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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Owrtho's Avatar

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    Default Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    This is a type of undead I've had ideas for for a while. And a subsequent class based on it will be posted later.

    Soul Specter

    A rare type of vengefull spirit, the Soul Specter is found almost unstopable by all who lack a light air current to traval against.

    Medium Undead
    Hit Dice: 6d12 (39)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 40' (8 squares) Flying (good)
    Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), 12, 12
    Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+1
    Attack: Claw + 2 touch [Piercing or slashing] (1d6 + 3)
    Full Attack: 2 Claw + 2 touch [Piercing or slashing] (1d6 + 3) or tail +1 melee (1d4 + 1)
    Space/Reach: 5'/5'
    Special Attacks: Claw
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60', Life sight, Life touch, incorpreal, dust build, bound to bones, Vengful motive
    Saves: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +7
    Abilities: Str 16, Dex 14, Con --, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16
    Skills: +10 move silently, +4 listen, +6 intimidate, +2 sense motive
    Feats:Weapon Finesse (Claw), Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (B)
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary or (rarely) groups (2-more)
    Challenge Rating: 6
    Treasure: Low
    Alignment: Any
    Advancement: By class level
    Level Adjustment: +2

    The soul specter is a rare type of vengful spirit. Often they occur when ones will for revenge is so great it lasts years after they die and their bones turn to dust. All soul specters have had their bones turned to dust since they died (or while they were dying). They are however sill bound to them and as such cause the powder to form the shape of the soul specter. In general, they apear to be a skeleton of the creature they were in life with the folowing exceptions:
    • Their teath are always all sharp.
    • They have small horns on their skull.
    • They lack a lower torso though their spine is longer than it should be making a tail.
    • They have black batlike wings growing out of their back about 1.5 times the size of wings that would be to scale for their size.
    • They have an eye in their forehead that while shaped like it is sideways, has a long vertical pupil (this eye cannot close as they lack skin, but if they had skin it would close horizontaly).
    • Their middle fingers are extended into about a 1.5 foot claw (blade) that glows an eerie blue color.
    The soul specters are especialy feared due to the manner in which they deal damage. Unlike most creatures which deal it physicaly, their claws deal it to a creatures life force directly. This makes it much harder to heal and often requires magical means if it is more than a light scratch. Their third eye grants them the ability to see creatures' life force as well. On a more positive side, the fact that their bones are dust (and they are bound to them) makes it quite easy to escape one. Even a light breeze is enough to keep one at bay. This does however make many spells that would normaly repel the undead less effective against them. But those who are hunted by them often come to fear places where there is little to no air current and it is often in such places that their victems meet their demise.

    Abilities

    Life sight: The third eye of a soul specter grants it life sight. This is an ability that causes it to be able to see the life force of creatures things. This force they see is more than just a soul but more equivilant to the internal blueprint that your body follows. Thus if a limb of it is severed, while the physical limb appears unharmed, it will sudenly stop working and start decaying as if dead. Often times healing such a wound requires that the severd life force be present. Such wounds will also follow the one hurt through any forms they take. Lifesight is blocked by inanimate objects thicker than 6 inches and lead. Normal equipment can be seen through.
    [note: magical healing can repair wounds to somethings life force as if it were a mundane wound, but natural healing will atempt to make the physical form match the life force, thus a cut in the arm's life force will, if left, cause the cells in the wounded area to die until it is magicaly healed]

    Life touch: The soul specter has the ability to interact with the life force mentioned above in a unique way. It can for example pick up a severed limb or break someones arm's life force without harming them physicaly (though the later is more dificult as only their claws ignor physical impedimants and effect only life force).

    Dust build: Due to the fact that a soul specter is bound to the dust of their bones, they are highly effected by wind and the like. Spells like gust of wind count them as size fine for distance they are blown (though they take no damage). Objects like fans can be used to keep them from moving towards the holder as long as it is being blown and they are in the line of effect. If they move with the wind, their speed is doubled, this stacks with any other increases to speed.

    Bound to bones: The soul specter is unable to be moved away from their bones. If a spell would teleport or banish their spirit, they return the next round. If an atempt to turn undead would make them move against a sutibly strong aircurrent, they automaticly resist it.

