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    Default [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    EDIT (December 2009) For cross referencing purposes see (some parts of these may be more compatable than others): Norr's Revamped Lycanthropes: Based on Prachett to a large degree.

    Lyndworm's Simplified Lycanthropes: Gets rid of racial HD, and sharply reduces LA, allows herbivores, and simplifies a lot of the peripheral mechanics.



    I realize I am probably only scratching the surface of the implications of this on a campaign world, so please jump in with your thoughts.

    As the title implies this is not nearly enough for a full campaign setting, but it is enough to have very far reaching implications for the setting. Basically this is what happens when you take the "werewolf apocalypse" (lycanthropy as an epidemic/pandemic) seriously and find the most logical method by which it would have been stopped from ever becoming a true problem. Basically some time in the past the every were-species protected its ideals (or was paid by others to protect THEIR ideals) by nipping nearly everyone of their alignment (the chaotic ones may have nipped people not of their alignments, but in the long-run that just got people annoyed at them and made the others hurry up the process more). There are still isolated holdouts, but they are groups who, for one reason or another don't WANT to be theranthropes.

    For simplicity assume that this caused alchemy/metallurgy to advance such that Alchemical Silver weapons still cost the same but no longer do -1 damage.

    Edit: So as not to torment the monks unnecessarily, and to keep bar-room brawls interesting, say that as long as you are in a form that has DR/Silver your unarmed/natural attacks count as silver for the purposes of overcoming DR. (Note that this makes Demons slightly less of a threat in this world than Devils compared to a more traditional setting...)

    Ignore the ECL minimiums for various theranthrope types, as those minimums are based on the concept that the character will be in baseline humanoid form some noticable amount of the time. In this world, hybrid form is the norm.

    My gut is telling me to drop the +2 Wisdom thing and the +2 to natural armor over and above what the base animal gets... the wisdom thing keeps the balance between clerics and wizards the same in the world for one thing, and the value of spells that target each of the saves similarly less effected. Especially if DR/Silver is retained then the Natural Armor increase isn't need to make them PLENTY tough.

    Going to need more weres than are in the MM of course... I believe that wereboars were Chaotic Good in 2nd edition and for these purposes we will move them back there. Following table shows my current thoughts...(Still need more options for some of the alignments)

    * Would have considered putting eagles at NG, or maybe even LG, but Eagle just fits elves SO well.
    ** For the Grigs and Pixies if we say that they can be infected...
    *** See * above, but for Dwarves.
    (1) Base Creature must be Aquatic
    (2) Yes, this is a bit silly, but for some reason I couldn't resist
    (3) Use Dire Weasel Statistics, but with +2 Dex and no Blood Drain
    (4) For the Drow of course...

    Other species to add:
    Polar Bears, Monitor Lizards and Tegus,

    Implications:
    Obviously going to be a higher powered campaign...

    Even with natural weapons by-passing DR/Silver, silver will be something of a strategic resource (ranged weapons, reach weapons, higher damage, iterative attacks for experienced combatants), might be a restricted substance in some areas to prevent peasant uprisings or military weakening via export...

    Since most hybrid forms have no mechanical or practical disadvantages compared to base form anyone walking around in humanoid form is looked on with suspicion. Everyones alignment is as plain as the snout on their face... there can still be intrigue in this world, but the flavor of that intrigue is generally going to be much different.

    What with the DR and CON bonuses life expectancy for the masses is going to be a lot higher.

    Ubiquitous Low-light vision makes possible work day longer for humans and halflings, similar to invention of gas-lights/electric bulbs.

    Higher movement rates and carrying capacities (STR and Quadrupedal option) makes populations slightly more mobile. Nobles probably still ride (although with the precedent of palanquins(sp) and rickshaws they might ride a servant rather than a dumb animal).

    Draft/Pack animals become slightly less common/valuable since many farmers can pull their own plows (taking turns of course). Bloodhounds become obsolete.

    With alignment changes nearly impossible for most of the population, the dynamics of religious politics/warfare will be changed at least some.

