Epiphany on 4E.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

So, I was playing my Xbox today, and was thinking about how Gauntlet Dark Legacy, would make and AMZAING 4e campaign.
Then it struck me. The game is practically tailored for such an adventure.

Nameless PCs stepping outside, met by HORDES of nameless, faceless MINIONS, confronted by the occasional BRUTE, ELITE and CONTROLLER. And at the end of most adventures, they would come up against an ELITE BRUTE, or even a UNIQUE MONSTER.* Right down to your abilites that can only be used so often.

I thought about how Gauntlet played, and came to find that our D&D game was running a lot like it, however with towns and more NPCs.

I know it's little more than your random, "4e is this" thread, but when I looked at it, D&D4e is almost exactly like Gauntlet. From your standard characters, the PHB races, to your "unlockables", the MM races. And as it follows the game well, it is VERY suited for miniatures battles.

*capatalised as they are the divining key words.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You know, this would probably be considered flamebaiting if you weren't so right.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

Yeah sorry, I didn't want it to be flame baiting.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yeah sorry, I didn't want it to be flame baiting.

No, it's not, I just found it hilarious.

[thegurullamen]

Never played Gauntlet, but I don't find this surprising. I've always been in the 4e-has-too-many-similarities-to-video-games camp. Someone having an epiphany along those lines while playing a video game sounds very reasonable.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

Never played Gauntlet, but I don't find this surprising. I've always been in the 4e-has-too-many-similarities-to-video-games camp. Someone having an epiphany along those lines while playing a video game sounds very reasonable.

Huwhaaaaaaaaat!? *jaw drops*
Best game ever. Should you EVER find yourself looking for a badass game to sit and play with three other friends this is a MUST!

[Crow]

At least 4e was compared to a good game for once.

[Hallavast]

So, I was playing my Xbox today, and was thinking about how Gauntlet Dark Legacy, would make and AMZAING 4e campaign.
Then it struck me. The game is practically tailored for such an adventure.

Nameless PCs stepping outside, met by HORDES of nameless, faceless MINIONS, confronted by the occasional BRUTE, ELITE and CONTROLLER. And at the end of most adventures, they would come up against an ELITE BRUTE, or even a UNIQUE MONSTER.* Right down to your abilites that can only be used so often.

I thought about how Gauntlet played, and came to find that our D&D game was running a lot like it, however with towns and more NPCs.

I know it's little more than your random, "4e is this" thread, but when I looked at it, D&D4e is almost exactly like Gauntlet. From your standard characters, the PHB races, to your "unlockables", the MM races. And as it follows the game well, it is VERY suited for miniatures battles.

*capatalised as they are the divining key words.

Congratulations. You've made me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

On the one hand. I'm amused thinking about what fans of the edition will come up with to contest your comparison. On the other hand, I'm saddened that D&D has come down to the level of a game like Gauntlet.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

Actually if your going to compare 4rth ed to a video game I'd prefer a reference to the Tales series. A cool series with a simple easy to understand combat system that's a lot of fun and allows a whole group of friends to battle monsters and save the world. (if you have enough controllers).

Also of note I remember growing up and at one point thinking gauntlet was such a rip off of D&D... it had most of the characters (warrior,elf,wizard) and the objective was basically to go around bashing monsters to get treasure. So yeah, a game inspired by a game that later people think a new version of the game looks a lot like... hmmm

And gauntlet would be a lot of fun as a combat intensive 4rth ed game if you cut some of the minions and made more fights with "bosses" the focus. Besides with that many minions your poor characters are bound to die, they may only have 1 hp but minions do decent damage if you check the MM. Your Green Warrior turns the corner by himself and gets surrounded by 20 goblin minions a few hits later (approx 50% hit for 4 damage each...if 8 can attack per round... 16 dam per round he kills say 2 /rd assuming good rolls he needs 10 rounds to win, so might take about 160 damage... he's still in deep do do without help and perhaps some choke points/healing/friends.

[Frosty]

I've only played Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, but yes...you are SOOOO right. The comparison even makes sense at the level of "every character works the same way but with differen power sources." Every just mashes the same few buttons and do damage to kill the enemies. Everyone has a weak and a strong attack that are at-wills, and a limited amount of Magic (they're like Encounter powers), no matter if one is a Blue Warrior...Red Wizard...or Black Jester.

[Skyserpent]

Haha. Okay, I can get behind that.

Still love 4e though.

[Myshlaevsky]

Man, I remember playing Gauntlet while pissed out my head at like 3 o'clock on a Wedensday morning. It was great fun. The four of us didn't know you could kill death so we went crazy whenever he appeared.

In any case... I can actually see where you are coming from. As the novelty value wears off I'm becoming less enamoured of 4e, though I still think it's good fun. I'm most concerned about replayability.

[Frosty]

After my current campaign ends I plan on running another 3.5 campaign. I feel 3.5 gives my players more room to be creative and personally expressive with their characters.

[SadisticFishing]

Actually, you can do a LOT with your characters.