    Vengful Motive: Any attempts to turn a soul specter have a 25% chance of failing. If the person they are hunting is present (to their knowledge), this increases to 75%. If they are reduced to a fatal amount of hp and they have not yet been avenged, they regenerate at full health in 3d3 rounds. If they have been avenged, there id a 50% chance they will regenerate anyways (rerolled each time they are killed).

    Claw: The claws of a soul specter are treaded as if they had ghost touch and use an opponent's touch AC if they have no magical protection (such as mage armor but not barkskin). If they do, armor provided by that is added to their touch AC. Their claws deal damage to a creatures life force directly. Damage delt by them can only be healed by magical means. If they get a critical hit, roll a 1d10. Results are as follows:
    • 1, 2, or 3 - multiply damage by 2
    • 4 - the left arm is severed (note, the life force)
    • 5 - the right arm is severed (note, the life force)
    • 6 - the left leg is severed (note, the life force)
    • 7 - the right leg is severed (note, the life force)
    • 8 - the left wing is severed (note, the life force)
    • 9 - the right wing is severed (note, the life force)
    • 10 - the tail is severed (note, the life force)

    If the creature lacks the specified limb, they take normal damage. Limbs severed this way act as if the creature had its limb severed normaly, but it is still physicaly their as dead weight. If it was a leg, it acts as if they have a fake leg (but it bends making it hard to use). Creatures killed by a soul specter's claws have the wounds follow them into being a spirit. If a ghost has a limb lost to one, it will find itself unable to generat the specific limb no matter how hard it tries.

    Combat
    The soul specter will often try to attack its enemy all out hoping to handycap them befor they can respond. They usualy go after the one they they became a soul specter for (as they're vengful spirits) over all else. If that person (or group) is not present they will attack as normal or try to learn of their target's location (or just ignor the group).

    Well, it's rough, but I'll work on it some more once I get feedback (or can figure out better ways to word things or make mechanics work). Let me know what you think.

    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2008-08-21 at 07:27 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    If you REALLY mean d3's for hitpoints you need to call out this exception in the text...

    Interesting mechanic... CR looks a little high especially with the very low HP and lack of turn resistance, not to mention the special weakness.

    Personally I would just make them count as a Fine creature for purposes of wind effects...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-21 at 12:08 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Thanks for the feedback. I modified their dust build ability as suggested, and gave them turn resistance. The main reason for the CR is that while they can be esily repelled or held off with wind (mind you a wind strong enough to stir up dust is only enough to prevent them from moving in that direction, and strong winds are required to actualy force them away), if they do hit you, they can cause notible damage. Particularly if your heal is away. Moreover a lucky hit and you could sudenly find yourself without the use of your good arm. As for the hp, I forgot to add their ability to regenerate.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    I think he meant that Undead use d12 not d3 to determine hit points. If you are using d3 you really should explain why. 2d12+2 (15 hp) would be normal and your creature has significantly fewer hit points 2d3+2 (5 hp).

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2008-08-21 at 01:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Yes, all creatures of the Undead type use a d12 (my favorite die, FTR). Also, creatures of the Undead type have no Constitution score (that's -- (+0), not 0 (-5)). Therefore, 2d12 would give you an average of 13HP, which is still low for a creature that has a Challenge Rating of 6. Speed is rarely (if ever) given in increments of 5'; if the creature is supposed to be faster than the average PC, then it should have a speed of 40' (8 squares) to be significant. The creature doesn't have enough Hit Die to justify its challenge rating, skill points, or number of feats. An undead with an Intelligence of 14 (+2) & 2HD should have 30 skill points; this thing only has 15. Also, it should have only 1 feat; this thing has 4 (although some of those could be bonus feats). There are possibly (I dare say probably) other errors, but those are the ones that really stand out.

    Overall, I'd see that this thing needs some major polish. Good luck.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Hadn't realized that. I'll increase the hd.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Con should be —.

    If you want this to have more hit points, it should have 2 hit dice 2d12 (13 hp). Undead do not get any bonus hit points from Constitution.

    An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

    Creatures only get feats based on number of Hit Dice. A creature gets one feat for its first HD and then another for 3, 6, 9 etc. This has too many feats. It should have one feat and perhaps one bonus feat which is indicated by (B) after it. I recommend keeping weapon finesse (claw) and losing the other feats. It doesn't need them.