    [Semi-humorous]Children will be expected to settle their fights with knives if possible so as to avoid hurting each-other (since their natural attacks actually do more perminant damage).[/Semi-humorous]

    I am assuming a fairly species integrated population for most cities. Were-horses can probably be found almost everywhere, and wereskunk fighters probably adventure alongside werelion paladins on a regular basis. Wereviper mercinaries take contracts from wererat aristocrats... and weredolphin shipwrights can be found in every port city scraping the barnacles off every ship that can pay their rates. The demographics are probably AT LEAST as well integrated by animal forms as they are by base humanoid race. So lots of trade, very little intermarriage (since they can't have kids), but a good degree of living in the same cities. Small villages would probably be more single were-type, but only because of the intermarriage problems.

    The way I am thinking of this, the "innoculations" all happened at least 100-200 years ago. So by the time the campaign starts almost everyone would be Natural born for the most part other than elves of middle-age or older and the Old or Anchient of most of the other races...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2009-12-14 at 02:46 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    So, you're saying that basicly everyone in the world are lycans except for some small secret settlements of "pure" humans?

    Other than that it's pretty much the same old D&D world but with regions controlled by a singular "species" of lycans?

    (Sorry for having to asking, it's pretty late here and I'm getting stupid.)
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Ooh, now this is a neat idea.

    It'll probably have an effect on the classes too, since druids won't be all "Hey check it out, I can turn into an animal, cool, huh?"

    Clerics will probably have a new domain or two (Moon domain is probably a must). Probably a new pantheon too.

    How will this affect travel, now that everyone can turn into an animal for faster speed? Will folks still use mounts?

    Will there be true lycanthropes at all? If so, will they have a higher position in the world?

    You need to keep up with this; I'd love to see more (however, if a war breaks out with vampires, I'm sorry, but I may have to shoot ya').

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asheram View Post
    So, you're saying that basicly everyone in the world are lycans except for some small secret settlements of "pure" humans?

    Other than that it's pretty much the same old D&D world but with regions controlled by a singular "species" of lycans?

    (Sorry for having to asking, it's pretty late here and I'm getting stupid.)
    Not just the humans... AT LEAST every humanoid humanoid species in existence... elves, dwarves, gnomes etc... and that is if you don't choose to extend it to monstrous humanoids, intelligent aberrations, and dragons for further campaign flavor.

    [Rant]This is NOT your fault, and I have said this before but it really is a pet peeve of mine... It is THERIANTHROPE (animal man), NOT Lycanthrope(wolf man)... WotC is pandering to the slightly less well educated by not using the proper Greek in this case and it annoys me! [/Rant]

    Very Belated EDIT: No, actually, I am assuming a fairly species integrated population for most cities. See a later post of mine for further details.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-10-28 at 10:10 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Not just the humans... AT LEAST every humanoid humanoid species in existence... elves, dwarves, gnomes etc... and that is if don't choose to extend it to monstrous humanoids, intelligent aberrations, and dragons for further campaign flavor.

    [Rant]This is NOT your fault, and I have said this before but it really is a pet peeve of mine... It is THERIANTHROPE (animal man), NOT Lycanthrope(wolf man)... WotC is pandering to the slightly less well educated by not using the proper Greek in this case and it annoys me! [/Rant]

    Even so, my apologies.

    So. I take it there's no communication between the species? No trade what so ever?

