to the normal Dual-Class Benefits and Restrictions rules, he doesn’t lose any of the benefits or hindrances of the Kit he chose; he is still that sort of fighter. If that second character class also has a range of Kits available to it, he may not choose a new, additional Kit.

If a character starts off as some other character class, does not take on a Kit appropriate to that class, and then later switches to one of the warrior classes, he can choose a Warrior Kit at that time... though the DM may insist that certain campaign events be accomplished in order to allow him to do this.

For instance, let’s say that a human mage decides, later in life, to become a Fighter, and he wants to be a Gladiator. Well, there’s nothing wrong with that. But the DM should insist that the next several adventures deal with that transformation. The character must be hired by (or, alternatively, captured and enslaved by) an arena or fighting-stable owner, trained, and pitted against other Gladiators. The other characters in the campaign could also be entering the gladiatorial arena, or the DM could contrive things so that the current adventure involves gladiatorial elements and still get all the PCs involved.

To better simulate the wait involved for the character to learn his new trade, the DM is within his rights to insist that the character not receive his Warrior Kit until he’s reached second experience level in his new class.

The Complete Thief's Handbook includes almost the exact same text. The Complete Priest's Handbook is differently worded, and allows for multi classing, but specifies only one kit ever (no abandoning a kit to take a new kit after dual classing). The Complete Wizard's Handbook neglects to include such text; however, some wizard kits specifically cannot be dual classed, such as the witch kit.

[Kosall]

Ah, that is useful information and I'll abide by the single kit rule as that's the most restrictive.

What about the initial proficiencies? Is there a ruling somewhere that states whether you gain them upon starting over as your shiny new 1st level character?

[Matthew]

The only place I can think of that specifically mentions the impact of dual classing on gaining new proficiencies is Skills & Powers, which explicitly indicates that the normal allocation of proficiencies is gained upon dual classing into a new class. That presumably does not include the bonus proficiencies your character would normally get from his intelligence score.

[RagnaroksChosen]

yep read about dual classing in the playershand book you when you start as if you started at level 1.. so you gaina ll proficnecys as a lvl 1 char would.

[Kosall]

I'll talk to my DM about the proficiencies and my character. We'll see what he says and if that reference to the Skills & Powers book will convince him to rule in favor of the new proficiencies.

Thanks again for all your help.

[hamlet]

yep read about dual classing in the playershand book you when you start as if you started at level 1.. so you gaina ll proficnecys as a lvl 1 char would.

But you do not gain additional proficiencies for high intelligence again. That is a one time bonus at character creation.



You should also note that, until your second class level exceeds your first, your first class's abilities are not available to you without penalty, and those penalties are severe including loss of all XP for that session.

Also remember that you can never go back to being a member of that first class. It has forever been left behind and you cannot advance further in it.

[RagnaroksChosen]

But you do not gain additional proficiencies for high intelligence again. That is a one time bonus at character creation.



You should also note that, until your second class level exceeds your first, your first class's abilities are not available to you without penalty, and those penalties are severe including loss of all XP for that session.

Also remember that you can never go back to being a member of that first class. It has forever been left behind and you cannot advance further in it.

i thought the only penalty was xp?

[hamlet]

i thought the only penalty was xp?

That is correct, but it's a little more severe than simply "you lose XP for today."

He loses all XP from the session, and receives only 50% XP for the entire adventure (which can cover MANY sessions). It's particularly crippling for a player to lose that much.

It is common to houserule this out, but I disagree with doing so.

[RagnaroksChosen]

i thought it was common to house rule the 50% exp for the rest of the adventure?

[hamlet]

i thought it was common to house rule the 50% exp for the rest of the adventure?

Have seen both, but generally has been on the more permissive side (i.e., eliminate XP penalty entirely).

[Chronos]

you realy want to play a human? i meen dual classing is nice but. multiclassing is ten times better especialy because you can play a demi human and get there taste abilitys.

Dual classing is a lousy thing to do, but it's a great thing to have done. If you do it while playing, you completely suck until you get your old class abilities back, since you're basically a first-level character in a party of high levels. On the other hand, if you're making characters at a higher level (typically specified as some number of XP, since different classes level up at different rates), you can typically fit in a few levels of something else before your main class, while still starting at the same level. So you get a smattering of extra abilities almost for free.

[Glimbur]

Dual classing is a lousy thing to do, but it's a great thing to have done. If you do it while playing, you completely suck until you get your old class abilities back, since you're basically a first-level character in a party of high levels. On the other hand, if you're making characters at a higher level (typically specified as some number of XP, since different classes level up at different rates), you can typically fit in a few levels of something else before your main class, while still starting at the same level. So you get a smattering of extra abilities almost for free.

If you want to be even more rude and are only given a set number of XP's for making a character, you can abuse the fact that a Druid's XP count resets after he serves as Great Heirophant, or whatever.