    This is how the attack lines should look. It doesn't have multi-attack as a feat so it's secondary attack is at -5. You add your Str bonus to damage usually. The tail might only get a 1/2 Str bonus depending on how you view it. I am assuming it makes either a claw or a tail attack. If it can use both at the same time, change the "or" to an "and."

    Attack: Claw + 4 melee (1d6+3)
    Full Attack: 2 Claw + 4 melee (1d6+3) or tail -1 melee (1d4+3)

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2008-08-21 at 04:29 PM. Reason: fixed attacks for correct BAB

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Wow, hadn't even seen Zeta Kai's post till just now.

    As for that post and Debihuman's, I've fixed the HD and speed. I'll try to fix the rest once I have a chance. As for the attacks (and to an extent the feats) though, the issue is that it has two claws (one main hand and one off hand). As such I'm somewhat uncertain how to say that.

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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Wow, hadn't even seen Zeta Kai's post till just now.

    As for that post and Debihuman's, I've fixed the HD and speed. I'll try to fix the rest once I have a chance. As for the attacks (and to an extent the feats) though, the issue is that it has two claws (one main hand and one off hand). As such I'm somewhat uncertain how to say that.

    Owrtho
    There isn't a way to do that in the RAW (rules as written). Creatures either get one claw attack or 2 claws but not a main claw and a secondary claw unless for some reason the 2 claws had did different damage attacks.

    BAB is wrong too. BAB is based on HD. An undead with 2 HD has a BAB of +1. Undead advance like wizards BAB = 1/2 HD.

    Attacks are based on this: BAB + Str Modifier + size modifier. Medium creatures have a size modifier of +0.

    I had it wrong. Attack should be Claw + 4 melee and tail should be -1 melee. I've fixed my above entry to reflect this.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2008-08-21 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Well, first it seems I've had a misconception about how HD worked. I'd thought that the number in that section was how much health it gained per level, not that it was the average number of hd for the creature (was acutaly thinking of it having on average 5 or 6 HD with each being 2d3 originaly). As for the attacks, I'd been looking at it more as the claws being treated like if a player chose to duel wield short swords.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Finesse doesn't need to declare a weapon in 3.5, right? One feat fits all small weapons? I think that's right, anyhow. Oh, and, um, its strength is 2 points higher than its dex. Ditch finesse entirely, unless you intend to give it a bow.

    Ditch the two-weapon series and pick up Multiattack instead, since it's all based on natural weapons. claw/claw at full attack and str bonus, tail at -2 and half strength as normal. Skeletons and similar undead get two claws as well, and they take no penalty attacking with their "off" claw.

    Physics reality-check: a creature which can move at 25+ feet per second (160 per round) can withstand the wind of its own passage, therefore it can also withstand a headwind that strong. And the concept of a 5-foot per second tailwind having the same effect as a 25-foot per second? I don't think so, Tim. :)

    I'd reduce its fly speed to 30, rule out its using the Run action (at least upwind, if not entirely), and establish that wind speed is added to its total movement for the round if in the same direction, added or ignored if perpendicular (its preference) and subtracted from its base (minimum 0) if it's a headwind. Otherwise, it can potentially move 160 feet in 6 seconds which amounts to the Strong Winds threshold, more or less (per the Control Winds description).

    Base attack should be 3, not 6 (unless you intend to pop it to 12HD)
    At 6 HD, it should be Fort+2 (base), Ref+4 (2 base, 2 dex) and Will +6 (5 base, 1 wis)

    You need to establish penalties and remediation for limb loss. -2 to attack rolls, ac, skill checks, or whatever, and what remedies (restoration, lesser restoration, regeneration, cure/regenerate light wounds, etc) will remove the status, and under what conditions. Does it cause tissue necrosis if allowed to persist? Does the "life force" repair itself on its own if the creature manages to successfully slay the Specter?

    I'd advise commuting the crits to always be double damage, but on a 4 or higher the limb loss happens as well unless the victim makes a fort saving throw. Nothing worse than having to tell your player "I just rolled a 20 and your arm doesn't work anymore" as opposed to "the claw tears into your vital force and attempts to sever your connection to your own arm. Roll fort, and don't suck this time." If you want it to be a fairly easy DC, make it 10 + half HD + strength (or cha) mod, for DC 16. If you want it variable and punitive, make the save DC equal to 5+critical hit damage (average of 13 for an 18 DC, potentially as low as 13 or as high as 23). :)
    Last edited by fangthane; 2008-08-22 at 02:46 PM.
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Claws aren't treated like swords in the rules. Swords also do melee damage not touch damage.