    How long have these wars been going on? I'm somewhat wondering about how this have impacted the social/technological progress or even if there've been some reversion.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    It'll probably have an effect on the classes too, since druids won't be all "Hey check it out, I can turn into an animal, cool, huh?"
    Well, they still have the "I can turn into a bunch of DIFFERENT animals, cool, huh?" thing going, but yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    Clerics will probably have a new domain or two (Moon domain is probably a must).
    Never heard of that domain, but yes, sounds about right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    Probably a new pantheon too.
    I see no reason to alter the pantheon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    How will this affect travel, now that everyone can turn into an animal for faster speed? Will folks still use mounts?
    I mentioned that as far as the lower classes go... nobles probably still ride (although with the precedent of palanquins(sp) and rickshaws they might ride a servant rather than a dumb animal).
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    Will there be true lycanthropes at all? If so, will they have a higher position in the world?
    You mean Infected versus Natural born? The way I am thinking of this, the "innoculations" all happened at least 100-200 years ago. So by the time the campaign starts almost everyone would be Natural born for the most part other than elves of middle-age or older and the Old or Anchient of most of the other races...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    You need to keep up with this; I'd love to see more
    Thank you. Note that since it is a FACET, I am not likely to turn it into a full setting/campaign... just want to set up a base that people can build around/integrate with other facets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    (however, if a war breaks out with vampires, I'm sorry, but I may have to shoot ya').
    That would, indeed, qualify as a mercy killing...
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Funny I should run across this now, I have spent the last few days creating a lower-powered (and maybe sligthly more flavourful) kind of were-template. It ditches level adjustments, superpowered were-forms (to some extent), the control shape skill and exchanges damage reduction for something more... prattchetian.
    I can post a link when its ready for beta.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asheram View Post
    So. I take it there's no communication between the species? No trade what so ever?
    Quite the opposite I should think... werehorses can probably be found almost everywhere, and wereskunk fighters probably adventure alongside werelion paladins on a regular basis. Wereviper mercinaries take contracts from wererat aristocrats... and weredolphin shipwrights can be found in every port city scraping the barnacles off every ship that can pay their rates. The demographics are probably AT LEAST as well integrated by animal forms as they are by base humanoid race. So lots of trade, very little intermarriage (since they can't have kids), but a good degree of living in the same cities. Small villages would probably be more single were-type, but only because of the intermarriage problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheram View Post
    How long have these wars been going on? I'm somewhat wondering about how this have impacted the social/technological progress or even if there've been some reversion.
    What wars? As I see it, some of the weres tried to convert everyone by force some time in the rather distant past, the rest stopped them by pre-emptively inoculating everyone of there own individual alignments, and there you go... Of course if YOU want to have ongoing wars, that is great! Go for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Norr View Post
    Funny I should run across this now, I have spent the last few days creating a lower-powered (and maybe sligthly more flavourful) kind of were-template. It ditches level adjustments, superpowered were-forms (to some extent), the control shape skill and exchanges damage reduction for something more... prattchetian.
    I can post a link when its ready for beta.
    That is great, but I think it splits into two sub-concepts of what I have laid out here, and both can be good in their own ways...
    A world where every peasant has DR 10/silver and most of them DON'T own draft animals has some very interesting implications...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-24 at 06:08 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    You'll want to figure out how you want to handle racial hit dice and LA.

    If you treat both fully towards ECL, for a meatshield character, 3/4 BAB, d8 hit dice aren't that bad - the Weartiger's six racial hit die aren't going to hurt him so much if they count for full (especially with the strength boost + Pounce), although he's liable to be annoyed at the +3 LA (but then, everyone has that); except that he's only permitted in an ECL 10+ game. The caster or skillmonkey, on the other hand, is going to be considerably behind.

    If you ignore them completely, then basically everyone wants the high hit die critters - for the hit points and saves, if nothing else. But it also has the side-effect of making that werecat considerably mechanically weaker at the same game ECL as the weretiger.

    A suggestion: Make the "Wereworld Effective Character Level" (WECL) = the CR of the base animal (treating anything below CR 1 as CR 0) + character levels. That is, the WECL of a Werecat is +0, the WECL of the Werebear (based on the Brown Bear) is +4, the WECL of the Weretiger is +4 (as the Tiger is CR 4), and so on. Racial hit dice from the animal side are ignored for purposes of WECL. Use WECL in a Wereworld campaign in place of ECL for all purposes.