And somehow, this doesn't at all scream "4e" to me. It's extremely easy for 3.5 games to be like this too.

GASP RPGs have things in common.

Anyways, I was baited to the flame ;)

I did do a weird facepalm/laugh/groan thing when I read the Gauntlet Legends thing. What an amazing (MULTIPLAYER ONLY) game!

[Myshlaevsky]

Actually, you can do a LOT with your characters.

And somehow, this doesn't at all scream "4e" to me. It's extremely easy for 3.5 games to be like this too.

GASP RPGs have things in common.

Anyways, I was baited to the flame ;)

I did do a weird facepalm/laugh/groan thing when I read the Gauntlet Legends thing. What an amazing (MULTIPLAYER ONLY) game!

Typically there are two paths, multiclassing and the interesting innovations that lie within. I did not previously compare 4e to 3.5e - indeed, no-one has except Frosty, though I can understand this is a response to that post. Nevertheless, I still have concerns with replayability. This is something that isn't (for me) currently shared with 3.5e, but it's also something that may change with time.

EDIT: My response is partially based on the fact that I believe this quote from your post:

GASP RPGs have things in common.

Refers soley to 3.5e vs. 4e. If you're calling Gauntlet an RPG, well...

[Jerthanis]

If you boil it down far enough, you can make comparisons between anything and anything else. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is a lot like Spider-Man because they both deal with issues of guilt and anger surrounding the loss of a father figure, have flamboyant personalities to hide their real vulnerabilities, and learn something more about themselves and being an adult and a complete human being through their life experiences.

Yes, D&D is like videogames. In both of them you fight monsters of varying strength, utilizing powers of your own as you go, many of which can only be used at certain intervals, and make progress usually marked by fighting harder enemies in different locales.

You know what, I just described Super Mario Brothers as accurately as I described Gauntlet, or D&D 4th edition... or D&D 3rd or 1st edition for that matter!

[Starsinger]

If you boil it down far enough, you can make comparisons between anything and anything else. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is a lot like Spider-Man because they both deal with issues of guilt and anger surrounding the loss of a father figure, have flamboyant personalities to hide their real vulnerabilities, and learn something more about themselves and being an adult and a complete human being through their life experiences.

Dang.. that's deep.

[Sinfire Titan]

Actually, you can do a LOT with your characters.

And somehow, this doesn't at all scream "4e" to me. It's extremely easy for 3.5 games to be like this too.

GASP RPGs have things in common.

Anyways, I was baited to the flame ;)

I did do a weird facepalm/laugh/groan thing when I read the Gauntlet Legends thing. What an amazing (MULTIPLAYER ONLY) game!

4E has everyone using the same combat system, just with different names for each ability. This is the exact same thing that Gauntlet does.

3.5 has 6 different systems built around a single system, all of which can vary wildly. Spellcasting and Psionics are the only two that are even remotely similar (note that I am lumping Shadowcaster in with Spellcasting, as Shadowcaster is simply a variant of the Sorcerer), as Incarnum, Bo9S, Binder, and Truenamer are all based around a different type of mechanic. None of them play exactly like each other though, which is why 3.5 is not Gauntlet.

[Myshlaevsky]

If you boil it down far enough, you can make comparisons between anything and anything else. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is a lot like Spider-Man because they both deal with issues of guilt and anger surrounding the loss of a father figure, have flamboyant personalities to hide their real vulnerabilities, and learn something more about themselves and being an adult and a complete human being through their life experiences.

Yes, D&D is like videogames. In both of them you fight monsters of varying strength, utilizing powers of your own as you go, many of which can only be used at certain intervals, and make progress usually marked by fighting harder enemies in different locales.

You know what, I just described Super Mario Brothers as accurately as I described Gauntlet, or D&D 4th edition... or D&D 3rd or 1st edition for that matter!

Some comparisons are more accurate than others though. The post above me is an entirely valid argument about why there is a greater similarity between Gauntlet and 4e and Gauntlet and 3.5e. They are not, however, the same game - and both are fun. Also, the 4e classes do not play exactly like each other, IMO, whereas the classes in Gauntlet do. They use the same mechanic, however.

@Starsinger: I shot you a PM asking if I could use your stat-swap rule for a submission to your Maptool game. Could you give me a response? Hammer-throwing Dwarven Ranger is what I'm thinking of.

[Tengu_temp]

3.5 has 6 different systems built around a single system, all of which can vary wildly. Spellcasting and Psionics are the only two that are even remotely similar (note that I am lumping Shadowcaster in with Spellcasting, as Shadowcaster is simply a variant of the Sorcerer), as Incarnum, Bo9S, Binder, and Truenamer are all based around a different type of mechanic. None of them play exactly like each other though, which is why 3.5 is not Gauntlet.