    If this creature used a shortsword it's attack line would be: shortsword +5 melee (1d6 +3). It's not a touch attack and you don't put in the type of damage it does in the stat block.

    Claw: The claws of a soul specter are treated as if they had ghost touch and use an opponent's touch AC if they have no magical protection (such as mage armor but not barkskin). If they do, armor provided by that is added to their touch AC. Their claws deal damage to a creatures life force directly. Damage delt by them can only be healed by magical means. If they get a critical hit, roll a 1d10. Results are as follows:

    1, 2, or 3 - multiply damage by 2
    4 - the left arm is severed (note, the life force)
    5 - the right arm is severed (note, the life force)
    6 - the left leg is severed (note, the life force)
    7 - the right leg is severed (note, the life force)
    8 - the left wing is severed (note, the life force)
    9 - the right wing is severed (note, the life force)
    10 - the tail is severed (note, the life force)

    If the creature lacks the specified limb, they take normal damage. Limbs severed this way act as if the creature had its limb severed normaly, but it is still physicaly their as dead weight. If it was a leg, it acts as if they have a fake leg (but it bends making it hard to use). Creatures killed by a soul specter's claws have the wounds follow them into being a spirit. If a ghost has a limb lost to one, it will find itself unable to generate the specific limb no matter how hard it tries.
    First this should be listed in the special abilities. Second, you should separate each feature. This is more than one special ability. Last of all, you are probably trying to stack too many special abilities onto this creature without a commensurate number of Hit Dice.

    Let's break it down:

    Ghost touch (sp): The claws of a soul specter can paralyze its victim as long as the victim is not wearing magical armor. Barkskin does not count as magical armor for this purpose. A successful Fort Save (DC 15) negates. It can use this ability 3/day.


    That was fairly easy and straightforward [In this case the DC is 10 + 2 for level of the spell and 3 for the Cha bonus of the creature]. 3/day is fairly standard.

    Next, if they score a critical hit then they can sunder a limb. The claws aren't vorpal and you haven't indicated what happens if the soul specter crits a fighter and then "severs" [which is really a numbing effect not a true severing] the fighter's non-existent tail. I suggest that you simplify this as much as possible.

    Numbing claws (Ex): On a successful critical hit against a creature of up to one size category larger than itself, the soul spector's slash attack numbs one limb (if it has one) from its opponent's body. The limb may be an arm, leg, wing, or tail but not the head. The victim takes an additional 1d6 points of damage and the limb becomes useless weight until magically healed by a heal spell or other magical means. A numbed arm cannot hold weapon, a numbed leg leaves a noticable limp and slows speed by half. A flying creature with a numbed wing cannot fly. A numbed tail prevents it from being used as a weapon.

    Life Sense (Su): A soul specter notices and locates living creatures within 60 feet as if it had the blindsense ability. It also senses the strength of their life force automatically, as if it had cast deathwatch.

    Life sense is a standard supernatural ability (See dread wraith in SRD).

    I also have some issues with these abilities:

    Life sight: The third eye of a soul specter grants it life sight. This is an ability that causes it to be able to see the life force of creatures things. This force they see is more than just a soul but more equivilant to the internal blueprint that your body follows. Thus if a limb of it is severed, while the physical limb appears unharmed, it will sudenly stop working and start decaying as if dead. Often times healing such a wound requires that the severd life force be present. Such wounds will also follow the one hurt through any forms they take. Lifesight is blocked by inanimate objects thicker than 6 inches and lead. Normal equipment can be seen through.
    [note: magical healing can repair wounds to somethings life force as if it were a mundane wound, but natural healing will atempt to make the physical form match the life force, thus a cut in the arm's life force will, if left, cause the cells in the wounded area to die until it is magicaly healed]

    Life touch: The soul specter has the ability to interact with the life force mentioned above in a unique way. It can for example pick up a severed limb or break someones arm's life force without harming them physicaly (though the later is more dificult as only their claws ignor physical impedimants and effect only life force).
    Life sight is a weird form of life sense. I recommend that you stick to life sense.