    Also - it's just Magic and Epic DR that make the natural weapons treated as the Magic or Epic - Silver doesn't have that clause by default, so children fighting will be ignored, as they're going to have some severe difficulties getting past each other's DR 10/silver.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2008-08-24 at 06:24 PM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    ECL and racial HD... yeah... too tired to think about that right now...

    Strongly suggest totally ignoring the "minimum character level" stuff since that is based on the assumption that the character will actually be in baseline humanoid form any significant portion of the time...

    Huh... guess I missed something... certainly didn't think that DR/silver makes your attacks qualify as Magic for DR bypass purposes... and indeed it doesn't, but it also SEEMS (if I didn't miss something in my reading just now) that by RAW it DOESN'T make your attacks qualify as Silver...

    I recommend being nice to the monks by adding in "if you have a given DR to a specific material as a racial quality, your natural attacks qualify as those types for purposes of bypassing DR", which is what I thought the case was to begin with.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-24 at 06:33 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    ECL and racial HD... yeah... too tired to think about that right now...

    Strongly suggest totally ignoring the "minimum character level" stuff since that is based on the assumption that the character will actually be in baseline humanoid form any significant portion of the time...

    Huh... guess I missed something... certainly didn't think that DR/silver makes your attacks qualify as Magic for DR bypass purposes... and indeed it doesn't, but it also SEEMS (if I didn't miss something in my reading just now) that by RAW it DOESN'T make your attacks qualify as Silver...

    I recommend being nice to the monks by adding in "if you have a given DR to a specific material as a racial quality, your natural attacks qualify as those types for purposes of bypassing DR", which is what I thought the case was to begin with.
    ... if a Were's natural attacks are considered silver for the purposes of overcoming DR, then there's little to no point in regulating silver (as everyone's got claws and teeth that'll do the job of killing just fine).

    Perhaps instead of having it as a racial quality, have it as a hard-to-qualify for feat (as in, a Fighter can get it spending two or three feats to qualify, but it's a bit much of an investment for anyone else), and make it an option for the Monk's first level bonus feat - and, as a class bonus feat, the Monk doesn't need to qualify for it to take it (so long as the monk is unarmored and unencumbered, et cetera, as is required by the Monk's AC bonus).
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Manufactured weapons do more damage, some can be used at range, and at character level 6 and higher you get iterative attacks with them.... which means that if we do it the way I am suggesting silver isn't the critical resource I thought it might be, which I think is fine. Besides, we have to keep the tavern brawls interesting.

    EDIT: You also have Reach weapons to consider.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-27 at 03:11 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Manufactured weapons do more damage, some can be used at range, and at character level 6 and higher you get iterative attacks with them.... which means that if we do it the way I am suggesting silver isn't the critical resource I thought it might be, which I think is fine. Besides, we have to keep the tavern brawls interesting.
    Oh, tavern brawls will be interesting either way. Between the +xd6 sneak attack dice from rogues and the little issue that the monster manual wearbear in hybrid form has a full attack line of Claw +13 melee 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+9) and bite +11 melee (1d8+4), either claw has a 5/6 chance of penetrating DR just through brute damage even if it does apply.

    ... hmm, they messed up on the bite - that should be (2d6+4).
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Yeah, but I am also talking about one where half the combatants are warriors and experts and commoners... and wereferrets rather than werebears...

    Edit: Have been adding in more species... including the NN Were-Oysters (bet they look really funky in hybrid form...).
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-24 at 07:55 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Yeah, but I am also talking about one where half the combatants are warriors and experts and commoners... and wereferrets rather than werebears...

    Edit: Have been adding in more species... including the NN Were-Oysters (bet they look really funky in hybrid form...).
    Wereferrets won't be particularly interesting in a brawl anyway, unless it's done through several class levels. They don't have many hit die for hit points, they're probably going to be small, and probably going to have significantly reduced strength. Without a few levels in rogue or similar, they'll have a very low damage output anyway.