You're forgetting the seventh system, used by over 50% of the classes - Non-Casting:

--------------------
|Attack <--
|Defend
|Item
|Run
--------------------

[Myshlaevsky]

You're forgetting the seventh system, used by over 50% of the classes - Non-Casting:

--------------------
|Attack <--
|Defend
|Item
|Run
--------------------

[Sinfire Titan]

You're forgetting the seventh system, used by over 50% of the classes - Non-Casting:

--------------------
|Attack <--
|Defend
|Item
|Run
--------------------

As funny as that was, that is the system the other six are based off of. All characters use the Standard Action system, some just use it more than others (Fighters). Said characters also cannot bend reality over and f*** it on their own.

[Starbuck_II]

Dang.. that's deep.

Yeah, I mean, I've never thought about it, but Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is exactly like Spiderman (superhero Static Shock too but loosely). They do deal with guilt alot. They do learn things about themselves.

Dude, Spiderman is Will Smith!

[TwystidMynd]

4E has everyone using the same combat system, just with different names for each ability. This is the exact same thing that Gauntlet does.

3.5 has 6 different systems built around a single system, all of which can vary wildly. Spellcasting and Psionics are the only two that are even remotely similar (note that I am lumping Shadowcaster in with Spellcasting, as Shadowcaster is simply a variant of the Sorcerer), as Incarnum, Bo9S, Binder, and Truenamer are all based around a different type of mechanic. None of them play exactly like each other though, which is why 3.5 is not Gauntlet.

6 different systems that can all be summed up by a d20 being rolled to see IF you hit, and then either a) XdY to see how much damage you do or b) a status effect is inflicted.

[EvilElitest]

If you boil it down far enough, you can make comparisons between anything and anything else. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is a lot like Spider-Man because they both deal with issues of guilt and anger surrounding the loss of a father figure, have flamboyant personalities to hide their real vulnerabilities, and learn something more about themselves and being an adult and a complete human being through their life experiences.

Your evading the question. you can boil down any game to a video game experience, what makes 4E unique is that it is designed as such. I could play a gauntlet 3E game, but it isn't designed for it in the same way 4E is. Your just evading the question and trying to make a very round about argument.

Yes, D&D is like videogames. In both of them you fight monsters of varying strength, utilizing powers of your own as you go, many of which can only be used at certain intervals, and make progress usually marked by fighting harder enemies in different locales.

Except that isn't the quality of the video game that the OP is talking about and you know it.

You know what, I just described Super Mario Brothers as accurately as I described Gauntlet, or D&D 4th edition... or D&D 3rd or 1st edition for that matter!

Ok, how about addressing the actual issue


4E's style of play is very much like Guantlet, and since i'm one of the people who has been saying that 4E is like a video game (Not an MMO in particular) i'm shocked i didn't think about it.

It also reminds me of Baldur's gate, Dark Alliance actually
from
EE

[Artanis]

So, I was playing my Xbox today, and was thinking about how Gauntlet Dark Legacy, would make and AMZAING 4e campaign.
Then it struck me. The game is practically tailored for such an adventure.

*pulls out flamethrower*

Nameless PCs stepping outside, met by HORDES of nameless, faceless MINIONS, confronted by the occasional BRUTE, ELITE and CONTROLLER. And at the end of most adventures, they would come up against an ELITE BRUTE, or even a UNIQUE MONSTER.* Right down to your abilites that can only be used so often.

I thought about how Gauntlet played, and came to find that our D&D game was running a lot like it, however with towns and more NPCs.

I know it's little more than your random, "4e is this" thread, but when I looked at it, D&D4e is almost exactly like Gauntlet. From your standard characters, the PHB races, to your "unlockables", the MM races. And as it follows the game well, it is VERY suited for miniatures battles.

*capatalised as they are the divining key words.

Huh.

*puts away flamethrower*

That's actually a really good point. I would normally argue some of the finer points, but when I think about it, I really can see some real similarities to the last Gauntlet game I played (the first N64 one). I especially see how a 4e campaign could very easily be tailored to accentuate those similarities. If you invisioned the super-blasts and (maybe) magic potions as being like encounter powers and the really awesome items (like the kill-everything-in-its-path mega-arrow) as being like dailies...



However, this leaves me with the problem of having a fully-fueled flamethrower and nothing to use it on. I wonder if I can find a ".999... = 1" thread floating around somewhere.

[EvilElitest]

I'd suggest destroying all the bad Fan ficts in the world. And Dominic Deegan. Do the world a favor


Ironically, i think a 4E gauntlet game would attually be very fun. I'm just depressed about the implications
from
EE

[LibraryOgre]

It also reminds me of Baldur's gate, Dark Alliance actually
from
EE

That's because BG:DA is a very close relative of Gauntlet (though it probably more consciously imitated Diablo).

[Ecalsneerg]

Yeah, I mean, I've never thought about it, but Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is exactly like Spiderman (superhero Static Shock too but loosely). They do deal with guilt alot. They do learn things about themselves.

Dude, Spiderman is Will Smith!

Make me this movie now.

[Suzuro]

However, this leaves me with the problem of having a fully-fueled flamethrower and nothing to use it on. I wonder if I can find a ".999... = 1" thread floating around somewhere.

One time I was in calculus and I accidentally proved that two is equal to 64,000.....seven times.

-Suzuro