    Life touch is even worse because a soul spector is incorporeal and cannot interact with corporeal objects. Since a limb affected by the claw as you wrote it isn't really severed but numbed and withered, there is no limb to pick up. Furthermore, the rest of the text "break someones arm's life force without harming them physicaly (though the later is more dificult as only their claws ignor physical impedimants and effect only life force)" is incomprehensible. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    Knowing someone's life force is knowing how healthy or frail a creature is by knowing it's actual number of hit points. You can't break a life force.


    Debby

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Well, while it is incorpreal, it can to an extent interact w/ liveing things physicaly as it is made of its bons dust (though it does just complicat things so I think I'll change that. As for the life touch, that is a different issue. The life force mentioned is not life force in the standard sense refering to hit points, it is more of a custom setting thing in which living things have 3 parts: material portion, soul, & life force. The material & soul are completely seperate, while the life force is linked to each. Almost nothing can directly interact with the life force however and usualy must interact with one of the other two components to affect it. Thus something can damage the soul and the body functions fine, or they can damage the body & the soul functions fine, but if you damage the life force, both body & soul cease to function properly. As for how it looks, it would pretymuch be like an energy overlap of the body. If a piece is cut of, it stops overlapping the body and falls to the ground. It can however (if you can manage to find and manipulate it) be reattached in the manner of a severed limb.
    The souls specter is special in that its claws are able to directly interact with the life force while ignoring the other two aspects of a creature. The rest of it however is of the soul aspect and thust is hindered by the souls. It could however using life touch, pick up a severed arm of life force and heal someone with it, or fix a wound they have in their life force in a mundane method. The reason they are hindered in breaking the life force of someones arm is in seperating it from the soul portion of the person not the material portion (that was an error on my part).

    For the sake of settings not using such a build of creatures, the life force could be changed into the spirit or soul (at the person's preferance).

    As for the claws treated like swords, I looked at it more as being treated as aftificial weapons for the sake of combat (thus using both would be treated as duel wielding the claws and have the penalties applied as with any other weapon being duel wielded), though they would still be counted as natural weapons for enchanments and the like. They do however use the targets touch ac if they have no magical armor (that should probly be stated in the abilities of the claws).

    The Numbing claws (Ex) ability you posted works well for pointing out what happens (atleast when not using the life force described above).
    The Life Sense is abain a good substitute for Life Sight (again when not using the above mentioned life force).

    [I'll edit the first post in a day or 2 when I have more time to look it over]

    Thankyou,
    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2008-08-24 at 01:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    This creature is looking much better.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, while it is incorpreal, it can to an extent interact w/ liveing things physicaly as it is made of its bone dust (though it does just complicat things so I think I'll change that.
    You can't have it both ways unless it can manifest corporeally. In that case, you need to add that feature. [See ghosts and manifestation]

    As for the life touch, that is a different issue. The life force mentioned is not life force in the standard sense refering to hit points, it is more of a custom setting thing in which living things have 3 parts: material portion, soul, & life force.
    This is even more of a problem because you are calling by the SAME name. Either change the name or use the standard lifesense ability. You will just confuse everyone or they will think you are making a mistake.

    The material & soul are completely seperate, while the life force is linked to each. Almost nothing can directly interact with the life force however and usualy must interact with one of the other two components to affect it. Thus something can damage the soul and the body functions fine, or they can damage the body & the soul functions fine, but if you damage the life force, both body & soul cease to function properly. As for how it looks, it would pretymuch be like an energy overlap of the body. If a piece is cut of, it stops overlapping the body and falls to the ground. It can however (if you can manage to find and manipulate it) be reattached in the manner of a severed limb.
    This completely contradicts the nature of outsiders now. If the soul is seperate, then the creature cannot be ressurected. If the soul and body are together, then they can.

    It would be helpful if you would decide how you want to make this creature. While I don't object to your houserules, they aren't standard by any means. This makes it harder to evaluate your monster and makes it even harder to fit into a standard game.

    The souls specter is special in that its claws are able to directly interact with the life force while ignoring the other two aspects of a creature. The rest of it however is of the soul aspect and thust is hindered by the souls. It could however using life touch, pick up a severed arm of life force and heal someone with it, or fix a wound they have in their life force in a mundane method. The reason they are hindered in breaking the life force of someones arm is in seperating it from the soul portion of the person not the material portion (that was an error on my part).
    This is far more complicated than necessary. It make it hard to understand when it is interacting with a life force and when it is attacking. It's even more complicated because you use the word "sever" when dealing with an incorporeal limb rather than a corporeal one. Hitting someone with a life force limb wouldn't do anything unless the someone were also incorporeal.