    Besides - DR counting by gives you, as the DM, a bit more leeway in how much threat you want to throw at the party, and how much you want them to be aware of it. For the random big mob? It gives you an extra -1 or -2 CR if they have to deal with DR 10. At any time, you can send them up against an opponent that will be serious (Silversheen works on natural weapons). It also gives you a way to distinguish those that are out to kill other intelligent people from those that are merely hunting - killers carry silver weapons, the hunting crowd doesn't.

    Mind you, the PC's will get silver weapons in fairly short order, which will cause some hilarity....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Just some thoughts on the matter, but maby people could choose to ignor the 10 DR/silver, but in doing so only deal nonlethal damage. Also, not sure how it regularly works in DnD, but perhapse the full moon would enhance hybrid forms, but provoke violence, making all therianthropes have to make will saves each hour or automaticly asume hybrid form and attack everyone in sight untill morning (or perhapse give them will saves every little bit to snap out of it). The will saves could be nearly insignificant when in human form, but quite high when in hybrid form. This would mean a few days each month work would go more slowly as everyone would be going into human form for the night, and could alow some intresting aspects (such as a class that focuses on controling the hybrid form during full moons).

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Wereferrets won't be particularly interesting in a brawl anyway, unless it's done through several class levels. They don't have many hit die for hit points, they're probably going to be small, and probably going to have significantly reduced strength. Without a few levels in rogue or similar, they'll have a very low damage output anyway.
    Umm... I think you missed a critical footnote... the wereferrets use the stats (including size) for dire weasels, but with an extra +2 DEX and no "Attach" ability.

    Lest we lose site of the big picture: Everyone remember that this is a FRAGMENT of a setting here (at least so far) so having 20 different areas where we are simultaneously discussing 2 or more separate possibilities really just means that anyone who uses the fragment (and everyone, PLEASE feel free to use this but if so please tell me/us how it goes and which variations you used) is given a lot of options for which way they want to take it to make the campaign flavor out the way they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Just some thoughts on the matter, but maby people could choose to ignore the 10 DR/silver, but in doing so only deal nonlethal damage.
    That could work as a setting specific solution I think... keeps the social impact (can't die from accidents or animal attacks easily) while reducing adventure power levels).

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Also, not sure how it regularly works in DnD, but perhapse the full moon would enhance hybrid forms, but provoke violence, making all therianthropes have to make will saves each hour or automaticly asume hybrid form and attack everyone in sight untill morning (or perhapse give them will saves every little bit to snap out of it). The will saves could be nearly insignificant when in human form, but quite high when in hybrid form. This would mean a few days each month work would go more slowly as everyone would be going into human form for the night, and could alow some intresting aspects (such as a class that focuses on controlling the hybrid form during full moons).
    That isn't how it works in D&D for natural born theranthropes and it is only SLIGHTLY how it works for infected ones.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-24 at 10:04 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    For cross-referencing purposes: Here is an thread that evidently got inspired by this one, with an alternate look at theranthropes in general.

    (and also: Bump!)

    Edit:
    Need more animal types... and what do people think of the alignments for the ones I have listed?
    I realize the Oysters are sorta silly but...
    Where should I put the squid and/or octopi?



    /me heads off to put ducks and geese in at LN (because they fly in formation)
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-26 at 11:09 AM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Oki Doki Draco Dei, heres the thing I've been working on for the last 4-5 days or so: Revamped therianthrope.

    Most of the text is fluff and clarifications, so don't be intimidated. I'm also thinking about adding stat blocks and one or two very optional feats.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Preliminary thoughts relevant to combining the way these two ideas (have read through once, except for some of the Contest of Wills section) :

    EDITThe animal mind thing might or might not make an interesting sub-variation of were-world... it seems to weaken the importance of character alignment and should certainly not be used in a species-alignment game (since you have the animal mind as being True Neutral). If the animal mind is given the alignment of the humanoid mind that works much better... another option is to allow free choice of humanoid mind alignment, but use the species alignment from the chart for the animal mind. This would create an interesting dynamic of most individuals matching the two alignments together with a few stubborn exceptions.
    The alignment stuff, is a major branching of paths as far as various possibilities with the "were-world" concept goes, so I don't think people should discount either path, or even a middle road that gives some species a choice of a few different alignments (perhaps adjacent, perhaps not).

