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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Now, I'm personally a big fan of the Warlock class, and I have a question concerning the Eldrich Thereuge and Eldritch Disciple PrC's from the Complete Mage. I like both classes Thematically, but I find that taking either of them seriously dents one's Invocation Progression. Would it be unreasonable to allow players to flip the prerequisites around? This would include changing the first level to increasing arcane caster progression. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by MeklorIlavator; 2008-08-26 at 04:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    Now, I'm personally a big fan of the Warlock class, and I have a question concerning the Eldrich Thereuge and Eldritch Disciple PrC's from the Complete Mage. I like both classes Thematically, but I find that taking either of them seriously dents one's Invocation Progression. Would it be unreasonable to allow players to flip the prerequisites around? This would include changing the first level to increasing arcane caster progression. Any thoughts?
    I just got my DM to do this for a guy in my campaign. Warlocks are underpowered, dual-progression classes are underpowered, progressing Warlock primarily won't break anything at all.
    [/sarcasm]
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    and feel free to play with the idea of using crawling eye and optic spell metamagic....not sure if they work together, but it's an entertaining thought.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Eldritch Theurge can be qualified for with just 1 wiz/sorc splash and Precocious apprentice, and so works well enough for a primary warlock.

    Eldritch Disciple needs just 1 warlock splash, and so works better for a primary cleric, going for righteous might/divine power melee glaive-lock.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Hi

    Not sure what the problem is with 'Progresion'. Both PrC's increase your CL and abilities re your Invocations.

    "At each level, you gain new invocations known and an increase in caster level....."

    Eg Cleric4/Warlock1/Eldr Disciple 5 has:

    Spells as 8th lvl Cleric, Turn Undead as 9th lvl Cleric, Invocations as 6th lvl Warlock. (Lssr Invocations, etc). You just don't get DR, Detect Magic etc.

    Cheers
    Paul H
    Last edited by Paul H; 2008-09-14 at 07:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Hi

    Not sure what the problem is with 'Progresion'. Both PrC's increase your CL and abilities re your Invocations.

    "At each level, you gain new invocations known and an increase in caster level....."

    Eg Cleric4/Warlock1/Eldr Disciple 5 has:

    Spells as 8th lvl Cleric, Turn Undead as 9th lvl Cleric, Invocations as 6th lvl Warlock. (Lssr Invocations, etc). You just don't get DR, Detect Magic etc.
    Right, but say you didn't want so many cleric levels. Is there anything wrong with changing the PrC requirements around so that you get War 4/Cler 1/ED X?


    The stuff about the theruge was a mistake, I missed the +2d6 Eldritch blast requirement.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Hi

    Think the Eld Disc requires 2nd lvl Divine Spells, so you could go Clr3/War2/ED xxxxx

    Personally I'm going Theurge with my Beguiler6/Warlock1. Took Pract. Spellcsater Warlock at 6th. My 1st Invocation was the one that grants +6 Search/+6 Spot/Comp Langs (written stuff only). Next lvl I'm Eld.Theurge, taking either the Spiderclimb, or Waterbreathing invocations.

    Be interesting to see what the other players think of my character - they were unsure about trusting a Changeling in the first place (I never told them - they found out), and now I'm a Warlock! Worse - I've got the goggles from Raiment of the Four (MIC), that allows me to convert spells into Fireballs!

    Remember - just don't try to do everything with your class mix - there's plenty of items in the MIC for that!

    Cheers
    Paul H
    PS My GM allows Beguiler to be Core Class for Changelings.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    Now, I'm personally a big fan of the Warlock class, and I have a question concerning the Eldrich Thereuge and Eldritch Disciple PrC's from the Complete Mage. I like both classes Thematically, but I find that taking either of them seriously dents one's Invocation Progression. Would it be unreasonable to allow players to flip the prerequisites around? This would include changing the first level to increasing arcane caster progression. Any thoughts?
    Just use early spellcasting entry. For Theruge, use Wizard 1 (enabled by Focused Specialist+Precocious Apprentice). For Disciple, use Ur-Priest.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Hi

    UR priest needs +3 base Fort saves, so you'll need to be 9th lvl Warlcock to meet prereqs. (And then go 2 lvls of UR priest for 2nd lvl spell/Rebuke Undead prereqs for Eld Disciple).

    So UR Priest means Warlock 9/UR Priest 2/Eld Discxxxx is doable, only losing 2 lvls of Invocations, but is it worth it?

    Still reckon Clr3/Warlock2/ED xxxx is best. (And quickest).

    Cheers
    Paul H

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Hi

    UR priest needs +3 base Fort saves, so you'll need to be 9th lvl Warlcock to meet prereqs. (And then go 2 lvls of UR priest for 2nd lvl spell/Rebuke Undead prereqs for Eld Disciple).

    So UR Priest means Warlock 9/UR Priest 2/Eld Discxxxx is doable, only losing 2 lvls of Invocations, but is it worth it?

    Still reckon Clr3/Warlock2/ED xxxx is best. (And quickest).

    Cheers
    Paul H
    Warlock 10/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 8 is considered the strongest ED build over at Gleemax and BG. You miss out on 2 levels of invocations (no big loss, the last two levels of Warlock aren't worth that much), but you get 9th level Divine spells and the Warlock's UMD ability, which in and of itself rules. You get more than you lose from this deal.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    I actually really like the idea of Warmage 1/ Warlock 4/ Eldritch Theurge. Take Versatile Spellcaster and you meet the 2nd level spells prerequisite, and you can use Fireblast with Spellblast to great effect.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    I actually really like the idea of Warmage 1/ Warlock 4/ Eldritch Theurge. Take Versatile Spellcaster and you meet the 2nd level spells prerequisite, and you can use Fireblast with Spellblast to great effect.
    That works, but the Warmage's spell list is worthless.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    That works, but the Warmage's spell list is worthless.
    You could do it with Beguiler or Dread Necromancer instead, but they don't work as well with the unique abilities of Eldritch Theurge. Sorcerer would work, but Versatile Spellcaster isn't much good for it, whereas with a class that knows its entire spell list it gives you access to another spell level. For overall playability, I'd actually go with Dread Necromancer with that build. You'd get to use Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion with Spellblast, though it wouldn't be as strong as using Warmage early on.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    I hadn't seen that particular trick before... It's a nice change of pace from the usual Precocious Apprentice early-entry trick.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    I hadn't seen that particular trick before... It's a nice change of pace from the usual Precocious Apprentice early-entry trick.
    As it just so happens, WotC says Precocious Apprentice doesn't allow early entry, but they've specifically said that Versatile Spellcaster (with Heighten Spell if necessary) does allow for early entry. Therefore, it's actually a more valid trick than Precocious Apprentice.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    As it just so happens, WotC says Precocious Apprentice doesn't allow early entry, but they've specifically said that Versatile Spellcaster (with Heighten Spell if necessary) does allow for early entry. Therefore, it's actually a more valid trick than Precocious Apprentice.
    WotC Custserv and Sage apparently don't understand the rules. The made a massive mistake, but it definitely works by the RAW, and they need to accept that they were idiots.
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    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Theruge/Disiple[3.5]

    This was how I tried to fix the eldritch theurge. Take both classes, more in one or the other depending on which way you wanna take a character.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2008-09-25 at 05:10 AM.
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