    Also, hitting someone with a limb would follow the rules for improvised weapons.

    For the sake of settings not using such a build of creatures, the life force could be changed into the spirit or soul (at the person's preferance).
    That would be everyone's campaign except yours. The setting has nothing to do with it.

    As for the claws treated like swords, I looked at it more as being treated as aftificial weapons for the sake of combat (thus using both would be treated as duel wielding the claws and have the penalties applied as with any other weapon being duel wielded), though they would still be counted as natural weapons for enchanments and the like. They do however use the targets touch ac if they have no magical armor (that should probly be stated in the abilities of the claws).
    No such things as "artificial" weapons. There are weapons and natural weapons. Claws are simply natural weapons. You can give them whatever magical enhancements you want but they don't follow the same rules as swords. Creatures aren't "dual'weaponed," they can have 2 attacks naturally. This is why so many monsters have 2 claw attacks or 2 slams. If they have more than one type of natural attack, the secondary attacks are at a penalty unless they have the multi-attack feat. This is why creatures can have 1 hit die and hit you with 2 claws and a bite attack.

    The Numbing claws (Ex) ability you posted works well for pointing out what happens (atleast when not using the life force described above).
    The Life Sense is abain a good substitute for Life Sight (again when not using the above mentioned life force).
    Glad you liked it.

    I look forward to seeing your edits.

    Debby

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    You can't have it both ways unless it can manifest corporeally. In that case, you need to add that feature. [See ghosts and manifestation]
    Well, it's supposed to be more like force damage (I think thats correct), where it doesn't matter if it is corpreal or incorpreal, but deals regular damage regardless.



    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    This is even more of a problem because you are calling by the SAME name. Either change the name or use the standard lifesense ability. You will just confuse everyone or they will think you are making a mistake.
    Actualy I'd not realized that life force was the term for it in dnd, I always called it hit points. I'll figure out something else to call it (when I update the first post).

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    This completely contradicts the nature of outsiders now. If the soul is seperate, then the creature cannot be ressurected. If the soul and body are together, then they can.
    Well, it actualy works the way I ment it (though I might have explained it porly). Think of it like having 3 boards. The first is the body, the second is the life force, and the third is the soul. Now you want something thats two boards long, so you take the body and attach it to the life force so that half overlaps, then you attach the soul on the other end of the life force so again half overlaps. Now the body and soul don't touch at all, but they both touch the life force. Thus if you harm the body enough, it damages the life force as well, but takes extreamly huge things to harm the soul by harming the body (has to be enough to harm the life force enough that some carries over to the soul. an example could be a traumatic event, though that would more likely be simultanious harming of body & soul in large amounts). Anyways, think of the life force more like the glue that indirectly connects the body and soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    It would be helpful if you would decide how you want to make this creature. While I don't object to your houserules, they aren't standard by any means. This makes it harder to evaluate your monster and makes it even harder to fit into a standard game.
    I'll try to add both the house rules version and substitute things for standard rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    This is far more complicated than necessary. It make it hard to understand when it is interacting with a life force and when it is attacking. It's even more complicated because you use the word "sever" when dealing with an incorporeal limb rather than a corporeal one. Hitting someone with a life force limb wouldn't do anything unless the someone were also incorporeal.

    Also, hitting someone with a limb would follow the rules for improvised weapons.
    The sever refered to some thing similar to gutting off a ghosts arm (w/ the side affect of the ghost being unable to regenerate it). Also, I ment more like walking up to someone and breaking their arm, but it would affect their soul as well as their physical ability to function (and the bone would physicaly be intact, that is till they tried to more the oddly paralized arm with enough force that they broke it themselves.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    That would be everyone's campaign except yours. The setting has nothing to do with it.
    Yah, I'll try to also add basic rules for that at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    No such things as "artificial" weapons. There are weapons and natural weapons. Claws are simply natural weapons. You can give them whatever magical enhancements you want but they don't follow the same rules as swords. Creatures aren't "dual'weaponed," they can have 2 attacks naturally. This is why so many monsters have 2 claw attacks or 2 slams. If they have more than one type of natural attack, the secondary attacks are at a penalty unless they have the multi-attack feat. This is why creatures can have 1 hit die and hit you with 2 claws and a bite attack.
    Not sure where, but I recall seing someone call non natural weapons that at somepoint. Anyways, the nature of the claws is supposed to be such that while physicaly attached to the creature, they are more like having a gauntlet with a blade sticking out of it. In general it is suposed to be likean equiped weapon that is automaticly equiped when out (like a soul knife) and can't be unequiped (and it automaticly comes out when you become a soul specter). I call it a claw, cuz visualy thats what it looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Glad you liked it.