    Size
    Suggest making the hybrid form the larger of the two sizes if they are different.

    Hit Dice
    I think you may be onto something with how you have handled the animal HD. Alhough I wouldn't recommend giving Alphas an additional animal HD in a campaign with the were-world aspect to it. One thing I would say is that if you have racial HD (say for a giant) them you only get enough animal HD to bring you up to the total racial HD a human theranthrope would have, often this would be zero. Note also that Animal HD aren't that bad for melee classes IMHO...
    Quote of this section in Norr's thread for clarity:
    Hit Dice and Hit Points
    Same as the base creature plus a number of animal HD determined by the base animal (+ animals HD, rounded up, minimum 1 for afflicted therianthropes). To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the therianthrope has in each form. If the base animal normally would have less than one full HD, the therianthropic character does not acquire any animal HD. Alpha type therianthropes have one additional animal HD in addition to those gained due to the base animals HD.*
    *Example: An alpha type were-wolf would have 2 animal HD while an omega type would have 1 animal HD.
    *Example: An alpha type were-cat would have 1 animal HD while an omega type would have 0 animal HD.
    Speed
    For were-world I might recommend giving all movement modes of both forms in hybrid form, with speed as the average of the two for each mode. Not having a given mode would count as Speed 0 for that mode. Manuvariablity is increases one step if the hybrid form is smaller than the animal form, and decreases one step if it is larger...

    Armor Class
    Didn't even realize theranthropes got better natural armor than the animal... I totally agree on ditching it. Helps keep the LA's minimal. Have edited this into my original post.

    Attacks
    Agree that were-octopi should not get claw attacks. Why not just say "Hybrid form has the same attack forms as the animal form with damage dice adjusted for any size change"?

    Special Attacks
    No access to special attack forms in hybrid form? NAY I say! Pouncing Tigers and Spraying Skunks must be! (especially the skunks)... tripping wolves are a bit dubious because they would have to bend down all the way to the ground to trip like a wolf does by grabbing the ankle... but to maximize flavor, almost all specials attacks and abilities should be kept in hybrid form.

    I also strongly recommend allowing hybrids to use verbal components... keeps from COMPLETELY discouraging high racial HD casters as PCs (well except as gishs using long duration buffs...).

    Curse of Theranthropy
    As I hopeful mentioned, for were-world I recommend allowing at least monsterous humanoids to contract theranthropy. Also "hybernation" doesn't fit were-world at all... There are SUPPOSED to be 1st level commoner were-elephants around, that is a major aspect of the setting.

    Special Qualities
    You don't mention which special qualities they have in hybrid form... I would recommend USUALLY giving them all the special qualities of both, and only omitting those that wouldn't make sense from a morphological POV.

    Reverting when killed is a total toss-up in were-world and won't matter one way or another hardly ever.
    The "Therianthropic Toughness" and "Silver vulnerability" are big differences between RAW D&D and Prachett.

    Strongly dis-recommend people using the stuff you have listed under "Silver Vulnerability" in a wereworld campaign, since we want the PCs and military forces to be using weapons against other humanoids. The exception to this would be +1 damage from silver weapons you list could serve as an option instead of the metallurgical advancement I recommended.

    Swapping DR for Regeneration 0 like you have done could be a good option in a wereworld campaign, but in such a case I would recommend allowing all energy types to bypass the Regeneration, rather than just fire. This leaves arcane casters with a larger range of viable options for spell picks even if they don't take "Energy Substitution (Fire)" at the earliest possible chance.

    I totally agree with you about not giving EVERYONE scent and low-light vision ... didn't even realize that RAW theranthropes gave those to everything... don't know about giving them in humanoid/giant form though...

    Saves
    As a supporter of "Fractional Saves and BAB" (including half-point bonuses for odd ability score numbers) I mostly support what you are trying to do, but I think that as part of that they should be able to get the +2 once for each save. So an ECL 2 first level, one animal HD werecat wizard would have +2 (or +2.83333 = (2+1/2) +1/3) base saves for both Reflex and Will.

