[4e] Hurting People and Breaking Stuff

[LibraryOgre]

The source of the title, since I'm mostly talking about Breaking Stuff.

If a 1st level wizard wanted to break stuff (like those pesky implements in the hands of clerics, warlocks, and other wizards), how would he go about it?

[Tadanori Oyama]

Have them put it down and hit it with the butt of their staff.

Target it with Magic Missle.

Why do you want that, though? If its your party their your allies and if its the enemy than that's part of your treasure parcels.

[LibraryOgre]

Have them put it down and hit it with the butt of their staff.

Target it with Magic Missle.

Why do you want that, though? If its your party their your allies and if its the enemy than that's part of your treasure parcels.

I suppose I was asking "What are the rules regarding it?"

And, really, blowing up an enemy's implement at 1st level doesn't rob you of a lot of treasure... chances are good that it just cripples the enemy.

[Knaight]

There are no rules regarding it. That said you can always do a dex vs. reflex check, with them getting size bonus to reflex(of the object). The ability vs. save check works pretty well most of the time(although I still like how fudge fu did it better.)

[Colmarr]

And, really, blowing up an enemy's implement at 1st level doesn't rob you of a lot of treasure... chances are good that it just cripples the enemy.

Actually, it doesn't.

Destroying someone's implement doesn't prevent them from casting spells. It just robs them of whatever benefit the implement provides (+1 enhancement etc) and the opportunity to use powers based on the presence of the implement (eg. the implement's properties, the implement's daily power, and wizard class features based on implement mastery).

Destroying a warlock's rod won't stop him Eldritch blasting you in the face, nor will it stop a cleric from healing or a wizard from using burning hands. Nor will destroying a fighter's sword stop him from Brute Striking you (although it would decrease his [W] die size). The implement keyword is not the same as "Prerequisite: You must be wielding an implement", and there are relatively few powers that include such prerequisites.

As such, "sundering" would be a relatively sub-optimal tactic at low-levels, even were it available in the RAW.

[ericgrau]

Oh, this is 4e. FWIW you can't target held/carried/worn/etc. objects in 3.5e (you'll just hit the creature instead) and in 4e the DM may rule that you can target an object with a spell that normally targets creatures whenever he sees fit.

IMO in 4e you should be able to target unattended objects whenever it makes sense but not those held by creatures, to avoid breaking the game. "Whenever it makes sense" is up to the DM but usually it's obvious by common sense and often you shouldn't even need to ask (since you already know the DM will agree).

[Aquillion]

Oh, this is 4e. FWIW you can't target held/carried/worn/etc. objects in 3.5e (you'll just hit the creature instead) and in 4e the DM may rule that you can target an object with a spell that normally targets creatures whenever he sees fit.

In 3.5e it depends on the spell. You can target objects (attended or otherwise) with any spell that lists its saving throw as (object), of course -- disintegrate, say.

You can also make a sunder attempt with any old ray, since they count as ranged weapons, but this requires the ranged sunder feat.

But you can't just acid arrow your opponent's hat unless your DM rules otherwise.

[Grey Watcher]

I don't think there's RAW support for Sundering... but seems like the kind of thing 4e would handle as a discrete power. I haven't the time to go poring through my books right now, but I believe that functions like Disarm, Trip, etc. are things you get from an appropriate power now. I'd say the best solution is simply to write up a few powers that allow you to do just that. A Utility might be best since, as I understand it, those don't actually get replaced as you level up. If you want to have it be an Attack, I'd suggest having a series of powers, at least 1 per tier. I'd suggest something along the lines of a melee attack vs. Reflex. Hit destroys the target's weapon/implement/whatever and possibly damages the target (appropriate for high level versions of this power). Possibly half damage and no Sunder on a miss. Magical weapons and implements might add their enhancement bonus to the Reflex defense against this attack, since magical items should be harder to break than their mundane counterparts.

Anyway, that's just my 2 astral diamonds.