    I look forward to seeing your edits.

    Debby
    Gah, I need to do that soon, but I just got to college and haven't had time. I'll *try* to get it done this weekend

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, it's supposed to be more like force damage (I think thats correct), where it doesn't matter if it is corpreal or incorpreal, but deals regular damage regardless.
    Okay. My mistake. I thought this was something else.

    Actualy I'd not realized that life force was the term for it in dnd, I always called it hit points. I'll figure out something else to call it (when I update the first post).
    Life force is more like Hit Dice than actual hit points. This is why you gain negative levels when you lose life force.

    FYI I'm fixing up the following quote for misspellings.

    Well, it actualy works the way I meant it (though I might have explained it poorly).

    Think of it like having 3 boards. The first is the body, the second is the life force, and the third is the soul. You want something that's two boards long; so you take the body and attach it to the life force so that half overlaps, and then you attach the soul on the other end of the life force so again half overlaps. Now the body and soul don't touch at all, but they both touch the life force.

    Thus, if you harm the body enough, it damages the life force as well. However, takes extremley huge things to harm the soul by harming the body (i.e. it has to be enough to harm the life force so that some carries over to the soul). An example could be a traumatic event, though that would more likely be simultaneously harming of body & soul in large amounts.

    Anyways, think of the life force more like the glue that indirectly connects the body and soul.
    Okay, but you never clearly spelled out the mechanic for how damage to one corrolates to damage to the others. How do you "note" a life force?

    If this were a standard energy drain attack it would deal out a negative level (causing the standard losses as follow from the SRD:

    • -1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
    • -1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
    • -5 hit points.
    • -1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).


    If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level
    Going on to your next stuff.

    The sever refered to some thing similar to cutting off a ghost's arm (w/the side affect of the ghost being unable to regenerate it). Also, I meant more like walking up to someone and breaking their arm, but it would affect their soul as well as their physical ability to function (and the bone would physicaly be intact, that is till he or she tried to move the oddly paralyzed arm with enough force that they broke it.)
    Ghost touched weapons can affect incorporeal creature's normally. So the claws could cut off a ghost's arm. But when it affects a corporeal person, it doesn't actually sever the arm, it simply paralyzes it. Those are two different effects from the claw. One affects incorporeal creatures one way [causing real and permanent damage] and corporeal creatures another way [causing paralysis]. Why would you try to move your paralyzed arm so hard that you'd break it? Seems kinda silly and stupid to me.

    Not sure where, but I recall seing someone call non-natural weapons that at some point. Anyways, the nature of the claws is supposed to be such that while physicaly attached to the creature, they are more like having a gauntlet with a blade sticking out of it. In general, it is suposed to be like an equiped weapon that is automaticly equiped when out (like a soul knife) and can't be unequiped (and it automaticly comes out when you become a soul specter). I call it a claw, cuz visualy thats what it looks like.
    A claw is fine. They are simply non-retractable claws.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2008-09-04 at 09:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Okay. My mistake. I thought this was something else.
    Thats fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Life force is more like Hit Dice than actual hit points. This is why you gain negative levels when you lose life force.
    Good to know. Also, for lack of something better I'll just call it lifeshape. (as it has the actual shape of ones body)


    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Okay, but you never clearly spelled out the mechanic for how damage to one corrolates to damage to the others. How do you "note" a life force?

    If this were a standard energy drain attack it would deal out a negative level (causing the standard losses as follow from the SRD:
    Well, hadn't realy thought about it, But I'd think something along the lines of "every 25 damage to one of the two prime portion of the being (body or soul) causes 1 damage to its lifeshape. Every 10 damage done to the lifeshape of a creature causes 2 damage to the other two portions of the being (note if it is carried over from one portion this damage is not delt to that one). If 20 points of damage are done to the lifeshape, the creature gets a -1 penalty to Con (or the equivilent if a creature like undead which has no Con) that remains until the lifeshape is healed. Lifeshape is treated as having its own lifecount equil to half the creatures hitpoints (rounded up). If it dies the other two portions die as well. Lifeshap heals at 1/8 the rate of the other two portions (combine, or just double one at dm's discretion).