    Abilities
    For physical stats I would recommend having the animal form use the animals stat MODIFIERS for physical stats, the hybrid form using BOTH sets of modifiers added together, and the humaniod form use just the humanoid modifiers. This makes the animal forms less generic and doesn't punish fighters for shifting into animal form. Realizing that this makes elven weretiger rogues something straight out of "The Matrix" when in hybrid or animal forms... but that is as it should be...

    EDIT: On re-reading I realize that you are using the AVERAGE for the hybrid form, which I like, but I still would say that should be the average adjustments, added to your rolled (and leveled and magic itemed) stats. I also think that a Belt of Strength and similar items should shift with, and apply to, ALL forms.

    Skills
    I don't think racial bonuses for the animal should apply to humanoid form. Think they almost always should apply to hybrid form.

    Feats
    For wereworld I would recommend dropping "Iron Will" so that Enchanters and Beguilers aren't starting off at a disadvantage.
    Recommend giving all Animal feats, since my monster creation experience indicates to me that they very well might have picked which ones are "basic" and which ones are "bonus" arbitrarily.

    Level Adjustment
    No idea of the balance of how you have yours set up... my recommended changes to it PROBABLY mean that at least a small amount of LA is going to have to come back in at least SOME cases for were-world.


    Theranthropy as an Affliction
    This should be almost entirely irrelevant to the were-world concept...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-27 at 03:18 PM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Hi, most of my comments to you DracoDei is on my thread, but I thought my specific thoughts for the wereworld should go here.

    HD
    Since Alphas are the most common were-type I agree that the extra animal HD should be dropped since more or less everyone will have it anyway. After all, relative power level is the only thing we can measure by.

    Special attacks
    For the were-world I suggest dropping the hibernation part of therianthropy. Natural therianthropes have their full abilities from birth and afflicted therianthropes immediately show symptoms at the next full moon.

    Special qualities
    Remember, silver only have negative effects when in direct contact with he skin (I must clarify that in my thread ^^;). It's easy for a therianthrope to use a silvered weapon as long as the handle in wooden or wrapped in leather. Spears and axes doesn't even need those modifications. silver jewellery can be switched for nickel (which the uberwald were-aristocracy did).
    Basically I need to re-word the silver weakness entry, but in a were-world you just ignore everything other than the +1 damage against weres.

    Feats
    For wereworld, drop Iron will. Everyone will have it anyway, so it's pretty unneeded.

    Therianthropy as an Affliction
    Drop this for wereworld. afflicted therianthopes automatically become alpha type in a wereworld.

    All the other things have been commented on in my own thread so as to not clog up your with things semi-irrelevant to the wereworld itself.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Species I currently especially need alignment suggestions for:
    Armadillos
    Crabs (by species?)
    Deer
    Dogs(considering moving them from LN to LG)
    Elephants
    Elk
    Fruit Bats
    Hedgehogs
    Humming Birds (very rarely going to come up, even if one allows Fae to be infected)
    Lobsters
    Polar Bears
    Porcupines
    Octopi
    Squid
    Turkeys
    Monitor Lizards and Tegus,
    Monsterous Bees (Lawful obviously, but Good or Neutral... probably good cuz honey is nice and they lay down their lives for the hive)
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2008-08-28 at 07:32 AM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Species I currently especially need alignment suggestions for
    Animal alignment are base don how animals are percieved, right? and how animals are classically percieved is differnt from how modern people percieve them since we know more about their ecology and social life.

    Anyway, I thought I would lend a hand.

    According to wikipedia Armadillos are solitary animals and never shares a burrow with other adults of its kind. This leads me to suggest a somewhat neutral or chaotic bent or chaotic neutral (extreme individualism). Landowners are likely to view tham as evil since their burrows have more or less the same effects as molehills, but are bigger and more treacherous.