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Ghost touched weapons can affect incorporeal creature's normally. So the claws could cut off a ghost's arm. But when it affects a corporeal person, it doesn't actually sever the arm, it simply paralyzes it. Those are two different effects from the claw. One affects incorporeal creatures one way [causing real and permanent damage] and corporeal creatures another way [causing paralysis]. Why would you try to move your paralyzed arm so hard that you'd break it? Seems kinda silly and stupid to me.
    Well, your combining two different things I said. In the case of severing a lifeshape limb, a ghost would be unable to regenerate it and a body would be unable to use the limb at all (couldn't even attempt to move it). But what I also said is that it sould use its ability to interact with lifeshape to simple break the limb. In this case it would make a ghost have a broken arm that would act just like that. With a material body though it would feel like their arm is broken, and their arm would think its broken. It would attempt to move muscles as if they were attached to a broken bone. As this would not corispond to how non broken bone would be, enough force would be able to break it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    A claw is fine. They are simply non-retractable claws.
    Well, the main reason is that it's supposed to count as two weapon fighting, and as such be affected by the feats for it. This isn't esencial to the monster, but becomes more of an isue with the class based off of it.

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    Well, hadn't realy thought about it, But I'd think something along the lines of "every 25 damage to one of the two prime portion of the being (body or soul) causes 1 damage to its lifeshape. Every 10 damage done to the lifeshape of a creature causes 2 damage to the other two portions of the being (note if it is carried over from one portion this damage is not delt to that one). If 20 points of damage are done to the lifeshape, the creature gets a -1 penalty to Con (or the equivilent if a creature like undead which has no Con) that remains until the lifeshape is healed. Lifeshape is treated as having its own lifecount equil to half the creatures hitpoints (rounded up). If it dies the other two portions die as well. Lifeshap heals at 1/8 the rate of the other two portions (combine, or just double one at dm's discretion).
    I think you need to apply the K.I.S.S. principle here. For one, you're creating a whole new idea of "damage" it's neither hit points nor levels but some nebulous quality that you haven't even defined. Second, you're expecting a DM who has enough crap to do, to keep track of this system for just one critter. It's a lousy idea. It may work for you and your homebrew, but I would just drop the whole idea.

    Have you any idea how silly 1/8 damage is? You should never round up in D&D that's antithetical to every other rounding in game. You round down for hit points, for levels, etc. rounding up suddenly makes it another exception to standard rules.

    I seriously recommend that you play test this against other similar creature's because it seems to have some serious flaws.

    I know you are wedded to the 3 types of damage but it doesn't gel. 1/8 damage is really awkward. You shouldn't be needing a calculate to figure it out --especially during combat. This has a lot of flavor but the mechanics aren't backing it up.

    This might work as a homebrew, but it really is lousy for any standard D&D game, especially one that doesn't use homebrew rules. As it stands, I couldn't use this. I'd have to make significant changes and it probably wouldn't even be recognizable to this creature.

    All I can say is good luck with it.

    Debby

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    Default Re: Look out, nothing short of a gental breeze can keep it at bay [Creature, PEACH]

    The 1/8 was the rate at which the lifeshape healed. Not the rate at which it is damaged. Also, as it is 1/8 your souls hp and your bodies hp regeneration, unless your some bizzar guy who has different stats for your spirit and your body (more an issue for possesing things or things that can leave their body), then its realy 1/4 (asumed that souls and bodies regen match). The main reason for natural regen (such as when resting) is that otherwise it would only be a few fights befor it was all used up and all the players die. The reason I said round up is that if some poor player rolls a 1 on their hd for level 1, they have no hp and automaticly die. Though I suppose I could add a minimum to it (like half hp + 5). Also, I'm planning on making more stuff that uses this system. The reason I'm starting here is that this is the only creature that can naturaly interact with it dirrectly (atleast so far). There will likely be some things such as a few classes and spells that are based upon it too aside from the class that is going to be based upon this creature.

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    Last edited by Owrtho; 2008-09-07 at 09:52 PM.
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