    Crabs are a diverse lot. I suggest crabs who move in large numbers be lawful neutral or lawful evil. Crabs keeping to themselves might be neutral or neutral good (if they spend time removing parasites from others). Parasitic crabs (like the pea crab) should be neutral evil.

    On deer... I don't have much. they can go ever which way (single, small herd, taking care of fawns, sending aways fawns etc) so I say neutral on average, or allow the therianthrope to choose whatever alignment he wishes.

    Dogs, mans best friend, always loyal and happy to help. I know it's not always like this, but the prevalence of the trope says lawful good to me.

    Elephants. Herd animals with a hierarchy, they take good care of their young and mourn their dead. I'd say lawful good. Every farmer would say chaotic evil. Take your pick :p

    Elk. From what I read on wikipedia I would say lawful neutral most of the season.

    Fruit bats polliante all kinds of plants in exchange for food. That's some serious community service. I would say neutral good.

    Hedgehog males often kill most male newborn of their own litters, allowing more female hedgehogs for future generations. I would say lawful evil.

    Hummingbird. The male does not help the femle rear their young, and mostly hummingbirds just flick around sipping nectar. They serve as specialised pollinators for many flowers. I say chaotic neutral or chaotic good.

    Lobsters. Beats me.

    I feel I'm getting too tired to interpret alignments from animal behaviors. I might continue this later.
    Anyway, now you have some suggestions to check up on.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Lycanthrope alignment as per RAW is indeed based on how people in a medieval European fantasy world would view them. Since these therianthropes seem to be aligned along that logic, my suggestions are as follows.




    Missing are the electric eel, armadillo, elephant, fruit bat, and hummingbird. Logically, Europeans would have little to no contact wth any of these animals, as all but the elephant are found only in the Americas. They would've had the most exposure (if any) to the Indian (or Asian) elephant, as they were occasionally used in warfare and as pack or show animals by travellers.

    My suggested alignments based on behavior would be as follows:

    Electric Eel - Neutral Evil
    Armadillo - Chaotic Neutral
    Elephant - Lawful Neutral
    Fruit Bat - Neutral Good
    Hummingbid - Chaotic Good

    Hopefully I've helped.

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    Last edited by Lyndworm; 2008-08-29 at 02:43 AM.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Why exactly are you using the alignment thing? I always thought that was the stupidest thing about the lycanthrope flavor. i.e. Wolves are perceived as evil so werewolves become CE, despite wolves always staying in families and working together extremely well.
    Wait, what?

    Unless you have a very good reason to keep that silliness, I'd say ditch it. Werewolves of fantasy are evil because they are ostracized, not ostracized because they are evil.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    The fixed alignment thing is very much necessary to the setting. Perhaps allowing two or three alignments for each species could work, but without the fixed alignment thing there is much less reason to "innoculate" everyone.

    If you are saying that if you ran this that Werewolves would be Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral or something, then I say "Go for it!". But about a millenium of mythological traditions says that you are wrong about the reasons why they are evil if they are evil... feel free to buck it (I am all for new twists), but don't complain to me for picking not to buck that PARTICULAR part of the traditional mindset.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I've added a higher-powered were-world version of the therianthrope template in this thread.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Thank you very much.
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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    The fixed alignment thing is very much necessary to the setting. Perhaps allowing two or three alignments for each species could work, but without the fixed alignment thing there is much less reason to "innoculate" everyone.
    But as I recall, you said the innoculation occured atleast 1-2 generations ago for races of average lifespan. And as alignment is not hereditary while therianthropy is, there could easily have been fluctuation in the makeup of the alignments. Also, it is usualy seems to be the case in stories that one does not become evil by becoming a werewolf, but is unable to control themselves in wolf form so is thus ostrisized which can cause them to become spiteful or evil.

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    Default Re: [Setting Facet] "Were-World" (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Alignment certainly IS heritary for standard D&D theranthropes. Otherwise the alignment listings for them would use "usually" or "often" instead of "always". The alignment goes with the species.
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